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RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/6/2014 5:49:40 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Whee, this executivising is easy

Fear not! The Democrat Utopia is on the horizon!

Reminds me of the Dennis Leary rant in Demolition Man...

"I've seen the future. You know what it is? It's a 47 year old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas drinking a banana-broccoli shake singing "I'm an Oscar-Meyer wiener".



As opposed to a Republican utopia? No health care for the poor, only acceptable religion in christian, civil rights determined by the bible, no welfare of any kind, no minimum wage, women having no choice about their reproductive health, a new theocracy in power and everyone forced to worship at the foot of St Ronnie statues.

Since I dont like either option, I think anarchy would be better, it sure seems to be working in Somalia.



You would probably get a lot farther if you didn't insist on lying in your posts. Why do some of the liberals have such a problem differentiating between wanting to control something and wanting to do away with it entirely? For example A conservative can say they want "less government" and the liberal hears "no government" Perhaps if they weren't in such a hurry to paint the other side as evil they would take the time to listen to what they are actually saying.

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RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/6/2014 6:34:22 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
His signing statement attached to the defense authorization in 2008 amongst many others.


"Amongst many others" and nary a cite.

Wonderful.


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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/6/2014 6:35:39 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Yeah. It's been a problem for a while.
Originally, Congress had the power to enact bills, while the President did nothing more than sign or veto. Slowly, over the years, the Executive branch has become more powerful while Congress has become increasingly impotent. For me, the low point was when Nixon created the concept of "executive privilege", which basically means that the President has the ability to declare himself above the law.


Didn't seem to work too well for Nixon, though...


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What I support:

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  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/6/2014 6:47:12 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
His signing statement attached to the defense authorization in 2008 amongst many others.


"Amongst many others" and nary a cite.

Wonderful.


I gave you one.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/6/2014 7:02:09 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
His signing statement attached to the defense authorization in 2008 amongst many others.

"Amongst many others" and nary a cite.
Wonderful.

I gave you one.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2008#Signing_statement
    quote:

    In signing the law, the Bush administration continues its use of the signing statement to object to parts of laws it views as conflicting with what it alleges are the constitutional powers of the unitary executive, especially as they relate to national defense and the war in Iraq.[1] The following Sections of the law referenced in the signing statement are listed, along with the possible impact of being mentioned in the signing statement:
  • Section 841: May reduce oversight of contractual abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan.
  • Section 846: Possibly limits protection to contractor employees when disclosing improper actions of the employer.
  • Section 1079: Could limit how much intelligence information Congress can demand from intelligence officials.
  • Section 1222: May limit Congressional oversight in the permanent establishment of U.S. military bases or the use of government funds to control oil resources in Iraq.


That's what the Left were screaming about? LMFAO!!

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=76389
    quote:

    Today, I have signed into law H.R. 4986, the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008. The Act authorizes funding for the defense of the United States and its interests abroad, for military construction, and for national security-related energy programs.
    Provisions of the Act, including sections 841, 846, 1079, and 1222, purport to impose requirements that could inhibit the President's ability to carry out his constitutional obligations to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, to protect national security, to supervise the executive branch, and to execute his authority as Commander in Chief. The executive branch shall construe such provisions in a manner consistent with the constitutional authority of the President.

    GEORGE W. BUSH

    The White House,
    January 28, 2008.


I sure hope W got a lot of use out of that, in his last year in office.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/6/2014 7:07:17 AM   
GoddessManko


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Yachtie, why on earth would you think executive orders control anything outside of the Federal Government?
Civics anyone? :)


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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/6/2014 7:10:15 AM   
DomKen


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So when W specifically writes that he and Halliburton are above the law its ok with righties but when Obama tries to give federal contractors a raise its the end of the Republic...

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/6/2014 11:30:21 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
So when W specifically writes that he and Halliburton are above the law its ok with righties but when Obama tries to give federal contractors a raise its the end of the Republic...


Specifically written? Where?

Was it in the part about the Constitutional authority of the President? That part?

Where was it claimed that Obama mandating contractors get pay at least $10.10/hr. (that was the minimum wage specified, right?) for new government contracts is the "end of the Republic?"

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/31/statement-president-hr-1540
    quote:

    Today I have signed into law H.R. 1540, the "National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012." I have signed the Act chiefly because it authorizes funding for the defense of the United States and its interests abroad, crucial services for service members and their families, and vital national security programs that must be renewed. In hundreds of separate sections totaling over 500 pages, the Act also contains critical Administration initiatives to control the spiraling health care costs of the Department of Defense (DoD), to develop counterterrorism initiatives abroad, to build the security capacity of key partners, to modernize the force, and to boost the efficiency and effectiveness of military operations worldwide.

    The fact that I support this bill as a whole does not mean I agree with everything in it. In particular, I have signed this bill despite having serious reservations with certain provisions that regulate the detention, interrogation, and prosecution of suspected terrorists. Over the last several years, my Administration has developed an effective, sustainable framework for the detention, interrogation and trial of suspected terrorists that allows us to maximize both our ability to collect intelligence and to incapacitate dangerous individuals in rapidly developing situations, and the results we have achieved are undeniable. Our success against al-Qa'ida and its affiliates and adherents has derived in significant measure from providing our counterterrorism professionals with the clarity and flexibility they need to adapt to changing circumstances and to utilize whichever authorities best protect the American people, and our accomplishments have respected the values that make our country an example for the world.

    Against that record of success, some in Congress continue to insist upon restricting the options available to our counterterrorism professionals and interfering with the very operations that have kept us safe. My Administration has consistently opposed such measures. Ultimately, I decided to sign this bill not only because of the critically important services it provides for our forces and their families and the national security programs it authorizes, but also because the Congress revised provisions that otherwise would have jeopardized the safety, security, and liberty of the American people. Moving forward, my Administration will interpret and implement the provisions described below in a manner that best preserves the flexibility on which our safety depends and upholds the values on which this country was founded.

    Section 1021 affirms the executive branch's authority to detain persons covered by the 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) (Public Law 107-40; 50 U.S.C. 1541 note). This section breaks no new ground and is unnecessary. The authority it describes was included in the 2001 AUMF, as recognized by the Supreme Court and confirmed through lower court decisions since then. Two critical limitations in section 1021 confirm that it solely codifies established authorities. First, under section 1021(d), the bill does not "limit or expand the authority of the President or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force." Second, under section 1021(e), the bill may not be construed to affect any "existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States." My Administration strongly supported the inclusion of these limitations in order to make clear beyond doubt that the legislation does nothing more than confirm authorities that the Federal courts have recognized as lawful under the 2001 AUMF. Moreover, I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a Nation. My Administration will interpret section 1021 in a manner that ensures that any detention it authorizes complies with the Constitution, the laws of war, and all other applicable law.

    Section 1022 seeks to require military custody for a narrow category of non-citizen detainees who are "captured in the course of hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force." This section is ill-conceived and will do nothing to improve the security of the United States. The executive branch already has the authority to detain in military custody those members of al-Qa'ida who are captured in the course of hostilities authorized by the AUMF, and as Commander in Chief I have directed the military to do so where appropriate. I reject any approach that would mandate military custody where law enforcement provides the best method of incapacitating a terrorist threat. While section 1022 is unnecessary and has the potential to create uncertainty, I have signed the bill because I believe that this section can be interpreted and applied in a manner that avoids undue harm to our current operations.

    I have concluded that section 1022 provides the minimally acceptable amount of flexibility to protect national security. Specifically, I have signed this bill on the understanding that section 1022 provides the executive branch with broad authority to determine how best to implement it, and with the full and unencumbered ability to waive any military custody requirement, including the option of waiving appropriate categories of cases when doing so is in the national security interests of the United States. As my Administration has made clear, the only responsible way to combat the threat al-Qa'ida poses is to remain relentlessly practical, guided by the factual and legal complexities of each case and the relative strengths and weaknesses of each system. Otherwise, investigations could be compromised, our authorities to hold dangerous individuals could be jeopardized, and intelligence could be lost. I will not tolerate that result, and under no circumstances will my Administration accept or adhere to a rigid across-the-board requirement for military detention. I will therefore interpret and implement section 1022 in the manner that best preserves the same flexible approach that has served us so well for the past 3 years and that protects the ability of law enforcement professionals to obtain the evidence and cooperation they need to protect the Nation.

    My Administration will design the implementation procedures authorized by section 1022(c) to provide the maximum measure of flexibility and clarity to our counterterrorism professionals permissible under law. And I will exercise all of my constitutional authorities as Chief Executive and Commander in Chief if those procedures fall short, including but not limited to seeking the revision or repeal of provisions should they prove to be unworkable.

    Sections 1023-1025 needlessly interfere with the executive branch's processes for reviewing the status of detainees. Going forward, consistent with congressional intent as detailed in the Conference Report, my Administration will interpret section 1024 as granting the Secretary of Defense broad discretion to determine what detainee status determinations in Afghanistan are subject to the requirements of this section.

    Sections 1026-1028 continue unwise funding restrictions that curtail options available to the executive branch. Section 1027 renews the bar against using appropriated funds for fiscal year 2012 to transfer Guantanamo detainees into the United States for any purpose. I continue to oppose this provision, which intrudes upon critical executive branch authority to determine when and where to prosecute Guantanamo detainees, based on the facts and the circumstances of each case and our national security interests. For decades, Republican and Democratic administrations have successfully prosecuted hundreds of terrorists in Federal court. Those prosecutions are a legitimate, effective, and powerful tool in our efforts to protect the Nation. Removing that tool from the executive branch does not serve our national security. Moreover, this intrusion would, under certain circumstances, violate constitutional separation of powers principles.

    Section 1028 modifies but fundamentally maintains unwarranted restrictions on the executive branch's authority to transfer detainees to a foreign country. This hinders the executive's ability to carry out its military, national security, and foreign relations activities and like section 1027, would, under certain circumstances, violate constitutional separation of powers principles. The executive branch must have the flexibility to act swiftly in conducting negotiations with foreign countries regarding the circumstances of detainee transfers. In the event that the statutory restrictions in sections 1027 and 1028 operate in a manner that violates constitutional separation of powers principles, my Administration will interpret them to avoid the constitutional conflict.

    Section 1029 requires that the Attorney General consult with the Director of National Intelligence and Secretary of Defense prior to filing criminal charges against or seeking an indictment of certain individuals. I sign this based on the understanding that apart from detainees held by the military outside of the United States under the 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force, the provision applies only to those individuals who have been determined to be covered persons under section 1022 before the Justice Department files charges or seeks an indictment. Notwithstanding that limitation, this provision represents an intrusion into the functions and prerogatives of the Department of Justice and offends the longstanding legal tradition that decisions regarding criminal prosecutions should be vested with the Attorney General free from outside interference. Moreover, section 1029 could impede flexibility and hinder exigent operational judgments in a manner that damages our security. My Administration will interpret and implement section 1029 in a manner that preserves the operational flexibility of our counterterrorism and law enforcement professionals, limits delays in the investigative process, ensures that critical executive branch functions are not inhibited, and preserves the integrity and independence of the Department of Justice.

    Other provisions in this bill above could interfere with my constitutional foreign affairs powers. Section 1244 requires the President to submit a report to the Congress 60 days prior to sharing any U.S. classified ballistic missile defense information with Russia. Section 1244 further specifies that this report include a detailed description of the classified information to be provided. While my Administration intends to keep the Congress fully informed of the status of U.S. efforts to cooperate with the Russian Federation on ballistic missile defense, my Administration will also interpret and implement section 1244 in a manner that does not interfere with the President's constitutional authority to conduct foreign affairs and avoids the undue disclosure of sensitive diplomatic communications. Other sections pose similar problems. Sections 1231, 1240, 1241, and 1242 could be read to require the disclosure of sensitive diplomatic communications and national security secrets; and sections 1235, 1242, and 1245 would interfere with my constitutional authority to conduct foreign relations by directing the Executive to take certain positions in negotiations or discussions with foreign governments. Like section 1244, should any application of these provisions conflict with my constitutional authorities, I will treat the provisions as non-binding.

    My Administration has worked tirelessly to reform or remove the provisions described above in order to facilitate the enactment of this vital legislation, but certain provisions remain concerning. My Administration will aggressively seek to mitigate those concerns through the design of implementation procedures and other authorities available to me as Chief Executive and Commander in Chief, will oppose any attempt to extend or expand them in the future, and will seek the repeal of any provisions that undermine the policies and values that have guided my Administration throughout my time in office.

    BARACK OBAMA


    THE WHITE HOUSE,
    December 31, 2011


This was all okay, right?

http://www.justice.gov/olc/signing.htm
    quote:

    This memorandum provides you with an analysis of the legal significance of Presidential signing statements. It is addressed to the questions that have been raised about the usefulness or validity of a such statements. We believe that such statements may on appropriate occasions perform useful and legally significant functions. These functions include (1) explaining to the public, and particularly to constituencies interested in the bill, what the President believes to be the likely effects of its adoption, (2) directing subordinate officers within the Executive Branch how to interpret or administer the enactment, and (3) informing Congress and the public that the Executive believes that a particular provision would be unconstitutional in certain of its applications, or that it is unconstitutional on its face, and that the provision will not be given effect by the Executive Branch to the extent that such enforcement would create an unconstitutional condition.(1)

    These functions must be carefully distinguished from a much more controversial -- and apparently recent -- use of Presidential signing statements, i.e., to create legislative history to which the courts are expected to give some weight when construing the enactment. In what follows, we outline the rationales for the first three functions, and then consider arguments for and against the fourth function.(2) The Appendix to the memorandum surveys the use of signing statements by earlier Presidents and provides examples of such statements that were intended to have legal significance or effects.

    I.

    To begin with, it appears to be an uncontroversial use of signing statements to explain to the public, and more particularly to interested constituencies, what the President understands to be the likely effects of the bill, and how it coheres or fails to cohere with the Administration's views or programs.(3)

    A second, and also generally uncontroversial, function of Presidential signing statements is to guide and direct Executive officials in interpreting or administering a statute. The President has the constitutional authority to supervise and control the activity of subordinate officials within the Executive Branch. See Franklin v. Massachusetts, 112 S. Ct. 2767, 2775 (1992). In the exercise of that authority he may direct such officials how to interpret and apply the statutes they administer.(4) Cf. Bowsher v. Synar, 478 U.S. 714, 733 (1986) ("nterpreting a law enacted by Congress to implement the legislative mandate is the very essence of 'execution' of the law."). Signing statements have frequently expressed the President's intention to construe or administer a statute in a particular manner (often to save the statute from unconstitutionality), and such statements have the effect of binding the statutory interpretation of other Executive Branch officials.(5)

    A third function, more controversial than either of the two considered above, is the use of signing statements to announce the President's view of the constitutionality of the legislation he is signing. This category embraces at least three species: statements that declare that the legislation (or relevant provisions) would be unconstitutional in certain applications; statements that purport to construe the legislation in a manner that would "save" it from unconstitutionality; and statements that state flatly that the legislation is unconstitutional on its face. Each of these species of statement may include a declaration as to how -- or whether -- the legislation will be enforced.

    Thus, the President may use a signing statement to announce that, although the legislation is constitutional on its face, it would be unconstitutional in various applications, and that in such applications he will refuse to execute it. Such a Presidential statement could be analogized to a Supreme Court opinion that upheld legislation against a facial constitutional challenge, but warned at the same time that certain applications of the act would be unconstitutional. Cf. Bowen v. Kendrick, 487 U.S. 589, 622-24 (1987) (O'Connor, J., concurring). Relatedly, a signing statement may put forward a "saving" construction of the bill, explaining that the President will construe it in a certain manner in order to avoid constitutional difficulties. See Federal Election Comm'n v. NRA Political Victory Fund, 1993 U.S. App. LEXIS 27298 (D.C. Cir. 1993), at *11-*12 (Silberman, J., joined by Wald, J.) (citing two Presidential signing statements adopting "saving" construction of legislation limiting appointment power). This, too, is analogous to the Supreme Court's practice of construing statutes, if possible, to avoid holding them unconstitutional, or even to avoid deciding difficult constitutional questions.

    More boldly still, the President may declare in a signing statement that a provision of the bill before him is flatly unconstitutional, and that he will refuse to enforce it. This species of statement merits separate discussion.(6)

    In each of the last three Administrations, the Department of Justice has advised the President that the Constitution provides him with the authority to decline to enforce a clearly unconstitutional law.(7) This advice is, we believe, consistent with the views of the Framers.(8) Moreover, four sitting Justices of the Supreme Court have joined in the opinion that the President may resist laws that encroach upon his powers by "disregard[ing] them when they are unconstitutional." Freytag v. C.I.R., 111 S. Ct. 2631, 2653 (1991) (Scalia, J., joined by O'Connor, Kennedy and Souter, JJ., concurring in part and concurring in judgment).(9)

    If the President may properly decline to enforce a law, at least when it unconstitutionally encroaches on his powers, then it arguably follows that he may properly announce to Congress and to the public that he will not enforce a provision of an enactment he is signing. If so, then a signing statement that challenges what the President determines to be an unconstitutional encroachment on his power, or that announces the President's unwillingness to enforce (or willingness to litigate) such a provision, can be a valid and reasonable exercise of Presidential authority.(10) And indeed, in a recent decision by the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, Federal Election Comm'n v. NRA Political Victory Fund, supra, the court cited to and relied upon a Presidential signing statement that had declared that a Congressionally-enacted limitation on the President's constitutional authority to appoint officers of the United States was without legal force or effect. Id. at * 11.

    The contrary view -- that it is the President's constitutional duty not to sign legislation that he believes is unconstitutional -- has been advanced on occasion. For example, Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson advised President Washington in 1791 that the veto power "is the shield provided by the constitution to protect against the invasions of the legislature [of] 1. the rights of the Executive 2. of the Judiciary 3. of the states and state legislatures." Opinion on the Constitutionality of the Bill for Establishing a National Bank (Feb. 15, 1791), reprinted in III The Founders' Constitution 247 (Philip B. Kurland & Ralph Lerner eds. 1987). James Madison appears to have held a similar view and as President once vetoed a bill on constitutional grounds even though he supported it as a matter of policy. See Message to the House of Representatives (Mar. 3, 1817), in I James Richardson (ed.), Messages and Papers of the Presidents, 585 (1896) (while praising the bill's "beneficial objects," Madison wrote that he "ha[d] no option but to withhold [his] signature from it" because he thought it unconstitutional). Jefferson and Madison, however, did not in fact always act on this understanding of the President's duties: in 1803 President Jefferson, with Secretary of State Madison's agreement, signed legislation appropriating funds for the Louisiana Purchase even though Jefferson thought the purchase unconstitutional. See I William M. Goldsmith, The Growth of Presidential Power 438-50 (1974). In light of our constitutional history, we do not believe that the President is under any duty to veto legislation containing a constitutionally infirm provision, although of course it is entirely appropriate for the President to do so.

    II.

    Separate and distinct from all the preceding categories of signing statement, and apparently even more controversial than any of them, is the use of such statements to create legislative (or "executive") history that is expected to be given weight by the courts in ascertain the meaning of statutory language. See Marc N. Garber and Kurt A. Wimmer, Presidential Signing Statements as Interpretations of Legislative Intent: An Executive Aggrandizement of Power, 24 Harv. J. on Legis. 363, 366 (1987). Although isolated examples can perhaps be found earlier, signing statements of this kind appear to have originated (and were certainly first widely used) in the Reagan Administration.

    In 1986, then-Attorney General Meese entered into an arrangement with the West Publishing Company to have Presidential signing statements published for the first time in the U.S. Code Congressional and Administrative News, the standard collection of legislative history. Mr. Meese explained the purpose of the project as follows:

    To make sure that the President's own understanding of what's in a bill is the same . . . or is given consideration at the time of statutory construction later on by a court, we have now arranged with the West Publishing Company that the presidential statement on the signing of a bill will accompany the legislative history from Congress so that all can be available to the court for future construction of what that statute really means.

    Address by Attorney General Edwin Meese III, National Press Club, Washington, D.C. (Feb. 25, 1986) (quoted in Garber and Wimmer, supra, at 367).

    We do not attempt finally to decide here whether signing statements may legitimately be used in the manner described by Attorney General Meese. We believe it would be useful, however, to outline the main arguments for and against such use.

    In support of the view that signing statements can be used to create a species of legislative history, it can be argued that the President as a matter both of constitutional right and of political reality plays a critical role in the legislative process. The Constitution prescribes that the President "shall from time to time . . . recommend to [Congress's] Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient." U.S. Const., art. II, § 3, cl. 1. Moreover, before a bill is enacted into law, it must be presented to the President. "If he approve it he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated." U.S. Const., art. I, § 7, cl. 2.(11) Plainly, the Constitution envisages that the President will be an important actor in the legislative process, whether in originating bills, in signing them into law, or in vetoing them. Furthermore, for much of American history the President has de facto been "a sort of prime minister or 'third House of Congress.' . . . [H]e is now expected to make detailed recommendations in the form of messages and proposed bills, to watch them closely in their tortuous progress on the floor and in committee in each house, and to use every honorable means within his power to persuade . . . Congress to give him what he wanted in the first place." Clinton Rossiter, The American Presidency, 110 (2d ed. 1960). It may therefore be appropriate for the President, when signing legislation, to explain what his (and Congress's) intention was in making the legislation law, particularly if the Administration has played a significant part in moving the legislation through Congress. And in fact several courts of appeals have relied on signing statements when construing legislation. See United States v. Story, 891 F.2d 988, 994 (2d Cir. 1989) (Newman, J.) ("though in some circumstances there is room for doubt as to the weight to be accorded a presidential signing statement in illuminating congressional intent, . . . President Reagan's views are significant here because the Executive Branch participated in the negotiation of the compromise legislation."); Berry v. Dep't of Justice, 733 F.2d 1343, 1349-50 (9th Cir. 1984) (citing President Johnson's signing statement on goals of Freedom of Information Act); Clifton D. Mayhew, Inc. v. Wirtz, 413 F.2d 658, 661-62 (4th Cir. 1969) (relying on President Truman's description in signing statement of proper legal standard to be used in Portal-to-Portal Act).

    On the other side, it can be argued that the President simply cannot cannot speak for Congress, which is an independent constitutional actor and which, moreover, is specifically vested with "[a]ll legislative powers herein granted." U.S. Const., art. I, § 1, cl. 1. Congress makes legislative history in committee reports, floor debates and hearings, and nothing that the President says on the occasion of signing on a bill can reinterpret that record: once an enrolled bill has been attested by the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate and has been presented to the President, the legislative record is closed. See Field v. Clark, 143 U.S. 649, 672 (1892). A signing statement purporting to explain the intent of the legislation is, therefore, entitled at most to the limited consideration accorded to other kinds of post-passage legislative history, such as later floor statements, testimony or affidavits by legislators, or amicus briefs filed on behalf of members of Congress. See Regional Rail Reorganization Act Cases, 419 U.S. 102, 132 (1974) ("post-passage remarks of legislators, however explicit, cannot serve to change the legislative intent of Congress expressed before the act's passage . . . . Such statements 'represent only the personal views of these legislators . . .'.").(12) Finally, it is arguable that "by reinterpreting those parts of congressionally enacted legislation of which he disapproves, the President exercises unconstitutional line-item veto power." Garber and Wimmer, supra, at 376. See also Constitutionality of Line-Item Veto Proposal, 9 Op. O.L.C. 28, 30 (1985) ("under the system of checks and balances established by the Constitution, the President has the right to approve or reject a piece of legislation, but not to rewrite it or change the bargain struck by Congress in adopting a particular bill").

    Conclusion

    Many Presidents have used signing statements to make substantive legal, constitutional or administrative pronouncements on the bill being signed. Although the recent practice of issuing signing statements to create "legislative history" remains controversial, the other uses of Presidential signing statements generally serve legitimate and defensible purposes.


ETA:

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/statements.php
    quote:

    President George W. Bush objected to over 700 provisions of law, usually on the grounds that they infringe on the authority granted to the Executive Branch by the Constitution. Some of these objections may imply that the President does not intend to execute these provisions of law.


How dare he think that the authorities granted in the Constitution to the President should not be infringed by Congress.

< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 2/6/2014 11:36:08 AM >


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/6/2014 12:10:56 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
http://www.loc.gov/law/help/statements.php
    quote:

    President George W. Bush objected to over 700 provisions of law, usually on the grounds that they infringe on the authority granted to the Executive Branch by the Constitution. Some of these objections may imply that the President does not intend to execute these provisions of law.



How dare he think that the authorities granted in the Constitution to the President should not be infringed by Congress.

Then he should have taken it to court. Not simply said he was above the law. Note that in the singing statement you quoted by Obama he simply said he would never use a provision allowing the government to do some things. Not doing something is far different than doing things specifically forbidden by law and saying you are above the law which is what W did. 

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/6/2014 12:37:24 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
Too bad for Nixon, that privilege is cancelled out by checks and balances. I dislike him personally for his withdrawl from the Bretton Woods but I digress.

Three words:
WORST. CONGRESS. EVER.
But please, don't take my word for it. Take the word from the Washington Times.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/9/capitol-hill-least-productive-congress-ever-112th-/?page=all
But how many people will be voting in November?
I won't get my hopes too high up on a sudden collective lack of apathy for Congress denying healthcare for 9/11 responders YEARS ago and still getting reelected by a small fraction of the voting population.



I agree, worst Congress ever. Led by Republicans who seem to excel at fucking things up for all Americans.

Sadly, most of them will get re-elected to their position or someone equally 'republican' or 'tea party' thanks to Gerrymandering in the states. Even though the Republicans did a lot of bad things, there are not enough Democrats (or any other sensible party) that has enough votes to remove the person.

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/6/2014 12:52:38 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
Too bad for Nixon, that privilege is cancelled out by checks and balances. I dislike him personally for his withdrawl from the Bretton Woods but I digress.

Three words:
WORST. CONGRESS. EVER.
But please, don't take my word for it. Take the word from the Washington Times.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/9/capitol-hill-least-productive-congress-ever-112th-/?page=all
But how many people will be voting in November?
I won't get my hopes too high up on a sudden collective lack of apathy for Congress denying healthcare for 9/11 responders YEARS ago and still getting reelected by a small fraction of the voting population.



I agree, worst Congress ever. Led by Republicans who seem to excel at fucking things up for all Americans.

Sadly, most of them will get re-elected to their position or someone equally 'republican' or 'tea party' thanks to Gerrymandering in the states. Even though the Republicans did a lot of bad things, there are not enough Democrats (or any other sensible party) that has enough votes to remove the person.




From the link -

The sloth wasn’t balanced equally. In records stretching back 33 congresses, the House was the 31st least productive, while the Senate was dead last at 33rd.

Actually, being non-productive I find quite desirable.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/6/2014 6:15:49 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Congress is obsolete


Congress is a paper weight.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/6/2014 8:22:04 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
http://www.loc.gov/law/help/statements.php
    quote:

    President George W. Bush objected to over 700 provisions of law, usually on the grounds that they infringe on the authority granted to the Executive Branch by the Constitution. Some of these objections may imply that the President does not intend to execute these provisions of law.

How dare he think that the authorities granted in the Constitution to the President should not be infringed by Congress.

Then he should have taken it to court. Not simply said he was above the law. Note that in the singing statement you quoted by Obama he simply said he would never use a provision allowing the government to do some things. Not doing something is far different than doing things specifically forbidden by law and saying you are above the law which is what W did. 


Actually, no, Bush did not do that. Bush stated that he was going to not let legislation infringe on his Constitutional authorities as President.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Congress is obsolete

Congress is a paper weight.


Better a paperweight, than a rubber stamp.

_____________________________

What I support:

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  • Personal Responsibility
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  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/8/2014 3:55:29 AM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Obama is helping Americans....and stopping the republicans from hurting us.....

...by hurting more Americans than he helps? Not a very well thought out long-term plan.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/8/2014 4:08:12 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=76389
    quote:

    Today, I have signed into law H.R. 4986, the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008. The Act authorizes funding for the defense of the United States and its interests abroad, for military construction, and for national security-related energy programs.
    Provisions of the Act, including sections 841, 846, 1079, and 1222, purport to impose requirements that could inhibit the President's ability to carry out his constitutional obligations to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, to protect national security, to supervise the executive branch, and to execute his authority as Commander in Chief. The executive branch shall construe such provisions in a manner consistent with the constitutional authority of the President.

    GEORGE W. BUSH

    The White House,
    January 28, 2008.


I sure hope W got a lot of use out of that, in his last year in office.


Doesn't the federal fiscal year start on 01 OCT.? I'm almost positive it does. So, if this benefitted anyone it was uncle Barry Obummer.





< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 2/8/2014 4:13:30 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/8/2014 6:10:43 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Why do some of the liberals have such a problem differentiating between wanting to control something and wanting to do away with it entirely? For example A conservative can say they want "less government" and the liberal hears "no government" Perhaps if they weren't in such a hurry to paint the other side as evil they would take the time to listen to what they are actually saying.


What's happening is that actions speak louder than words.

Conservatives used to claim that the tea party was a bipartisan fiscal movement, remember that long running argument with people who weren't born yesterday that it was very obviously an extremist traditionalist social movement.

Now we're back to the "less government" propaganda but you can't really blame people for noticing that what that actually looks like is to turn the parts of the government they can control into a paper weight and then gloat about it.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Congress is obsolete - 2/8/2014 6:14:29 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=76389
    quote:

    Today, I have signed into law H.R. 4986, the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008. The Act authorizes funding for the defense of the United States and its interests abroad, for military construction, and for national security-related energy programs.
    Provisions of the Act, including sections 841, 846, 1079, and 1222, purport to impose requirements that could inhibit the President's ability to carry out his constitutional obligations to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, to protect national security, to supervise the executive branch, and to execute his authority as Commander in Chief. The executive branch shall construe such provisions in a manner consistent with the constitutional authority of the President.
    GEORGE W. BUSH
    The White House,
    January 28, 2008.

I sure hope W got a lot of use out of that, in his last year in office.

Doesn't the federal fiscal year start on 01 OCT.? I'm almost positive it does. So, if this benefitted anyone it was uncle Barry Obummer.


No. Fiscal year 2008 ended 31 September 2008. Bush had almost an entire year with which to wield this authority.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 37
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