quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The same individuals do fly south, over winter, fly north, reproduce and die. they are not born directly from the previous generation of monarchs that did so.

Right, and the other three generations that all those websites claim are part of the yearly migration are doing what exactly?

quote:

As to how they find their way?
http://www.nature.com/news/monarch-butterflies-navigate-with-compass-but-no-map-1.12756

Thanks but the question is; what are the Evolutionary mechanisms that are responsible for the last generation returning to the exact same trees their great grandparents left a year before.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The same individuals do fly south, over winter, fly north, reproduce and die. they are not born directly from the previous generation of monarchs that did so.

Right, and the other three generations that all those websites claim are part of the yearly migration are doing what exactly?

quote:

As to how they find their way?
http://www.nature.com/news/monarch-butterflies-navigate-with-compass-but-no-map-1.12756

Thanks but the question is; what are the Evolutionary mechanisms that are responsible for the last generation returning to the exact same trees their great grandparents left a year before.

I'm not sure they do. That article seems to indicate they don't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The same individuals do fly south, over winter, fly north, reproduce and die. they are not born directly from the previous generation of monarchs that did so.

Right, and the other three generations that all those websites claim are part of the yearly migration are doing what exactly?

quote:

As to how they find their way?
http://www.nature.com/news/monarch-butterflies-navigate-with-compass-but-no-map-1.12756

Thanks but the question is; what are the Evolutionary mechanisms that are responsible for the last generation returning to the exact same trees their great grandparents left a year before.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The same individuals do fly south, over winter, fly north, reproduce and die. they are not born directly from the previous generation of monarchs that did so.

Right, and the other three generations that all those websites claim are part of the yearly migration are doing what exactly?

quote:

As to how they find their way?
http://www.nature.com/news/monarch-butterflies-navigate-with-compass-but-no-map-1.12756

Thanks but the question is; what are the Evolutionary mechanisms that are responsible for the last generation returning to the exact same trees their great grandparents left a year before.

I think DomKen's link explained that pretty well - in the sense that it is not fully understood by anyone as yet.
The theory goes (according to Henrik Mouritsen) that the Monarchs aren't soo stupid as to risk their lives, and obviously the next generation of Monarchs, by attempting to fly over mountain ranges and large water masses. His experiments (and hypothesis) appear to show that they just fly using a simple compass method (probably following the earth's magnetic lines) to give them a general direction and the natural confines of the geography eventually funnel them to where their winter grounds are.
There is also a theory that once within the locality of their wintering grounds, they use a chemical "smell" to locate where their ancestors once roosted.
It's not much different to bats, penguins and many other creatures who are able to identify their own young or a previous nesting site/burrow when lost amongst hundreds of thousands (sometimes millions) of other individuals/sites to find their own particular one.

The workings of pheremones and other chemical signals are still being investigated by the scientific world and it's not all understood (yet).
So to be asking specifically what evolutionary mechanism(s) are involved with the Monarchs in locating the exact same tree as their ancestors roosted are still not resolved and nobody can really asnwer you.

Theories are out there - nothing proven as yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Just a thought, for a long time I believed that it was either Evolution or Creation. Then one day in a forum, I met a guy who was a atheist, who was arguing against Evolution, he wasn't arguing for Creation, just against Evolution and I so I asked him; "what's up?" He said; "There has to be a third way because Evolution is so full holes, mistakes, make believe and absolute idiocy that I'm amazed anyone would even try to defend it."
Just saying...
;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
That's no different to early days when we, as humans, didn't understand the human body to the degree that we do now.
And in those days, they just "invented" (usually religion-based) reasons why they did such butchery on people with what is now, easily understood and practiced medicine and surgical proceedures.

Creationism has, in recent decades, been thoroughly debunked except for those who are deeply entrenched in their religious beliefs.
The alien theory (aka, Von Daniken et al) has also been thoroughly debunked too.
Evolution is still a well-known theory and still a work-in-progress.
Sure, it'll still have holes that we haven't yet filled in.
But so far, it's the best we have in the way of explanation to most things.

So, until another theory is proffered that answers most of the questions, it's still a 1-horse race.
But that doesn't necessarilly imply that there is another theory just because the one we currently have has some unexplained holes.
Just like the genome project - we are slowly unravelling it and starting to understand some of it.

It's pretty much common sense to most of us in the real world.
You don't need to be any sort of scientist or an avid reader of scientific journals to suss that one out.

Maybe you're just a few steps behind everyone else??? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

how doesnt it work?

quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

Since Evolution doesn't work, please explain antibiotic resistance of previously vulnerable diseases and bacteria? I'm quite interested in a valid alternative explanation.
That evolution doesn't work for you may have to do with you are living only a single lifetime. Evolution required reproduction of a Lot of generations. Fewer than we used to think before evidence of 'Punctuated evolution' became known, and a LOOOOT more during more stable environmental conditions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

Just a thought, for a long time I believed that it was either Evolution or Creation. Then one day in a forum, I met a guy who was a atheist, who was arguing against Evolution, he wasn't arguing for Creation, just against Evolution and I so I asked him; "what's up?" He said; "There has to be a third way because Evolution is so full holes, mistakes, make believe and absolute idiocy that I'm amazed anyone would even try to defend it."
Just saying...
;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Or a few steps ahead???

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

Just a thought, for a long time I believed that it was either Evolution or Creation. Then one day in a forum, I met a guy who was a atheist, who was arguing against Evolution, he wasn't arguing for Creation, just against Evolution and I so I asked him; "what's up?" He said; "There has to be a third way because Evolution is so full holes, mistakes, make believe and absolute idiocy that I'm amazed anyone would even try to defend it."
Just saying...
;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
As usual, you're totally out of the loop.
;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100119092832.htm
Insect colonies operate as 'superorganisms', new research finds

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Talk about nonsense. You can "consider" the drones to be anything you want but in reality they are not a "organ" of the queen. If you called human children an organ of the parent, people would laugh you out of this thread. Yet you think doing so for insects makes it, okay.
;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

how doesnt it work?

Whereas, personally, Evolution doesn't work for me, for my own reasons.
If you want to know why he thinks it doesn't work, you'll have to ask him.
;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

Just a thought, for a long time I believed that it was either Evolution or Creation. Then one day in a forum, I met a guy who was a atheist, who was arguing against Evolution, he wasn't arguing for Creation, just against Evolution and I so I asked him; "what's up?" He said; "There has to be a third way because Evolution is so full holes, mistakes, make believe and absolute idiocy that I'm amazed anyone would even try to defend it."
Just saying...
;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The same individuals do fly south, over winter, fly north, reproduce and die. they are not born directly from the previous generation of monarchs that did so.

Right, and the other three generations that all those websites claim are part of the yearly migration are doing what exactly?

quote:

As to how they find their way?
http://www.nature.com/news/monarch-butterflies-navigate-with-compass-but-no-map-1.12756

Thanks but the question is; what are the Evolutionary mechanisms that are responsible for the last generation returning to the exact same trees their great grandparents left a year before.

quote:

Then I suggest that you reread what was said. I pointed out that it takes four generations of "egg to caterpillar to pupae to butterfly" or as you put it four individuals to make one complete migration and that the last individual, as you put it, lives 3 to 4 times longer than the other three individuals. That last individual is three generations from having ever been in Mexico and yet returns to the same trees it's great grandparents left. http://www.monarch-butterfly.com/monarch-migration.html
So again I ask, what is the Evolutionary mechanism that accounts for this?
;-)