An end to a proud history.

An end to a proud history. (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 3:47:32 AM)
I understand it will be reformed, but still. RAF 617 squadron flew its final mission before being disbanded today in Afghanistan. Granted I am an American, and granted, I was not even American Air Force but US Army, I still know the importance that 617 Squadron is in history. Aprés moi, le déluge

DaddySatyr -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 3:55:07 AM)
Yes! Let's honor an Air Squadron led by a racist! Well played! From the Wiki: " The original commander of 617 Squadron, Wing Commander Guy Gibson, was awarded the Victoria Cross for his part in the raid. Guy Gibson also owned a black Labrador named N_ _ _ _r, who was the mascot of the squadron for some time."

thishereboi -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 5:33:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Yes! Let's honor an Air Squadron led by a racist! Well played! From the Wiki: " The original commander of 617 Squadron, Wing Commander Guy Gibson, was awarded the Victoria Cross for his part in the raid. Guy Gibson also owned a black Labrador named N_ _ _ _r, who was the mascot of the squadron for some time." You forgot to mention that he died over 50 years ago but then your little snipe about being "led by a racist" wouldn't make as much sense so I understand the reasoning. Much better to imply it is going on today.

mnottertail -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 5:35:13 AM)
Oh, I dunno, a great deal of our states still wave a confederate flag. That term was considered socially acceptable in England until sometime after the 1950's. As here the term is a corrosive of the word niger or negro. Couple reasons, they didn't have quite the violence and wantonly despicable treatment of humans, and they wised up way before we have. None of that is defensible, but it is not something unique to Guy Gibson. We would have to send up to public disgust Ibrahim Lincoln and the other republican founders for the same reason. As well as many on the way, to this day.

Politesub53 -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 5:38:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Yes! Let's honor an Air Squadron led by a racist! Well played! From the Wiki: " The original commander of 617 Squadron, Wing Commander Guy Gibson, was awarded the Victoria Cross for his part in the raid. Guy Gibson also owned a black Labrador named N_ _ _ _r, who was the mascot of the squadron for some time." Possibly the most ignorant and unsubstantiated bullshit you have ever come out with. Next you will be calling anyone using the word black as racist.

Politesub53 -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 5:42:01 AM)
JLF......... 617 has only been disbanded on a temporary basis. The squadron is being reformed in 2016 as our first F35 sqaudron.

mnottertail -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 5:43:05 AM)
Well, we still use African-American here, as if these generations after generations of blacks still ain't americans, haven't died en masse for our country, invented and improved things for the whole of America and everything else that humans do. No idea what we call cubans or haitians or dominicans and so on. There are a few (and very few) where amassing them with others you can call them people of color (you need colour there) but that's about it.

Owner59 -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 6:44:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Yes! Let's honor an Air Squadron led by a racist! Well played! From the Wiki: " The original commander of 617 Squadron, Wing Commander Guy Gibson, was awarded the Victoria Cross for his part in the raid. Guy Gibson also owned a black Labrador named N_ _ _ _r, who was the mascot of the squadron for some time." You forgot to mention that he died over 50 years ago but then your little snipe about being "led by a racist" wouldn't make as much sense so I understand the reasoning. Much better to imply it is going on today. This rightist once called me a race traitor....Coming from it.....that was a compliment.....

MyMasterStephen -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 6:51:58 AM)
What I find truly offensive is the edit of the film where the dog's name is changed to "Digger". The name may be controversial today in some quarters, but censoring history...?

thishereboi -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 6:59:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Yes! Let's honor an Air Squadron led by a racist! Well played! From the Wiki: " The original commander of 617 Squadron, Wing Commander Guy Gibson, was awarded the Victoria Cross for his part in the raid. Guy Gibson also owned a black Labrador named N_ _ _ _r, who was the mascot of the squadron for some time." You forgot to mention that he died over 50 years ago but then your little snipe about being "led by a racist" wouldn't make as much sense so I understand the reasoning. Much better to imply it is going on today. This rightist once called me a race traitor....Coming from it.....that was a compliment..... Not sure why he would have done that. I have read a lot of posts from you and I have never gotten that impression. Thinking about it though I did have a customer make a comment that all democrats hate white people. Not sure what his logic was because at that point I threw him out of the store, sorry but I couldn't listen to him any more that day. Now if you were ignorant enough to believe that asswipe you would also have to conclude that any whites on the left are traitors, kinda like the left bigots keep saying that if you are gay and a conservative you are a traitor to gays. Now as I said you have never posted anything that would imply you were a race traitor but it could be that he is assuming, ya know, if it walks like a democrat, talks like a democrat, must be a democrat. Now where have I heard that line lately [8D]

Dvr22999874 -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 7:11:25 AM)
I agree with you totally MyMasterStephen............It's a wonder the dog's name hasn't been edited out of all the videos and DVD's available in stores etc., of the original movie............ P.C. gone mad. I saw the original a couple of times, starring Richard Todd and I think I'll satisfy myself with that. I think that after seeing 'Titanic' and comparing it very badly with 'A Night To Remember', I'll leave the new version of 'The Dam Busters' well alone.

Owner59 -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 7:49:03 AM)
The only acceptable and deniable way to exploit racial fear and loathing today,is by subtalling charging someone with or suggesting that they are being a racist.....or race traitor etc. Of course there`s no basis,evidence or connection to reality showing that`s true but that`s not the point...The point is to degrade, insult and inject poison into the room.... One example..... of many (sorry you`ll have to find your own examples of liberals race baiting).....was bratbarts attack on the NAACP, clipping and splicing a video of a NAACP executives to make it appear like she had discriminated against a white farmer(in his application for a mortgage rescue), after he had admitted to being a white racist to her. When in fact the opposite was true.....that she had approved the farmers loan in spite of the farmers admissions. Another was a similarly edited vid from bratbart, suggesting that the Obama admin had dropped charges against "the new black panthers because.....you know......the President is a racist.... Again,zero connection to reality and again....the point isn`t to be factual but to be as ugly and as disgusting as possible.... Long ago, but not all that long ago, it wasn`t hidden or nuanced. The n-word was often used in public. You can`t use the n-word now a-days, as a insult, not without great cost personally or professionally. A bigot, or bigots at websites like bratbart can though suggest that the President is a racist and pretty much get away with it. And bigots on web-forums like this one can suggest I`m a race traitor b/c they`re cowards hiding behind their computers.... Another way to dick-punch progressives and normal folks who think, is to suggest America is racism free b/c we elected a Black(half white/black) president. A year or so ago I needed a ride to Newark airport and my usual ride was busy so he hooked me up with a friend to drive me and earn the 50 bucks. We took short cuts on the town roads b/c the highway was jammed and I was late. Many of those towns near the airport air industrialish, poor and black/Hispanic. As we rolled through, the driver kept using the term "brown-town".....like it was funny and ok and acceptable. The 1st couple of times I ignored him. Then by about the 5th or 6th use of the term, I told not to say that again or I`d slap him around....right there in his car....The look of surprise and complete silence by the guy told me I got his attention....plus he wanted his 50 bucks.....so he behaved. Glen beck.....is the republican bigot`s inspiration and support group.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K8R2PDmbmA

MrRodgers -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 8:21:33 AM)
There have been many bigots and racists in history. History is full of figures that are still celebrated despite the bigotry and racism. This does not detract from any heroism as displayed particularly in times of war.

PeonForHer -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 8:49:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MyMasterStephen What I find truly offensive is the edit of the film where the dog's name is changed to "Digger". The name may be controversial today in some quarters, but censoring history...? I think it was that or never show the film again, Stephen. Really, I can't see any TV programmer putting on a film in which a dog is cheerfully called 'N****r' these days. Ideas of what's decent change - and that's not considered decent any more.

jlf1961 -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 9:22:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 JLF......... 617 has only been disbanded on a temporary basis. The squadron is being reformed in 2016 as our first F35 sqaudron. I understand that, however, there is a break in continuity. That is the point I am making. As for the racist crap, my mother had a black chow named Sambo. It was given to her when it was a pup, from an African American family. The husband was in the Air Force and was being transferred overseas and could not take the dog. The name on his registration papers with the AKC was "Little Black Sambo" as he was the runt of the litter. This is to pay tribute to a squadron with a long distinguished history, not to discuss the character of its initial commander. There have been units in the US military that were commanded by racists and worse. One of the Canadian Air Force's highest ranking officers was a serial killer for christ sake. We honor those units, I mean hell the Native American code talkers used in ww2 were not considered in the military and not honored till years after their service.

Owner59 -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 9:48:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 JLF......... 617 has only been disbanded on a temporary basis. The squadron is being reformed in 2016 as our first F35 sqaudron. I understand that, however, there is a break in continuity. That is the point I am making. As for the racist crap, my mother had a black chow named Sambo. It was given to her when it was a pup, from an African American family. The husband was in the Air Force and was being transferred overseas and could not take the dog. The name on his registration papers with the AKC was "Little Black Sambo" as he was the runt of the litter. This is to pay tribute to a squadron with a long distinguished history, not to discuss the character of its initial commander. There have been units in the US military that were commanded by racists and worse. One of the Canadian Air Force's highest ranking officers was a serial killer for christ sake. We honor those units, I mean hell the Native American code talkers used in ww2 were not considered in the military and not honored till years after their service. There`s been quite an adjustment, sometimes awkward away from the more grotesque racial symbolism. If I`m not mistaken, Bill Cosby bought all the "little rascals" episodes/rights for the express purpose of never letting them be aired again And there`s been an inclusion of non-whites in advertisement over the last ten years including the Old Spice guy and "The Most Interesting Man In The World" guy...Both ads by the same add firm.

Lucylastic -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 12:22:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Yes! Let's honor an Air Squadron led by a racist! Well played! From the Wiki: " The original commander of 617 Squadron, Wing Commander Guy Gibson, was awarded the Victoria Cross for his part in the raid. Guy Gibson also owned a black Labrador named N_ _ _ _r, who was the mascot of the squadron for some time." Possibly the most ignorant and unsubstantiated bullshit you have ever come out with. Next you will be calling anyone using the word black as racist. hes trolling...give it the contempt it deserves.

PeonForHer -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 1:58:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874 I agree with you totally MyMasterStephen............It's a wonder the dog's name hasn't been edited out of all the videos and DVD's available in stores etc., of the original movie............ P.C. gone mad. I saw the original a couple of times, starring Richard Todd and I think I'll satisfy myself with that. I think that after seeing 'Titanic' and comparing it very badly with 'A Night To Remember', I'll leave the new version of 'The Dam Busters' well alone. I'd certainly watch a new version of The Dam Busters. When I watched it with my nieces and nephews last time it was on, they burst out laughing when the first dam blew up. Jeez. I had to admit, I could have done special effects better than that myself with a felt tip pen and some talcum powder. In general, and getting back to the OP: Every regiment, every ship and every squadron in the UK's military is going to have had its proud moments in history. But times change and the nature of military requirements change along with them. Hell, I remember once reading about how difficult it was to get rid of horses in the military, years after it was blindingly obvious that they were no longer useful.

Politesub53 -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 4:12:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Possibly the most ignorant and unsubstantiated bullshit you have ever come out with. Next you will be calling anyone using the word black as racist. hes trolling...give it the contempt it deserves. What ...... and get another short holiday [8D]

Marc2b -> RE: An end to a proud history. (1/30/2014 4:13:27 PM)
quote: Yes! Let's honor an Air Squadron led by a racist! Well played! From the Wiki: " The original commander of 617 Squadron, Wing Commander Guy Gibson, was awarded the Victoria Cross for his part in the raid. Guy Gibson also owned a black Labrador named N_ _ _ _r, who was the mascot of the squadron for some time." You're a Pink Floyd fan, aren't you?

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