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RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/11/2014 12:45:17 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Years ago, states had large psych hospitals to house the mentally ill. Then it was declared illegal to keep them there and these people moved out. Now, there were supposed to be halfway houses to take them, but they never materialized. Plus, since they are ill, they won't show up at a clinic and take the meds that could help them become stable and able to learn new skills, assuming such education was offered.

The lack of unskilled jobs also affects this.
As does gentrification. When you take the poorest section of the city and offer funds to turn it into an A.I.R. in order to improve it, eventually the cost of housing goes up and those who were just able to stay housed in the very poor areas cannot afford to stay there, cannot afford higher rents, and cannot afford two months rent upfront.

Plus dual diagnosis is a bitch and nobody has a solution to that.

I know a lot of the causes, unfortunately I have no solutions.

However, of the men on the street, a remarkable percentage are vets. PTSD brings them to this.

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RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/11/2014 2:45:14 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Years ago, states had large psych hospitals to house the mentally ill. Then it was declared illegal to keep them there and these people moved out. Now, there were supposed to be halfway houses to take them, but they never materialized. Plus, since they are ill, they won't show up at a clinic and take the meds that could help them become stable and able to learn new skills, assuming such education was offered.

This flat out nails it.
We disgorged thousands of mentally unstable people onto the street,gave em a phone number and/or a (absurdly overloaded) case manager, and a scrip for their meds and said,"Fare thee well, Take care of yourselves and you'll be fine."
Somehow or the other, and I know this will come as a shock, that idea,yeah, it didn't work out so well.
I'm betting 1/2 the homeless, and this is a way conservative wager, in B-more have some sort of mental illness or the other and I'll also bet that's indicative of most major cities.
The way we treat our worst off citizens is utterly repellent and it comes with a staggering social cost.

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(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/11/2014 3:36:18 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

Years ago, states had large psych hospitals to house the mentally ill. Then it was declared illegal to keep them there and these people moved out. Now, there were supposed to be halfway houses to take them, but they never materialized. Plus, since they are ill, they won't show up at a clinic and take the meds that could help them become stable and able to learn new skills, assuming such education was offered.

This flat out nails it.
We disgorged thousands of mentally unstable people onto the street,gave em a phone number and/or a (absurdly overloaded) case manager, and a scrip for their meds and said,"Fare thee well, Take care of yourselves and you'll be fine."
Somehow or the other, and I know this will come as a shock, that idea,yeah, it didn't work out so well.
I'm betting 1/2 the homeless, and this is a way conservative wager, in B-more have some sort of mental illness or the other and I'll also bet that's indicative of most major cities.
The way we treat our worst off citizens is utterly repellent and it comes with a staggering social cost.

This, and sadly its not just a US thing.
Too large a population are being jailed because of their mental health issues and prison is the default "response".
Too many people getting shot by cops because they are not getting the care they need.
Its happening in the UK and Canada too

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/11/2014 5:29:12 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		However, if the person is not a danger to themselves or others, do we have the right to lock them up against their will? Using copious amounts of Thorazine to keep them sedated at all times? There's a reason the courts ruled against this.
And the 'treatment' people got was frequently nonexistent plus patients were routinely abused.

Remember the expose of Willowbrook and how our most fragile were treated? Wasn't any better.

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/11/2014 5:44:08 PM   
Rawni


Posts: 1175
Status: offline 		I see both sides of this and from a very personal view. My son improved a lot in the years I was teaching him to live again, how to take care of himself, etc. However, he still had the occasional hallucination, got confused and afraid and still wasn't speaking. He also had no control over anger and impulses and with some interference from daddy that showed up 23 years later and sister that tried to force daddy on mama... he was influenced and became a danger to me.

Adult protective services were called on me seeking revenge because I was taking my son out of the situation and moving him out of state. To protect both of us. I told them I was being set up and why and they agreed. They decided to protect us. Stating that my son knew his own mind and what he wanted to do, they said he didn't need a guardian and only needed someone like me to watch over him, pay the bills and make sure all went well.

How could it go well when he wanted to see them because they played Disneyland weekend with him, filled him with all sorts of bad stuff, food that made him hypoglycemic and suggestions about how things were not okay with mom. They promised him all they thought would motivate him and it did. He became dangerous to me when he would first return and then would calm down and say they were fucking with me. Then they would come take him again and he wanted to go, so I could not stop it.

After a number of injuries... nearly two years of torment, abuse and threats... I had to run.

My son, hordes things, hallucinates and is afraid. That is a bad mix. He has hurt me and my grandchild and still, they fucked with his mind and then took him home when I said no more.. leave me alone.

Now, they have a few choices. They can try to manage what they created, try to put him in a faculty which he will not agree to and then... he can try to live alone. My nightmare. I can really see him out on the streets and the potential for some pretty bad things. Him being abused or abusing someone else in fear. Right now I worry for my grandchildren and the day my family realizes what they have done.

Do I want him forced into a facility? No. Do I want him on the streets? No, but what is the answer? I was... for a while there. Until it became too unsafe. The thing I gave up all for, to keep him out of a facility blasted out of his mind like they had him and then strapped to a bed... could be his future if he isn't roaming somewhere.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/11/2014 5:45:35 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		No, its been disgusting for many many years, and the institutions were horrendous in many ways too. I worked in a few before Thatcher destroyed shit, and I didnt blame anyone that wanted to be in their own home rather than an institution.
We had a local guy tased six times and then killed on a bus... because the police had no clue on how to deal with him, well that and the cop was a total wanker. His crime? schizophrenia.




< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 1/11/2014 6:26:43 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/11/2014 6:07:33 PM   
youthinkso121


Posts: 73
Joined: 10/18/2013
Status: offline 		I only know the UK.
We closed down mental institutions, rightly, at the time they were horrific.

What we didn't do was recognise that some folk need to be locked up.

We have all seen cases, let out of prison, with no treatment. kill rape within 48 hours.


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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/11/2014 6:14:28 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Halfway houses with caseworkers are a much better idea. That way medication is not discontinued.

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/11/2014 6:21:01 PM   
youthinkso121


Posts: 73
Joined: 10/18/2013
Status: offline 		Medication, for some doesn't work. What the system did, was close down everything.

Some people should be locked up.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/11/2014 6:23:09 PM   
youthinkso121


Posts: 73
Joined: 10/18/2013
Status: offline 		And what this has to do with the original OP, ive no idea.

Should we be more tollerent??? NO

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/11/2014 6:31:43 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		its called thread drift....
Tolerance is way t0o hard for some people....
its a shame...

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/11/2014 6:44:39 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: youthinkso121

Medication, for some doesn't work. What the system did, was close down everything.

Some people should be locked up.


There used to be very few medication options and no, some people weren't helped.
Now the majority of people can have a much better life with medication than without it.

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/12/2014 4:58:25 AM   
thezeppo


Posts: 441
Joined: 11/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum


quote:

ORIGINAL: HipPoindexter

It is part of what I do for a living. Of the 55-60 hours a week I spend at work, probably 10-15 are spent interfacing with homeless shelters and other programs.
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

It's easy to discuss a issue. What are you doing about helping the homeless. How much time do you spend each month actually doing something positive to help them?

Just curious. BadOne




That really doesn't count in my book, after all you are getting paid to do it. How much time do you volunteer to causes that matter to you?

BadOne


I don't get how you could justify that assertion, at all. I don't think the people who are receiving help care whether or not the person helping is being paid. In my case I am paid for the work I do with vulnerable children, but I would get easily £5-10,000 a year more if I applied to the graduate program of any supermarket. It seems to be a popular opinion that people who work in the care sector should give of themselves selflessly and without reward, but it occurs to me that - as a society - we might fail less people if we focused on helping those who need it rather than arguing about what counts.

I don't mean this as an attack specifically against you, but rather the prevalent attitude that charity only counts if it comes with associated self-flagellation. I would argue that hipPoindexter works with people who have more immediate needs than the people I work with, and therefore the more time he spends doing that the better for the people he works with. If we can pay him then he has more time to work with those who need the help. Why would that not count?

Edited for clarity

< Message edited by thezeppo -- 1/12/2014 5:01:41 AM >

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RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/12/2014 5:34:25 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Remember the expose of Willowbrook and how our most fragile were treated? Wasn't any better.


The setting for Titicut Follies is through my woods. My brother spent seven months there last year. While I'm sure many things have improved, he didn't get any therapy and was bullied by the guards.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 2/1/2014 7:31:21 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline 		I was houseless for about a year. It was not by choice. But, it was not so bad. To me not being religious, all the shelters (most) were VERY religious. This was always a pain in the ass. I used to say and mean "The world was my home". So, I described it as houselessness. On freezing cold days there was always banks that had enclosed and heated ATMS, office buildings, train stations or Kiosks. It is pretty weird and strange........ I have not thought about it in a long time. The hardest thing was "where the hell do I put my stuff". Even when I found a place that would take me for a day or two, I had to take my stuff with me during the day. I never had much, neither did anyone I knew. But still it was MY stuff.... Anyone would steal it all the time. There were always places for food, showers, washing clothes was a bitch sometimes.

Now, go figure I own a house......... I am also looking to get a rental soon.

Oddly, I am not empathetic to houseless people. I mean I ALWAYS give them money. But, beyond that......

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RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 2/5/2014 5:20:54 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Meh, the "war on poverty" was about federal control of the money.
Public Health Service was gutted and all that remains are the Indian Agency clinics.
Department of Education was disbanded.

Health Education & Welfare was formed. Instead of having free clinics, we have "medicaid" where huge amounts of time and money are spent to disallow basic medical care for the majority. Education has declined to the point that employers have to require a two year degree in order to assure people can actually count change. And, if you are needing temporary economic assistance, forget it. You will spend so much time jumping through bureaucratic hoops you will never find a real job.

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Profile   Post #: 76
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