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Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/6/2014 3:10:19 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		It seems like almost every day, I see articles about how the ACA is going to affect employment in the United States. I have no doubt that it will, but not in the way some people think.

The ACA is not going to cause a sudden early retirement extravaganza. I’m sure there are a few people close to retirement age that only continued working for the health insurance, but many continue working because they enjoy it, because they’re trying to replace some of what they lost during the stock market crash, or for other reasons.

The ACA is not going to destroy jobs or make Americans want to work less. To clarify my point, I’m going to explain an important difference between employer provided health insurance and health insurance on the exchange. Costs associated with employer provided health insurance are not based on income. Employers usually subsidize the health insurance of their workers, but not the families of their workers. That’s why a $500 deductible increases to $5,000+ if a spouse or child is added to the policy. Employer provided health insurance can be a pretty good deal for full time single childless workers in the middle to high income range. Why would they want to cut back their hours and lose that? Costs associated with health insurance on the exchange are based on income. All family members are subsidized, not just the worker. Because the offer of coverage to full-time workers makes them and their families ineligible for subsidized health insurance on the exchange, low income workers and their families would likely be better off having more than one part-time job instead of working full-time for one employer and paying for health insurance they can’t afford to use. Many people who work at part-time jobs work just as many if not more hours than full-time workers because they have more than one employer. There are advantages to working more than one part-time job. If a job ends, part time workers with more than one job still have income from their other job while full time workers lose their entire income. Their resumes look better because they’re continuously employed. They don’t have to worry about explaining gaps in their employment histories. People really need to stop freaking out about part-time jobs.

In conclusion, the ACA gives Americans the FREEDOM TO CHOOSE between full-time jobs with health insurance not based on income or part-time jobs with health insurance costs that are based on income. I think people will end up choosing the best deal for them and their families, depending on their individual situation.


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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/6/2014 4:28:57 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

It seems like almost every day, I see articles about how the ACA is going to affect employment in the United States. I have no doubt that it will, but not in the way some people think.

The ACA is not going to cause a sudden early retirement extravaganza. I’m sure there are a few people close to retirement age that only continued working for the health insurance, but many continue working because they enjoy it, because they’re trying to replace some of what they lost during the stock market crash, or for other reasons.

The ACA is not going to destroy jobs or make Americans want to work less. (It already has) To clarify my point, I’m going to explain an important difference between employer provided health insurance and health insurance on the exchange. Costs associated with employer provided health insurance are not based on income. Employers usually subsidize the health insurance of their workers, but not the families of their workers. That’s why a $500 deductible increases to $5,000+ if a spouse or child is added to the policy. Employer provided health insurance can be a pretty good deal for full time single childless workers in the middle to high income range. Why would they want to cut back their hours and lose that? (because it costs 6 grand a year per employee) Costs associated with health insurance on the exchange are based on income. All family members are subsidized, not just the worker. Because the offer of coverage to full-time workers makes them and their families ineligible for subsidized health insurance on the exchange, low income workers and their families would likely be better off having more than one part-time job instead of working full-time for one employer and paying for health insurance they can’t afford to use. Many people who work at part-time jobs work just as many if not more hours than full-time workers because they have more than one employer. There are advantages to working more than one part-time job. If a job ends, part time workers with more than one job still have income from their other job while full time workers lose their entire income. Their resumes look better because they’re continuously employed. They don’t have to worry about explaining gaps in their employment histories. People really need to stop freaking out about part-time jobs.

In conclusion, the ACA gives Americans the FREEDOM TO CHOOSE between full-time jobs with health insurance not based on income or part-time jobs with health insurance costs that are based on income. I think people will end up choosing the best deal for them and their families, depending on their individual situation.



Freedom to choose...with 2 - 7 jobs to keep same....great gig. Love it.

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/6/2014 8:18:43 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		Gee Wally I don't know... I like the sound of not having to work X amount of hours and having everyone else subsidise my health care... It's the American Dream dontcha know?

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/6/2014 8:26:13 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is the American dream....dontcha know....


Freeing Americans up, good healthcare and more time to enjoy life is what that is......dontcha know....


But ya`know rob.....we couldn`t care less thatcha don`t know....


We`re all ok with republicans being mis-informed and clueless....and we`ve moved on....

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 4:16:19 AM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I think there are quite a few older people, moms, students, etc who would prefer to only work part-time and have not been able to because they needed insurance, which they could only get as full-time workers.

I was in that boat for a while myself - I wanted to go to college full-time and only work part-time, but couldn't, because I needed insurance because of a health problem I have.

So I think we'll see a lot of people in those situations cut back their hours. Which will be great for unemployment, I think, since it frees up work for people that actually need it.

< Message edited by graceadieu -- 2/7/2014 4:18:25 AM >

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 4:21:32 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		Yes! having to work multiple jobs (and spend all the gas and time to get back and forth between them) just to maintain a (probably) crappy standard of living is just what the people in this country need.

It will further help to weaken families (less time to spend with the children and spouse/partner), frazzle the nerves of workers (part timers don't get vacations), and generally destroy what used to be the American way of life. I can see why it was a dumbocrat that came up with it and a bunch of 'em that shoved it down our throats.



Well played, Obummer. You socialist piece of shit.





< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 2/7/2014 4:28:35 AM >

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 5:49:43 AM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Yes! having to work multiple jobs (and spend all the gas and time to get back and forth between them) just to maintain a (probably) crappy standard of living is just what the people in this country need.

It will further help to weaken families (less time to spend with the children and spouse/partner), frazzle the nerves of workers (part timers don't get vacations), and generally destroy what used to be the American way of life. I can see why it was a dumbocrat that came up with it and a bunch of 'em that shoved it down our throats.



Well played, Obummer. You socialist piece of shit.









_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 6:02:54 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		What about the stress and frazzled nerves of low income working families having health insurance they can't afford to use? How often do you think the families of fast food workers, department store workers, and home health aids can afford medical care? Do you think they can afford $5,000+ deductibles and $10,000+ annual maximums? They better hope none of the family members have cancer or other chronic conditions that cost the entire deductible and annual maximum every year. The ER isn't a cancer treatment center and oncologists don't keep seeing patients that owe them $5,000+. Imagine the stress that used to put on families. This is what Republicans want to go back to. It would be better if eligibility for subsidies was based on income alone instead of access to employer provided health insurance that only subsidizes the worker and not the family. But until the family glitch is fixed (improvement, not repeal), at least low income families have the option of working part-time to avoid being offered unaffordable employer provided health insurance so they're eligible for health insurance that's based on their income. Also, there are advantages to part-time work and I see nothing wrong with pointing them out.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 2/7/2014 6:37:05 AM >

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 6:22:22 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		He`s pretending to play dumb (pretending?mmmm)....


Claiming opposite of what the CBO said....


Again...we`re all ok with republicans being mis-informed and clueless....and we`ve moved on....





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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 7:01:03 AM   
cloudboy


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According to him, Nelson Mandela was a black supremacist. He'll believe whatever he wants to and takes pride in such positions as well.

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 7:19:31 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		I wasn`t here for that one but I complete believe you.....omg.....I`m a race traitor.....a huge compliment from the likes of that one...







Just before it became unfashionable.....the gop-extemists and right-hate-radio was viciously attacking Mandela while breaking there necks to keep Apartheid gong there, fighting the international boycott whenever and however they could....


One really should keep in mind that the " the world revolves around me/I`m a victim of it" mindset is a very lonely, bitter place to be. Being outside looking in is no picnic.....




_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 7:25:18 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		For those whom cartoons my help...






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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 9:19:30 AM   
VideoAdminGamma


Posts: 2233
Status: offline 		Everyone can stop the sniping back and forth. I have seen you make this comment on a couple of topics that it is not relevant to. Use some self control and try to follow the rules you agreed to when you joined. If you have any questions you can contact me or Chi.

Do not reply to this post.

Gamma

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


According to him, Nelson Mandela was a black supremacist. He'll believe whatever he wants to and takes pride in such positions as well.



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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 11:57:37 AM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Gee Wally I don't know... I like the sound of not having to work X amount of hours and having everyone else subsidise my health care... It's the American Dream dontcha know?

The American dream is coming true for the corporation and the investor class. First I create a set of benefits to get you in, then over time the employees pay more for their health insurance, then they pay more for their own retirement if I can't fire them after 20 years and forget that retirement. Then if I act quick, I can leverage a company and steal the retirement money, (then the govt. finally says no and passes ERISA to protect those funds) Then I stop funding retirement at all, then along come the ACA and I provide NO health insurance at all.

Sounds like a great deal for employers.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/7/2014 12:06:57 PM >

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 12:04:47 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Yes! having to work multiple jobs (and spend all the gas and time to get back and forth between them) just to maintain a (probably) crappy standard of living is just what the people in this country need.

It will further help to weaken families (less time to spend with the children and spouse/partner), frazzle the nerves of workers (part timers don't get vacations), and generally destroy what used to be the American way of life. I can see why it was a dumbocrat that came up with it and a bunch of 'em that shoved it down our throats.



Well played, Obummer. You socialist piece of shit.





Correct except it is the corporations and the investor class that came up with this. The only real socialism we see is wall street and the rich...see bailouts, govt. insurance for banks, big agri., overseas investors, the military indust. complex and other forms corporate entitlements and welfare.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/7/2014 12:07:46 PM >

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 12:06:54 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		many people are already having to worok more than one job/or two or three or more jobs to maintain a lousy living standard(heard of the update on minimum wage) and have been for decades.

talk about grabbing the shitty end of the stick and calling it gold

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 1:21:58 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Gee Wally I don't know... I like the sound of not having to work X amount of hours and having everyone else subsidise my health care... It's the American Dream dontcha know?


You have a point (which, as it would appear, others have caught on to) :)

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RE: Making sense of Obamacare vs Jobs - 2/7/2014 1:48:46 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is the American dream....dontcha know....


Freeing Americans up, good healthcare and more time to enjoy life is what that is......dontcha know....


But ya`know rob.....we couldn`t care less thatcha don`t know....


We`re all ok with republicans being mis-informed and clueless....and we`ve moved on....


It's always fascinating to me when anyone attempts to denigrate Republican politics.

With the singular exception of Clinton's reign (8 - 10 million jobs added during a time of staggering, indecipherable {at the time} rising productivity caused singularly by the computer revolution, which literally grew roots during Bush I's reign and blossomed during Clinton's), Republican Administrations have added more jobs than Democrats. Had a Republican been in office at that time, those jobs would have landed in their column...solely because they were destined....not created by any Administration.

Democrats have historically (in aggregate) had higher deficits and added to the debt more than Republicans (that even includes Reagan, who more than tripled our national debt). However, it should be added, deducting Obama's deficits and additions to the debt from the total, would put Republicans in the forefront of deficit and debt....almost entirely caused by the housing fallout, entirely caused by liar loans and the blatant removal of redlining which was....you guessed it, made law by Democrats and....ACORN, a Democratic group, funded by the government, rife with lawlessness and graft.

Interestingly, it was a Republican (Reagan) who lowered tax rates straight across the board, removing 34% of the lowest earners from the tax rolls, creating what we have now; 57% of the population paying no federal tax at all, causing a tremendous imbalance in tax revenue structures.

Equally as interesting, it was a Democrat (Clinton) who, by initiating NAFTA, caused 10's of millions of jobs to leave the United States (more than he "created"). He argued, effectively (although, now with history proving otherwise, incorrectly) that with rising productivity, "America doesn't need these low profit jobs or products and we'd be better off buying them from those who can produce them cheaper...and putting our brainpower into those things that America does best: Innovate".

If we were to go back to pre-Reagan tax policy (Democrat tax policy), 80% of the U.S. population would be paying personal federal taxes (as opposed to 43% today), everyone would be paying at least 20% more in taxes (of those who paid taxes), meaning, those who pay nothing today would pay between $500.00 and $7,000.00 where today they pay nothing at all.

Now...there's one very clear way to determine if everyone is paying the correct amount of tax: If we're borrowing to do what we do....and....we do, then clearly, more revenue is required

Which means not that the wealthy should pay more...rather....everyone should.

And that is the "fairness" that few Democrats can grasp or own up to.

The wealthy have no problem paying more.

They can afford it.

But they want everyone in the game...paying "something".

Even 10 bucks would work.

But Democrats don't find that acceptable. Only the wealthy should pay more.

Today they pay 85% of the personal income taxes. Before Reagan, they paid less than 50%. Isn't it intriguing that when everyone paid something and the wealthy paid more, the imbalance of income was 1/20th what it is today.

The day that Democrats are eager to have everyone pay something....you'll see Republicans jump all over more taxes for themselves.

This isn't an issue that mandates the wealthy should pay more, it's an "everyone should pay something" issue, and, clearly....we should all pay more...period.

I think what's even more amazing to me, regards all the folks who feel a need to complain how awful everything is, we now have 23 year old kids who with nothing more than a $500.00 computer, a little study on C++ and app building, and an account with Amazon Server, create businesses that in fewer than 20 months are worth billions. It is easier (and cheaper) today to start a life changing enterprise than ever in the entire history of humanity...and yet instead of going out and creating one of those....they feel a need to post relentlessly on Newspaper sites, Reddit and even here....as to how awful things are....

Instead of making their lives better.

Every single person who posts here has the basic essentials to start a billion dollar business....but they'd rather espouse with unending blather how the Republicans have fucked up everything.

They haven't fucked up anything any more than the Democrats have....which is to say.....they fucked up a lot.

So....change your world.

No one's gonna do it for you.

Take 1/10th the amount of energy you put in to bitching about why it's so fucked up and....change your world.

And maybe in the process...you may end up changing....the world.

Others have before you...others will again long after you're gone.

The one's that do....won't be bitching.

They'll be working towards a positive, reinforcing goal.


< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 2/7/2014 2:41:52 PM >

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