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American Exceptionalism - 2/11/2014 8:51:53 PM   
cloudboy


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I read this today in an OP ED.

Fifty percent of Americans over 65 believe America stands above all others as the greatest nation on earth. Only 27 percent of Americans ages 18 to 29 believe that

What are your insights into this disparity?

The above came from piece by David Brooks, which you can read here.
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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/11/2014 9:13:47 PM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		Hormones?


When I was that young,my little head did most of my thinking...

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/11/2014 9:14:21 PM >

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/11/2014 9:28:55 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


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Status: offline 		The younger ones are on the receiving end of this country's failures, so they know better than to believe the bleating of the Rightists.

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/11/2014 9:56:48 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
I read this today in an OP ED.
Fifty percent of Americans over 65 believe America stands above all others as the greatest nation on earth. Only 27 percent of Americans ages 18 to 29 believe that
What are your insights into this disparity?
The above came from piece by David Brooks, which you can read here.


So, I was playing "Beat the Parents" (not a BDSM game) with a friend, her kids, a friend of one of her kids and my kids. In all, the kids team consisted of 2 4th graders, two 6th graders, a 7th grader and a 9th grader. Three are honor roll students, one I have no idea about, and the other two could be if they tried.

The game is just a Q&A where the "Parent's" questions are about kid stuff, and the "Kid's" questions were about things that parents "should" know. Just to give a general idea, there were plenty of fairly specific questions about the world of Harry Potter, Handy Manny, other kid's shows, etc. Personally, I found the questions about adult knowledge were simplistic and general, while the questions about kid's stuff was much more specific. Yes, I knew a lot of the answers about the kid's stuff, but not all of them. I knew the answer to all the adult knowledge questions, though.

So, one question was, "When do we celebrate Independence Day?" They were clueless, but thought it was in September. Why September 18th came up, I don't know. I was appalled. I told my boys that I failed them as a Dad.

WTF, right?

Well, the older group was either part of the "Greatest Generation" or were a lot closer to that time period. They would have had a much greater knowledge of WWII, and everything that went into it. Frankly, I'm surprised that only 50% believe that way.

The younger group most likely doesn't understand what the US went through. Knowing your history facts is only one part of it, while understanding the importance of those facts and why they are facts at all, is the other part.

There is the little difference in the transfer of information now, compared to then. There is also much more negative media focus, and more criticism of the US in the media (founded or unfounded). Lack of understanding and more exposure to critical media certainly could be to blame.




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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/11/2014 10:35:24 PM   
FellowSlave


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Status: offline 		65 years of brainwashing, toxic food and propaganda vs. 25 years of brainwashing, toxic food and propaganda makes the difference.

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/11/2014 10:38:57 PM   
Owner59


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< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/11/2014 10:39:20 PM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 5:24:16 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I read this today in an OP ED.

Fifty percent of Americans over 65 believe America stands above all others as the greatest nation on earth. Only 27 percent of Americans ages 18 to 29 believe that

What are your insights into this disparity?

The above came from piece by David Brooks, which you can read here.


I think one has to look back at what America and the world looked like when these two age groups entered it. Those 65 and older would have been born in 1949 or earlier, and at that time, America really was in a strong position above all others. Politically, it was necessary to convince Americans of our greatness, since it was used as a justification for our interventionism around the world, making it a matter of patriotism and national honor. They were born at a time when the U.S. was still in a euphoric victory celebration after WW2, coupled with Cold War fears and the feeling of moral obligation that Americans had to be the arsenal of democracy and to make the world safe from communism. It was a matter of political necessity that Americans were convinced to believe that we were the greatest nation on Earth, and anyone who questioned that notion might be perceived as unpatriotic (or even worse, possibly a "pinko" or a "commie").

These ideas were strongly challenged by the time I came into the world in the 1960s, so we ourselves changed, including those who are over 65 today. However, I don't think the idea of American Exceptionalism itself or the idea that America is the greatest nation on Earth was challenged at that time. I think some people felt that because America was/is the greatest nation on Earth, we should have aspired to higher principles and conducted our affairs honorably and morally, both in terms of foreign and domestic policy. Indeed, some of the successes made by liberals and progressives in the 1960s and 70s even reinforced the idea that "America is the greatest" because the system was designed for internal change and pressured by dissent and protest.

But along with that, we Americans have also been our own biggest critics. We are and have always been quite self-critical, which some people might see as another source of America's strength and greatness. But it's a double-edged sword, since our tendency towards self-criticism might also lead other Americans to believe that "well, maybe we're not so great after all." But on the other side of that, there are those who might go too far the other way, being overly critical and making America seem far worse than we really are. That may be a consequence of American Exceptionalism, as it produces the opposite view which suggests that America is exceptionally "evil" or some kind of "Great Satan." Neither view is likely very accurate, but it does make for some compelling rhetoric.

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 5:51:30 AM   
MasterJimmi


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Status: offline 		The younger people are probably more on the internet and have learned more about other countries. Because they know more about other countries they have realized that America isn't that exceptional.

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 6:07:32 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		I think the United States is one of the worst, if not the very worst developed country in the world. In other developed countries, they have single-payer health care with no deductibles, annual maximums, or co-insurance and it covers nursing homes. In some developed countries, college is funded the same way as K-12th grade and child care is also subsidized by the government. In other developed countries, there's more job security. How wonderful it would be to not have to worry about deductibles, losing everything if someone goes to a nursing home, student loan debt, and child care. How can a country with none of these benefits be better than a country that has them? What kind of FREEDOM is years of student loan debt that ruins debt to income ratio? How is the chance of losing everything over medical bills or nursing home care FREEDOM? I wish every day I'd been born in a better developed country. Unfortunately, legally immigrating to and becoming a citizen of another country isn't possible unless one has a college degree and experience in a specific "skilled profession" the other country is seeking. With all the benefits other countries have that the United States is sorely lacking in, I will never understand American exceptionalism.

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 8:04:52 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
With all the benefits other countries have that the United States is sorely lacking in, I will never understand American exceptionalism.


Obviously, because you have no idea what it is to be American. It's all about your desire for provided benefits.

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." - JFK (that, of course, is open to interpretation)

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 8:09:28 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		I wish it were easier for the 'takers' like yourself to emigrate to another country.

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 9:12:29 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I wish it were easier for the 'takers' like yourself to emigrate to another country.


If the belief that taxpayer dollars should be spent on the American people instead of foreign aid, corporate welfare, and weapons the military doesn't need, classifies me as a "taker", damn right I'm a "taker." Working Americans earn the money collected for taxes, therefore the American people are entitled to have the money they earned spent on them, not some foreign country or welfare for greedy corporations.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 2/12/2014 9:18:33 AM >

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 9:22:33 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
With all the benefits other countries have that the United States is sorely lacking in, I will never understand American exceptionalism.


Obviously, because you have no idea what it is to be American. It's all about your desire for provided benefits.

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." - JFK (that, of course, is open to interpretation)

.....and of course the presumption is that the word benefits means govt. benefits...not over all benefits. Typical response from a country whose population is among the most undeservedly subjected to a country (world) of manipulated scarcity and one living under the culture not necessarily one that others believe is mankind's most motivating incentives chief of which is surviving in a competition for those resources and the jobs necessary to earn the paper needed to acquire them.

American exceptionalism can be measured in many ways: Highest per capita incarceration rate, highest per capita medical bankruptcies, highest by far in military spending, richest country with a falling life expectancy whose rate within that rank being only aided chiefly by govt. medical assistance. Among the 'richest' countries with a child mortatlity rate somewhere around Ethiopia. It does go on.

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 9:33:19 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I think if you polled the 60+ generation in the 1960’s you would find the same results as today. The very same generation that think the US is the greatest nation on earth would have had the same thoughts as the youth of today. Remember we were the hippy generation… as liberal as they come…We’ve changed with age.

It has nothing to do with the internet…and all to do with youth. When young without responsibilities most children, and they are children at that age, tend to lean to liberalism. As they get older and wiser and have more responsibilities to their families they tend to lean to conservatism. It is just the normal progression.

Butch

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 11:47:04 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think if you polled the 60+ generation in the 1960’s you would find the same results as today. The very same generation that think the US is the greatest nation on earth would have had the same thoughts as the youth of today. Remember we were the hippy generation… as liberal as they come…We’ve changed with age.

It has nothing to do with the internet…and all to do with youth. When young without responsibilities most children, and they are children at that age, tend to lean to liberalism. As they get older and wiser and have more responsibilities to their families they tend to lean to conservatism. It is just the normal progression.

Butch


This is certainly true, although I'm not sure if it's really applies to the question of American exceptionalism. I've seen that both liberals and conservatives believe in the basic idea that "America is the greatest nation," even if they might look at it from different vantage points. A liberal might consider that the "greatest nation" should also be the most generous - in which aid to the poor should be no problem since we've touted ourselves as a "land of plenty." A conservative might consider that the "greatest nation" has the right to lord it over other nations, whether on the basis of perceived ideological superiority or on the basis of might makes right.



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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 12:16:20 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I agree Zonie...but my comments were addressing the difference in opinion between young and old not necessarily which political party these ages represent. I happen to believe in American exceptionalism and although not a conservative I am more conservative than I was when 21. Even though I served in the Vietnam war and believed in it I was far more liberal then than now. If I had been asked then what I thought of American greatness I would have answered differently than today.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/12/2014 12:18:29 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 12:18:24 PM   
MasterJimmi


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Status: offline 		"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." - JFK

I can pay a high tax rate and in return we all get free education, money to cover our living expenses while studying, free healthcare, money if we are unlucky enough to lose our job and probably less crime because of less inequality, which makes the country safer. To many americans that might sound like a socialist nightmare, but in Denmark where we probably have the highest tax rate in the world the residents are very happy. So happy that we have been called the happiest nation on earth :-)

Is America more exceptional than Denmark or many other countries with high tax rates, a high living standard, universal healthcare and free education? I don't think so.

< Message edited by MasterJimmi -- 2/12/2014 12:24:08 PM >

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 12:34:03 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJimmi

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." - JFK

I can pay a high tax rate and in return we all get free education, get paid to cover our living expenses while studying, get free healthcare, and get money if we are unlucky enough to lose our job. To many americans that might sound like a socialist nightmare, but in Denmark where we probably have the highest tax rate in the world the residents are very happy. So happy that we have been called the happiest nation on earth :-)

America lives under a much different political and economic culture. The happiness, well being and standard of living is a secondary to money, profits, greed...in America. In Europe in general, Denmark in particular, there is the un-American thought that economy is to also serve society. In America, society is to serve economy.

What few Americans understand is that Denmark and countries like her are not socialist. They still have laws that respect private property and private profits. The prices are still subject to supply and demand most of which is not manipulated for a profit.

They do not have a political party that almost exclusively...operates and votes in the interest of the investor class.

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 12:48:25 PM   
MasterJimmi


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Status: offline 		Actually we do. It's called liberal alliance but it's still very new and small. I don't hope it will get much bigger. Liberal is also a danish word and I think it means something like libertarian in english.

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RE: American Exceptionalism - 2/12/2014 5:25:04 PM   
CreativeDominant


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Status: offline 		Here are two articles on American Exceptionalism.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/268588/defense-american-exceptionalism-clifford-d-may#!

http:///www.harvardpolitics.com/united-states/understanding-american-exceptionalism

The first article will also refer you to an article regarding a negative view of American Exceptionalism. And of course, if you plug it in, you can find all kinds of articles regarding this topic.

One thing that has not been mentioned on here is that the age group mentioned has also been described as one of the most self-absorbed, egotistic generations produced by this country...spoiled and hovered over by parental units (helicopter parents) and doted on by teachers who taught them that it is o.k. not to be able to spell or to write a sentence correctly, it is the IDEA that counts and how "bad" the U. S. has been not only to its own people but people around the world with little mention of what good the U. S. has done. Then, when they try telling that to the boss who finally decides to take a chance on one of these "adults", they are shocked to find it does not work that way in the business world...nor does it turn out that the boss will not step aside and let his "intellectual superior" take over running the company after two weeks. My brother had to attend a class on how to deal with this generation in which he learned that negative management will not work with these folks, that their main object of their loyalty is to themselves no matter how long someone else provides them a job and the chance to learn and grow and move up, that they feel they have a right to be heard on any aspect of the company they are working for despite having worked there for only 2 - 3 months. They expect to be given...if not everything...most of what they want without putting forth the effort to earn it. "I showed up at work...tell me how wonderful I am".

That is not all young people, so please do not get the idea that I think they are all that way. I see people in the office...My own kids...My nephews....some friends' kids...who are in this age group and act much more like the generation before them or even my generation.

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