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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/15/2014 10:08:24 PM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline 		No satire.
I do not think I can express my misgivings any more clearly than I already have.

I can only refer you to my comments/question regarding men in womens locker rooms, Namath, and the absolute fact that Sam, by virtue of making his sexuality a public issue, set himself up to sue his prospective employers.

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/15/2014 10:13:37 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

... and the absolute fact that Sam, by virtue of making his sexuality a public issue, set himself up to sue his prospective employers.



I said this, earlier.

The guy was only supposed to go in the (highest by anyone's estimation) 3rd round.

We've seen 1st round busts.

When this guy gets drafted, if he winds up being a bust and the team cuts him, there's going to be a multi-billion dollar lawsuit, claiming that the cut was based on his sexuality.





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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 12:06:58 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		FR...Straight males are often obsessed with the thought that every gay male treat straight men as many straight males treat any woman.

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 12:22:17 AM   
FrostedFlake


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Status: offline 		Interesting speech. It seems a tipping point has been passed.

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 5:06:28 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

FR...Straight males are often obsessed with the thought that every gay male treat straight men as many straight males treat any woman.

And this ridiculous notion that gayness is catching, of course...

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 5:57:36 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

FR...Straight males are often obsessed with the thought that every gay male treat straight men as many straight males treat any woman.

Some straight males. Insecure ones. Most know that we've been getting naked around gay men all our lives in locker rooms and its never been an issue.

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 6:38:51 AM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I have been a listener and call-in participant in a sports talk radio show for many years. Someone brought something up and I will try to quote him as closely as possible:

quote:

Radio Call-in

I'm not a lawyer but I have loads of friends who are so, I have no expertise but I know people who do.

A couple of my friends have suggested that this is a "master stroke" for Sam and his "people".

Any team that picks him in the draft is automatically under major scrutiny.

Before his announcement, people in the know were saying that he was going to go in the third to fifth round. Not high but not low.

If he turns out to be a bust, he and his people can claim that he was let go because he was gay.



Personally, I chose to see the good or the potential to be good in people but, this gives a different perspective of why some GMs might not want to draft this guy.

I wish it weren't like this but we've become such a litigious society that any business has to factor this into the equation.






The only problem with that theory is with sports, it would be extremely difficult to have such a lawsuit. For one thing, if the guy is even any good, teams are in such a need of people for their rosters that are halfway good that making the argument he was cut because he was gay would be very difficult to make (on prima facie argument would be that if you look at the NFL,players that get cut by one team end up on another pretty rapidly)....

The other thing is if the player played in pre season games, his performance would be on tape, which means his performance could be demonstrated, so trying to prove he was canned because he was gay would be difficult.

The other problem with that is there is no federal law governing sexual orientation (The Senate passed it, scumbag from Ohio, Boehner, refused even to bring it up for a vote), and in 35 states it is perfectly legal to let some go because they are gay, mostly thanks to the GOP and their "Christian" base.

In the court of public opinion, the NFL has a problem, and in that case, it is more likely the pressure would be to keep him on, the NFL has enough bad publicity as it is.

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 6:48:33 AM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Can you please tell me the difference between:

a. Putting a man sexually attracted to men in a locker room full of naked men and,
b. Putting a man sexually attracted to women in a locker room full of naked women?

(The only rational answer, of course, is that more women are likely to appreciate the subsequent leering).

The answer to your question is pretty simple, A happens all the time, B is rare. Unless you think that somehow someone being open and gay makes a difference in how they behave, there have been gay men in locker rooms since organized sports started......there have been gay baseball players, football players, and so forth, and how did they act? Among other things, a gay man playing sports is there to play sports, and if he is attracted to someone, he isn't likely to let it get in the way of his playing.

The real answer is that gay men when dealing with 'mixed' company can control themselves better (gay men with other gay men is a bit different..). All I will remind you is that in the military, there are real problems with sexual assault of women soldiers and CO's covering it up, to the point that there is serious talk of taking prosecuting these out of the military, and it is not small, the number of incidents of women being sexually assaulted and raped is pretty high....whereas same sex harassment and rape (and if you think gays have not been in the military, you need to do some reading) have happened in a same sex fashion, but even given that the number of gays serving is let's say representative of their population as a whole, it is tiny in comparison. Among other things, gay men simply don'y have the attitudes about men that many men have about women; take a look at the track record of men in the NFL, with rape and sexual assault, spousal abuse, and it isn't pretty, I can't think of the last time an NFL player was charged with attempted rape or sexual battery against another man (again, unless you think Sams would be the first gay guy to play football, they exist).

Given the track record of NFL players, it seems like gay men might be a breath of fresh air.

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 6:59:27 AM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

No, of course not.

Particularly in the 82nd, unwanted physical homosexual contact would very often have carried severe consequences. It would have been almost unthinkable at the high school I attended. Let's just say that humor directed at homosexuals was neither uncommon nor frowned upon....

The fact remains, though, that straight people consider homosexual acts... well, distasteful is the weakest word that I think applies. And they do not want leered at in the shower....

You are showing your age, that is for sure. For one thing, in this day and age, other than among the religiously stupid, very few people consider them "distasteful", a majority of Americans now support same sex marriage, and something like 70% support gays in civil rights and such.....among people younger than 40 it is much larger. In your time, blacks were also relegated to the back of the bus and many whites were scared crapless by blacks, among other things they lived in fear that if the country was integrated, black men would be raping their wives and daughters. To give you an idea, when professional sports were integrated, some white players protested having black teammates, not because of playing on the playing field, but because team members socialize with family and girlfriends and such off the field, and they were afraid for the safety of their wives......

The problem with your whole conjecture is much the same, with whites it was that black men couldn't control themselves sexually around white women, with gays it is that gay men are these sexual predators, and it isn't true. Gay men among themselves can be, as straight men around women can be (ever been to a swingers club or a sex club or a singles bar?). Among other things, gay men understand context.

BTW there was a recent study of female sexuality, where they measured reactions to sexual images..wanna know what was a big turn on among a lot of women? Watching gay male porn, go figure...and there is a pretty strong subculture in women's 'adult' fantasies, with FMM threesomes where the guys have sex, and gay romance books are often bought by straight women, so much for the 'distaste' factor.

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 7:03:51 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Can you please tell me the difference between:

a. Putting a man sexually attracted to men in a locker room full of naked men and,
b. Putting a man sexually attracted to women in a locker room full of naked women?

(The only rational answer, of course, is that more women are likely to appreciate the subsequent leering).

The answer to your question is pretty simple, A happens all the time, B is rare. Unless you think that somehow someone being open and gay makes a difference in how they behave, there have been gay men in locker rooms since organized sports started......there have been gay baseball players, football players, and so forth, and how did they act? Among other things, a gay man playing sports is there to play sports, and if he is attracted to someone, he isn't likely to let it get in the way of his playing.

The real answer is that gay men when dealing with 'mixed' company can control themselves better (gay men with other gay men is a bit different..). All I will remind you is that in the military, there are real problems with sexual assault of women soldiers and CO's covering it up, to the point that there is serious talk of taking prosecuting these out of the military, and it is not small, the number of incidents of women being sexually assaulted and raped is pretty high....whereas same sex harassment and rape (and if you think gays have not been in the military, you need to do some reading) have happened in a same sex fashion, but even given that the number of gays serving is let's say representative of their population as a whole, it is tiny in comparison. Among other things, gay men simply don'y have the attitudes about men that many men have about women; take a look at the track record of men in the NFL, with rape and sexual assault, spousal abuse, and it isn't pretty, I can't think of the last time an NFL player was charged with attempted rape or sexual battery against another man (again, unless you think Sams would be the first gay guy to play football, they exist).

Given the track record of NFL players, it seems like gay men might be a breath of fresh air.


53% percent of those assaulted in the Military are men, by men who self-identify as heterosexual.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/25/opinion/the-untold-story-of-military-sexual-assault.html?_r=0


Edit: to fix quote box


< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 2/16/2014 7:15:44 AM >

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 7:07:25 AM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

No satire.
I do not think I can express my misgivings any more clearly than I already have.

I can only refer you to my comments/question regarding men in womens locker rooms, Namath, and the absolute fact that Sam, by virtue of making his sexuality a public issue, set himself up to sue his prospective employers.

What you keep forgetting is the reason Namath would be in the cheerleaders locker room. The problem with your argument is that a man in the cheerleaders locker room has no reason to be there, Namath as a QB would have no reason other than to see the girls naked, and that is the difference. It is about context, and it matters, because context also gives the reason why your argument is bogus.

Think about this one, truckinslave, there are a lot of male doctors out there who see female patients nude, all the time, to give them exams, especially gynecologists and OB's.....how come we allow that, if all men will do is lust? It is because doctors are there to treat the patient, and how come we allow male doctors to treat female patients? Yes, problems do happen, and they are dealt with, but the point is, men can control themselves.

The real problem is that many men, when it comes to women, still see them as something they have a right to own, leer at and paw, and they project how they feel towards women onto gay men...only problem is, with men, there isn't such an idea with other men, the problem isn't sexual attraction, the problem is that many men when it comes to women act out their sexual attraction crudely and with some sort of dieu et mon droit; men,gay or otherwise, don't have the same kind of idea about fellow men.

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 7:08:44 AM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

FR...Straight males are often obsessed with the thought that every gay male treat straight men as many straight males treat any woman.

Bingo.....the problem is that many straight men think they have the right to act out towards women like that, it isn't sexual attraction per se, it is in assuming they have the right as men to do that to women.......

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 7:15:27 AM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ


quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Can you please tell me the difference between:

a. Putting a man sexually attracted to men in a locker room full of naked men and,
b. Putting a man sexually attracted to women in a locker room full of naked women?

(The only rational answer, of course, is that more women are likely to appreciate the subsequent leering).

The answer to your question is pretty simple, A happens all the time, B is rare. Unless you think that somehow someone being open and gay makes a difference in how they behave, there have been gay men in locker rooms since organized sports started......there have been gay baseball players, football players, and so forth, and how did they act? Among other things, a gay man playing sports is there to play sports, and if he is attracted to someone, he isn't likely to let it get in the way of his playing.

The real answer is that gay men when dealing with 'mixed' company can control themselves better (gay men with other gay men is a bit different..). All I will remind you is that in the military, there are real problems with sexual assault of women soldiers and CO's covering it up, to the point that there is serious talk of taking prosecuting these out of the military, and it is not small, the number of incidents of women being sexually assaulted and raped is pretty high....whereas same sex harassment and rape (and if you think gays have not been in the military, you need to do some reading) have happened in a same sex fashion, but even given that the number of gays serving is let's say representative of their population as a whole, it is tiny in comparison. Among other things, gay men simply don'y have the attitudes about men that many men have about women; take a look at the track record of men in the NFL, with rape and sexual assault, spousal abuse, and it isn't pretty, I can't think of the last time an NFL player was charged with attempted rape or sexual battery against another man (again, unless you think Sams would be the first gay guy to play football, they exist).

53% percent of those assaulted in the Military are men, by men who self-identify as heterosexual.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/25/opinion/the-untold-story-of-military-sexual-assault.html?_r=0

Given the track record of NFL players, it seems like gay men might be a breath of fresh air.




That is interesting but I guess it shouldn't be so surprising, rape is a crime of anger and power as much as sex.....what is interesting is that most of the perps id as straight, what that says is that men in the locker room should be afraid of other men in general..the military is also a bit different than real life, 'situational homosexuality' is very common in the military, like with prison, where men are forced into situations where all they are around is other men, you go on active duty or on a military base as this person was (1974), it is all male for long periods of time....difference with a sports team is you only are there for short durations.

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 7:23:19 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		God help some of these posters if they ever went to a nude beach because there's GASSSSSP gay men there too and they might LOOKATCHA.

I got news for the homophobes in the crowd. According to the Kinsey report, about 1 in 3 American males will willingly engage in same sex behavior during their life. this means that if you're sitting around with your 2 best friends having a few beers and none of them have ever sucked a cock, it's YOU.

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 7:23:41 AM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline 		In some ways it isn't all that much different than male to female trans people face with restrooms, it is often one of the most controversial and difficult things to deal with. The automatic assumption is that a M to F trans person would be like a 'man' in there, that they are using the facilities to 'leer' at women, rather than the reality, that most people go to the bathroom to relieve themselves and get out as as soon as possible. Yes, women's rooms are a bit more intimate than the slime pits that pass as men's rooms, women do take the time to check themselves in the mirror, check their makeup, depending on the kind of restroom, but even so, you go in there, do your business and leave, and for someone who id's as a woman, it isn't different, but the natural reaction is there, primarily because of the way many men behave towards women. The irony is speaking from experience, going into a women's room for a transwoman can be nerve wracking, and the last thing anyone would want to do is attract attention, getting in and out as fast as possible is a means of protecting yourself and also not making anyone else nervous. An openly gay athlete would be a lot less likely to leer or 'look' than a closeted one, because he knows there will be those, as with some women in a restroom with someone who doesn't 'look right', who are just looking to see if they are 'doing something wrong'. I fortunately never ran into that, as one funny woman in a women's bar told me when I first started going there "as long as you don't wear a ton of perfume and stink up the place, long as you don't pee standing up and leave the toilet seat up, ya got no problems".....point being, if I behaved with respect and decorum, I was welcome...

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/16/2014 7:33:15 AM   
njlauren


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Joined: 10/1/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

God help some of these posters if they ever went to a nude beach because there's GASSSSSP gay men there too and they might LOOKATCHA.

I got news for the homophobes in the crowd. According to the Kinsey report, about 1 in 3 American males will willingly engage in same sex behavior during their life. this means that if you're sitting around with your 2 best friends having a few beers and none of them have ever sucked a cock, it's YOU.

It is funny, a nude beach is a pretty good example of why the fears with the locker room are unfounded. People assume you go to a nude beach all the guys will instantly have hard ons looking at the women (or other men), but it doesn't happen, it basically becomes a non issue. Do you note how other people look? Sure, women has big breasts or small ones, to a certain extent guys dongles, but it becomes like blond versus brunette , short, tall, fat, skinny, just part of who the person is......the answer is most people who go to nude beaches go there because they like being nude, not to leer..and those who assume nude beaches are these theaters of lust are those who project their own stupidity on it, like the woman who sat right on the line between a clothing optional section and a fully clothed one, then complained loudly if anyone undressed came too near the line..it is like lady, there was plenty of room on the clothed beach, why did you sit right on the line? Those most complaining about this are like that woman, creating a tsimmis based in their own fear and ignorance.

And yeah, it is ironic that the NFL, with people like Darren Sharper (now retired), busted for drugging and raping women; Dante Stallworth, killed someone driving drunk; Michael Vick, animal cruelty; Kellem Winslow, JR, public masturbation and drugs; guns; being involved in murder (Aaron Hernandez); spousal abuse (too many to list); sex with underage girls; assault and the list goes on, but they are all 'moral' enough to play in the NFL. I also find it pathetic when I hear black's speaking in moral outrage at 'the immorality' of gay players, when you have people like Antonio Cromarte (8 or 9 kids by 7 different women) or Ray Lewis (besides murder, 6 kids from 4 different women, not married to any of them), and the list is pretty long, and where is the outrage there? I joked that the team I love to hate, the Jets, would never draft him, because he hasn't been busted for drugs, public lewdness, gun possession and obviously doesn't have umpteen kids by different women, definitely wouldn't fit in...

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/17/2014 7:24:40 PM   
truckinslave


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quote:

other than among the religiously stupid,


Bye now

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ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/17/2014 7:39:05 PM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		So according to the cynics in the crowd, Sam's coming out was a set-up to get/keep on the gravy train forever?

How about it simply being a statement of self?!

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/17/2014 7:39:40 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

other than among the religiously stupid,


Bye now

tata

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RE: Texas Sports Anchor Delivers Jaw-Dropping Speech On... - 2/17/2014 8:07:08 PM   
dcnovice


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Status: offline 		FR

I sometimes suspect the real fear of insecure straight guys in a locker room is the ego blow they'll suffer when they don't get checked out.

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