Ah the good news piles up (Full Version)

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Phydeaux -> Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 12:33:48 AM)

Net Neutrality.. struck down.

A good day, indeed.




Rule -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 2:26:34 AM)

Would you repeat that? Most of the letters have fallen away...




DomKen -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 2:59:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Net Neutrality.. struck down.

A good day, indeed.

Do you have any idea what you're writing about?




evesgrden -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 5:24:20 AM)

Ken and Rule... perhaps you should look up net neutrality before jumping to the conclusion that there's something wrong with the message or the messenger.

Think first, type later.

Color me radical.




joether -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 5:39:31 AM)

As usual, Phydeaux does not know how to provide a link (even though he does) in any discussion....

But one source of news....

This does not fair well for us mere citizens of the United States. That large corporations can at their decision, restrict parts of the internet as they choose. Just think of how some Fundie Christian would restrict BDSM sites (like this one) if they ever got to the helm of a company like that? Its a form of tyranny just waiting to happen! The FCC was pushing for net neutrality as were many other groups and organizations. Which is why a net neutrality law would need to be pass through Congress. Only problem is, when Congress was working for America, this would rank as a low priority. With Congress D.O.A. for next session, I doubt something like this would see the light of day. If this matter goes to the US Supreme Court, I have no faith it'll pass in favor of the American people but rather to corporations.




Phydeaux -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 6:45:01 AM)

Are you really so uninformed that you need help to find a source that says Net Neutrality was struck down.

Really?

As opposed to joether, I'm against government regulation of the internet.

But even separate from that question - if I am a backbone provider - and I'm going to spend billions of dollars rolling out cell phone towers or other technologies - I'd like to know that I can restrict traffic in any way I like, for any purpose I like.

Take for example smart phones. Huge consumers of bandwidth on cell towers. If I want to prioritize phone traffic (911 calls) at the expense of you streaming a movie - why is that a bad thing?

More or less this was just a naked power grab (again), the FCC asserting it had the right to regulate internet communications where the statutory language says no such thing.

Sadly, that part of the case they won.




mnottertail -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 7:00:21 AM)

But, in the opinion the good news is, that if they treat the fuckers as common carriers (which they are authorized to do) then they are inherently authorized to impose net neutrality!!!!!!


That's a fuckin DUUUUUUUUUUHHHHH!!  Internet will be heavily regulated, can't see anything wrong with that.  win-win for the American citizenry.




Moonhead -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 7:06:35 AM)

How strange.
I thought the internet was a lot freer and far more neutral in the States than it was here, where the whole country has been banned from looking at sites devoted to sexual deviancy?




Phydeaux -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 7:14:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

But, in the opinion the good news is, that if they treat the fuckers as common carriers (which they are authorized to do) then they are inherently authorized to impose net neutrality!!!!!!


Quote it. Quote the statute that gives them the authority.

In the meantime, heres a link http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40234.pdf

Surely you are not suggesting that its a good thing that government agencies can give themselves sweeping authority that has not been passed into law by the congress & the president?




mnottertail -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 7:20:44 AM)

Are you really so uninformed that you need help to find a source that says the FCC are authorized by law to classify ISPs as common carriers? 

Really?





Phydeaux -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 7:24:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Are you really so uninformed that you need help to find a source that says the FCC are authorized by law to classify ISPs as common carriers? 

Really?




Well, apparently Comcast (sued and won)
and Verizon (sued and won)
couldn't find such authorization. Nor FCC commission MacDowell. So it doesn't surprise me you can find or post such a link either.

The bottom line: After 2008 Obummer stuffed the FCC with cronies. Said cronies tried to accomplish by dictat what the Ocorrupt administration could not accomplish statutorily.

And, once again, Ocorrupt has gotten spanked.




mnottertail -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 7:42:08 AM)

Yeah, that fuckin asswipe is as worthless and useless as any of your untutored opinions to date.

Since you are incapable of comprehension, cogitation, and even simple working knowledge in this matter, lets go ahead and look at the case:

http://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/3AF8B4D938CDEEA685257C6000532062/$file/11-1355-1474943.pdf

There it is, and we await your vermiformous antics in interpreting page 4 in some way that it does not state what it states.

<snip>
it is popularly known, “net neutrality.” In Comcast Corp. v.
FCC, 600 F.3d 642 (D.C. Cir. 2010), we held that the
Commission had failed to cite any statutory authority that
would justify its order compelling a broadband provider to
adhere to open network management practices. AfterComcast,
the Commission issued the order challenged here—In re
Preserving the Open Internet, 25 F.C.C.R. 17905 (2010) (“the
Open Internet Order”)—which imposes disclosure,
anti-blocking, and anti-discrimination requirements on
broadband providers. As we explain in this opinion, the
Commission has established that section 706 of the
Telecommunications Act of 1996 vests it with affirmative
authority to enact measures encouraging the deployment of
broadband infrastructure. The Commission, we further hold,
has reasonably interpreted section 706 to empower it to
promulgate rules governing broadband providers’ treatment of
Internet traffic, and its justification for the specific rules at
issue here—that they will preserve and facilitate the “virtuous
circle” of innovation that has driven the explosive growth of
the Internet—is reasonable and supported by substantial
evidence. That said, even though the Commission has general
authority to regulate in this arena, it may not impose
requirements that contravene express statutory mandates.
Given that the Commission has chosen to classify broadband
providers in a manner that exempts them from treatment as
common carriers, the Communications Act expressly prohibits
the Commission from nonetheless regulating them as such.
Because the Commission has failed to establish that the
anti-discrimination and anti-blocking rules do not impose per
se common carrier obligations, we vacate those portions of the
Open Internet Order.

</snip>

We await massive spouting geysers of stupidity.




Tkman117 -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 8:31:13 AM)

FR

For a guy who supports "free trade" Phydeaux, it's a little hypocritical to say net neutrality is a bad thing when it has the same potential to stimulate growth and development in ways similar to a "free market." The music industry, the video industry, etc. If a carrier discriminates by banning all copyrighted content, then that removes a huge chunk of the internet (youtube), which is a great source of entertainment and revenue. Or they could ban youtube and extort you by forcing you to pay extra to have access to said website. (worst case scenario)

It can be dangerous, an example being our net neutrality issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_in_Canada , where you can read that Telus has censored web pages critical of it, among other issues. Canada is known for it's incredibly high phone prices, and the last thing you people need is to follow our lead and let industries extort you over needed services.




mnottertail -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 8:34:37 AM)

and thats why I say classify them as common carriers and bear down on their ass.




EdBowie -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 9:46:59 AM)

It's not about porn, it's about pricing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

How strange.
I thought the internet was a lot freer and far more neutral in the States than it was here, where the whole country has been banned from looking at sites devoted to sexual deviancy?





DesideriScuri -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 10:33:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
FR
For a guy who supports "free trade" Phydeaux, it's a little hypocritical to say net neutrality is a bad thing when it has the same potential to stimulate growth and development in ways similar to a "free market." The music industry, the video industry, etc. If a carrier discriminates by banning all copyrighted content, then that removes a huge chunk of the internet (youtube), which is a great source of entertainment and revenue. Or they could ban youtube and extort you by forcing you to pay extra to have access to said website. (worst case scenario)
It can be dangerous, an example being our net neutrality issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_in_Canada , where you can read that Telus has censored web pages critical of it, among other issues. Canada is known for it's incredibly high phone prices, and the last thing you people need is to follow our lead and let industries extort you over needed services.


Right, because there won't be any other options if a carrier decided to ban copyright material over it's lines. That carrier won't see a change in it's subscribers. I'm all for letting a carrier make those decisions. The Market will decide what the consequences are, good or bad.




Tkman117 -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 10:38:05 AM)

But in Canada, the evidence is there that the market hasn't made those decisions, or that they have and it hasn't changed anything. Prices are sky high compared to other countries. How can the market decide when the companies all know they got people by the balls with a service they need a lot of the time?




mnottertail -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 10:45:56 AM)

Yeah, that free market talk and the efficiency of the market and all that shit, no matter how many times those unconsidered assumptions have been repeatedly disproven by real events...continues on in the lore of the knaves that vend it and the fools that gulp it.





Lucylastic -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 10:53:58 AM)

anyone who is happy bout it being dead must have shares or be a complete moron. Probably both

The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit (commonly known as the D.C. Circuit Court), partly struck down the Federal Communication Commission's 2010 Open Internet Order, which established net neutrality for wired broadband service, on the grounds that the FCC's justification for the order didn't make legal sense.

The ruling in the case, in which Verizon challenged the FCC, does not overturn net neutrality. It also rejects Verizon's argument that the FCC has no authority whatsoever to regulate broadband Internet access. (One justice dissented from the two others and accepted Verizon's argument.)

"The Commission," the decision reads, "has reasonably interpreted section 706 [of the Telecommunication Act of 1996] to empower it to promulgate rules governing broadband providers' treatment of Internet traffic, and its justification for the specific rules at issue here — that they will preserve and facilitate the 'virtuous circle' of innovation that has driven the explosive growth of the Internet — is reasonable and supported by substantial evidence."

But the decision makes clear that the FCC will have to redefine how it classifies broadband Internet service providers (ISPs) before it can impose net neutrality on them — a move that may put the FCC on a collision course with Congress.

FOr broadband here we have bell, rogers, and isps that use the two main backbones.
THey are fucking everyone they can...this is the site I get most of my info regarding the battles....

https://openmedia.ca/





DesideriScuri -> RE: Ah the good news piles up (1/15/2014 12:02:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
But in Canada, the evidence is there that the market hasn't made those decisions, or that they have and it hasn't changed anything. Prices are sky high compared to other countries. How can the market decide when the companies all know they got people by the balls with a service they need a lot of the time?


If it's really a free market, then there will be an influx of entrepreneurs interested in making the profits the current companies are enjoying. If there aren't profits to be had, there won't be an influx of entrepreneurs. If there are barriers preventing the influx of entrepreneurs, then, you have to look into removing those barriers.

The only way the companies can have anyone by the balls is if there aren't any other options (or that is the service they offer [:D]). If there aren't any other options, why aren't there any other options? What is preventing entrepreneurs from starting up companies to provide options?




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