RE: Are you a Slave? (Full Version)

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DesFIP -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/15/2014 9:40:58 PM)

I simply define it as that he has the right to make any decision he wants to make. Which has included not letting me take the car to the shop because he was sure he could fix the a c himself. He couldn't and it was the summer from hell. But he makes the decisions and if necessary I suffer for it.

Although he said I could make brussel sprouts just for me, when we were at the store and I picked up a package, he told me to put them back. I did. I wasn't thrilled about it but I did it.




RemoteUser -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/15/2014 10:06:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

Do you identify as a Slave?


1. Only in the parental sense, I won't give the corporates the satisfaction.

quote:

Why do you see yourself as a slave?


2. Let's see. I wake him and put him to bed, feed him, clothe him, give him shelter, provide for his education; make notes of where he likes to eat, what toys he wants for Christmas, which foods are the healthiest choices for his lunches and suppers; monitor and provide all forms of electronic entertainment (anything from television to any of the PlayStation platforms, to turning the PC monitor to face the kitchen so we can watch "La Linea" on youtube); help him select books for advancing his reading skills; set his medications out for consumption with his breakfast...

Really, do I need to say any more than this? (And there is more.)

quote:

How do you define slavery?


3. Providing for the whims, interests and betterment of another individual who requests (and sometimes demands) them.


So does anyone else miss Bill Cosby? Just sayin.







CreativeDominant -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/15/2014 10:12:59 PM)

In case you didn't notice, the end line of my post was the following: YMMV...the above is my opinion only.

Feel free to call yourself whatever you want behind closed doors. Feel free to call yourself what you want out in the open. I don't tell anyone what they can call themselves. If asked...or pushed...I will state my opinion. If others agree with me, yay. If they agree with you, yay. If you find that the majority does not, you are still free to call yourself what you want.

Blame it on the life I've led...on the teachers I've had...whatever you wish to blame it on, free-styling when it comes to semantics does not work for me. BUT again...that is MHOO. YMMV.




pg4g -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/15/2014 11:33:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nakhla

For me, it's not so much my definitions as having the following conversation a lot:

Them: "Are you a sub or slave?"

Me: "I'm pretty open about definitions, I'm submissive in personality."

Them: "Oh, I'm looking for someone who submits all the time not just in the bedroom."

I don't actually run across the term "BDSM bottom" a lot outside the munch scene and these boards. Among gay men, bottom is just which position you're in during anal sex, sub/submissive refers to anything beyond that. There are dom bottoms out there!

Again, these are not my definitions, so much as those of the general milieu of my dating pool.


Lol I have yet to get involved with the gay BDSM community but I have this easy: versatile &switch. I'm just one lucky bastard! [;)]

I was lucky I happened to fall in love with a guy who happened to be vers switch in exactly the way that complimented me, before I fully understood myself like that. So that's why the lack of understanding in the area of gay-specific definitions haha




myotherself -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/15/2014 11:40:43 PM)

Master and I have our own definitions of bdsm roles. We call ourselves Master and slave, and that suits us. We aren't part of the local community and we couldn't give a flying fuck how others feel about our definitions or if we offend anyone by the way we live our lives or what we call each other.






hlen5 -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 11:18:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

A regular poster who identified as property once posted "It was her Master's decision whether or not she continue breathing ". If I understood her history correctly, she would have internalized her slavery to the bone.

I was just thinking of her the other day and wondering what would happen if he decided she not continue. Would she fight in the end? I'd like to think so. If that's the case, then consensual slavery is an artificial construct.

And to answer the OP, no.

ETA: I haven't seen that property post here in years, by the way.



I admit, this is Master and I pretty much. It's his decision....about anything...period. I am his slave, his property, his "it". It's not a term we take lightly and not without really knowing who we both are. We both are comfortable with our terms and places. His choices, his decisions. Nothing is off limits.

Webster's Dictionary:

"1
: a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
2
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence
3
: a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another
4
: drudge, toiler "


Are you agreeing to both the bolded parts (Ignore the bolded ETA)?




kalikshama -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 2:25:43 PM)

FR,

ResidentSadist on why labels are important:

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4554967

Sometimes things are exclusive. Either labels matter or they don't. And I call bullshit on you for sitting on the fence and agreeing with both sides. That's a crock. If we don't define, discuss or argue about a label's meaning, it has no definition and it isn't really a label is it? If I pick up a can of tomato soup and there is chicken soup inside, what was the point of having a label? So pick a side if your really you do agree that labels matter, how can you not agree that their definitions don't matter? I spoke on this topic before:

-=Letter=-

Dear anti-label coalition:

The recurrent sub/slave definition requests from newcomers always seem to rally your anti-label coalition and you say there are no real definitions instead of helping define the language and terms we do use in our lifestyle. Shame on you.

You preach that we should all meet with open hearts and open minds and not label ourselves at all. You are hypocrites because you gender label yourself as male, female or transsexual as well as listing your sexual relationship preferences as gay, straight or otherwise in order communicate who you are. Why should we stop there . . . because you do? Why not use the commonly accepted roles and definitions created by the needs of BDSM community to define ourselves like sub/slave/bottom/switch/Master/Dom/Top. I can’t believe you spread misinformation to newcomers about the lack meanings or definitions for common BDSM terms in relationship roles. Shame on you.

I know why you label your sexual preferences, because it is dangerous not to. I learned that lesson well in my youth because I grew up in the gay/pansexual community. Shemales (drag queens) were called women and lived life in that role. More than one fem fatale found herself beaten or worse because she (he) didn’t label herself properly to their prospective new lover or client. When the nut sack was discovered, they were beaten and some were even killed.

These poor young new shemales weren’t warned. They were insulated from the straight world and had their heads fluffed with things like “labels don’t matter” or they got role reinforcement like “you’re a real woman” like in my gazelle parable (see below). On behalf of all my young shemale friends that suffered and all the BDSM newcomers here on collarme that ask for definitions and will suffer at the hands of your lies and misinformation, I say you are dangerous! Shame on you.

My attitude that you are dangerous in your deceptions about labels being meaningless applies even though a slave or submissive may not end up dead from mislabeling or a lack of, they will suffer even though others in our broad pansexual kink family have found incorrect information fatal. Labels and definitions for our roles are good, use them well and let them define your base not confine your reach. Shame on those that claim they have no meaning or don’t apply!

Sincerely,
Kalon Eric

-=Gazelle Parable=-
To those that preach there is no definable difference or categorization difference between a slave and submissive, I disagree from a social perspective. I agree that personally, in the end, all that matters between just two people is whether or not they’re happy. It doesn’t matter if they call themselves goldfish, zebras, vampires or Martians. However when it comes to interfacing socially with others, I offer you this proverb I crafted:

There once were two young gazelles. They were sleek and fast and beautiful. They loved to play games and lived a passionate and fulfilling life joining the gazelle community. Once they joined in the gazelle community, some mean gazelles decided to trick them. The mean gazelles filled the happy young gazelles minds with misinformation. They said that being happy was all that matted, no matter what they called themselves.

The young gazelles decided to call themselves lions. They went out in the grass together and had role play, doing lion’s games and reporting back to their friends and debating about how lions “really and truly” lived. They believed they were lions.

One day while strolling along the road, an older lion was walking along when suddenly two happy young gazelles came up and jumped into his mouth proclaiming, “look we are lions too”. …so he ate them.

Moral: There are many successfully mutually mis-categorized relationships. God bless them all but, don’t preach your ignorance to others or you may get them killed (see letter above).




ResidentSadist -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 2:28:54 PM)

.




chatterbox24 -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 2:46:32 PM)

I am NOT a slave. Slavery to me means you lose all rights, you do it whether you agree or believing it or not. You are not allowed to act on any of your gut instinct and lose your self identity. Slavery would not be for me and would be very unhealthy. If others identify with slave and it makes them happy and inspires them, then its a okay with me. Its none of my business.




kiwisub12 -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 4:43:58 PM)

My first live-in longterm relationship was with a dom who set the rules. And I followed them, or there wouldn't have been a relationship.

Did that make me a slave? I don't know. What it made me was happy. And safe. And did I mention - very happy?

There were things we didn't do because he didn't like them or I didn't like them. We really didn't care what we were - he was my dominant and I was his. And he was mine.

He was little taken aback the first time I announced that if I was his, then he was mine. After a time, he came to like the idea, because ownership implies responsibility and care.[:)]




JeffBC -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 5:58:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
Do you identify as a Slave?
Why do you see yourself as a slave?
How do you define slavery?

No, No, and I don't.

Some time ago this used to be an interesting question to me. More recently trying to put a label on our dynamic seems kind of pointless. Trying to apply a BDSM label is beyond pointless since they are universally undefined. Carol is no longer my property by my definition. I've never much cared about the definitions from the BDSM world which were, in my assessment, so full of holes that they were meaningless.

quote:

Is it really just Consensual Non-consent. and what is that in your view?? [:D]

That is an oxymoron tossed around by people's whose intent is to confuse. It's akin to "fight a war for peace".




ExiledTyrant -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 6:06:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC


No, No, and I don't.

Some time ago this used to be an interesting question to me. More recently trying to put a label on our dynamic seems kind of pointless. Trying to apply a BDSM label is beyond pointless since they are universally undefined. Carol is no longer my property by my definition. I've never much cared about the definitions from the BDSM world which were, in my assessment, so full of holes that they were meaningless.



1. You're not Gorean.
2. You're not BDSM.
3. You're not in a D/s dynamic.
4. As per your post, you do not care how the people in this community define WIITTD.

Then why, pray tell, are we suffering your indifference?

Exiled




smileforme50 -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 7:03:15 PM)

Honestly....even though my profile says I am a "slave"....I'm still not 100% sure where I sit on the spectrum of all of this. As FieryOpal mentioned:

quote:

Are you a slave without a Master/Mistress?
Can you be a Master/Mistress without a slave?

Not to get technical about it, but it's worth considering. If you have previous experience, then you can rightly call yourself these epithets. Otherwise, it's just wishful thinking, and you may actually be a Top or a bottom and not even a Dominant or submissive to begin with.


My profile says that I am a "slave", but really, I only did that because a Dom I have been getting to know over the last 6 months asked me to change it. It's really not a big deal to me what my profile says.

The funny thing is....I have had MANY friends....Dom and sub.... tell me that they think I have the mind, mentality, heart, soul, spirit....whatever....of a slave.....But I've also had a few friends tell me that I would probably be a good Domme too. I just laugh at that one. Go figure.




JeffBC -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 8:05:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
Then why, pray tell, are we suffering your indifference?

Dunno. You'd have to answer that for yourself, no? The hide button is just right over there <---




FieryOpal -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 8:07:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

Honestly....even though my profile says I am a "slave"....I'm still not 100% sure where I sit on the spectrum of all of this.

My profile says that I am a "slave"....
... they think I have the mind, mentality, heart, soul, spirit....whatever....of a slave.....But I've also had a few friends tell me that I would probably be a good Domme too. I just laugh at that one. Go figure.

Have you found, though, that since you changed your designation, you get contacted by more "Kneel bitch"-attitude Doms than before?

Perhaps you should reserve this to mark a special occasion with your next Dom, not something to be taken lightly. Also, depending on who you get with, you might find you have more of a switch's temperament. It would be misleading to pre-label yourself.

I think I understand what JeffBC meant about no longer calling or seeing his lady as his slave.
Btw Exiled, from what little I've read, it would appear this couple is very much in a D/s relationship dynamic, so I don't know where you inferred they weren't. One's degree of BDSM kinkiness doesn't define Dominance and submission, of which I'm sure you're already well-informed. [:)]




ARIES83 -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 9:08:09 PM)

Kalikshama,
I've found myself wanting to quote RS from time to time as well.

ResidentSadist,
Good post! Though your story "crafting" could use some work...

LittleWonder,
Thanks for offering your opinions, they regularly challenge my views of what I think I know, with the unassailable facts of your reality.


I don't know if I agree with the people who say consensual non-consent isn't a thing.
I do think that our own definitions are the most important factor, just due to the fact that what I see a slave being feels very right to me, but at the same time I am quite sure it would be a unique definition, probably sharing a likeness to what others picture it being. But uniquely suited to my sensibilities.

What I picture a vanilla woman being, compared to a submissive woman, compared to a slave. Does have distinct parameters in my mind, and they take the form of progressive degrees of power exchange.
I hesitate to use the word "levels" as women (or men) of course, aren't Pokemon.

And to those who say topics like this are useless or don't matter, I'd like you to keep in mind that I'm not trying to debunk or pigeonhole anyone, rather am exploring my own questions and ideas by throwing them out there.




Nakhla -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 9:16:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

A hesitate to use the word "levels" as women (or men) of course, aren't Pokemon.



Good thing, too. We'd ALL be stuck in pokeballs by now. [:D]




JeffBC -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 9:48:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
I don't know if I agree with the people who say consensual non-consent isn't a thing.

I don't think the underlying concept "isn't a thing". I think the phrase is an oxymoron and oxymorons are typically used to cloud an issue rather than clarify it. In the end I don't really understand what the issue is.... someone either consents or they do not. That consent is either "free" or under sufficient duress to disqualify it as consent. None of it changes whether the underlying dynamic is good for the participants or bad for one or both of them.

quote:

What I picture a vanilla woman being, compared to a submissive woman, compared to a slave. Does have distinct parameters in my mind, and they take the form of progressive degrees of power exchange. A hesitate to use the word "levels" as women (or men) of course, aren't Pokemon.

LOL, good for avoiding the use of "levels". The real problem with that concept is that this isn't a one-dimensional scale of "less power exchange" to "more power exchange". There are many different vectors. Each vector carries with it unique challenges and opportunities for each couple. You just can't say, "He's a 7.296 on the submissive scale" with any seriousness.

quote:

And to those who say topics like this are useless or don't matter, I'd like you to keep in mind that I'm not trying to debunk or pigeonhole anyone, rather am exploring my own questions and ideas by throwing them out there.

If it helps you any, I've always constructed the idea of "property" with the idea that if I cannot own her via external means (the law, societal custom, etc) then the only thing left is internal means. That's where I get to the internal obedience business. If I can control her thoughts then there's a pretty decent claim to saying "I own her". We've lost that state in our relationship so now she is "not mine" although she remains the submissive woman who loves and respects me a great deal and will still obey almost any external obedience command (eg: do this rather than think this).

And to the "pro label brigade", sign me up. I've never much cared WHAT label is applied. I just like clarity in communication. But honestly, there is no canonical source here and 3/4 of BDSM is wrapped up in fantasy (and I mean that in a good way rather than a derogatory one). But fantasy admits to no rules. So I abandoned the task as hopeless and possibly damaging since that fantasy aspect is a important part of BDSM. In the end, it's also worth pointing out what KnightofMysts said of labels some time ago. Carol is clearly and objectively "my wife" because there IS a canonical source for that. But honestly, what does that tell you about her, me, and our relationship beyond we signed a piece of paper somewhere?

Finally, to ExiledTyrant. What makes you think I am indifferent other than you've got a bug up your butt about me? I'm indifferent to incoherently defined and applied labels, yes. I am very much NOT indifferent to the actual people who post on these boards and the actual relationships they portray. Kudos to you though, you may be the first person in my entire life who has called me "indifferent". I always like it when I get accused of new shit.




Greta75 -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/16/2014 10:02:01 PM)

Fast Reply

Initially when I first got onto this site, I didn't realise the word slave was such a big deal. I mean, it is a big deal in the real world and what that word means, but I thought in the kinky world, that is just a playful word.
To me, I like the whole sexual slavery fantasy thing and playing it out. For me, it's just fantasy and play. I mean next weekend, I'm gonna dress like a skanky whore and go pick up my fbuddy at a place that is filled with whores looking for clients. And we are gonna negotiate my fee lol, which he is gonna pay me in monopoly money. All in good fun! And in this game, I am not playing the role of a willing whore, I am playing the role of human trafficked whore, so there is gonna be some rape and brutality involved, but hey, it's all role play. For me to enjoy things like that, I have to feel safe and it's all fun and games.

So I learn now from here that if you identify yourself with the word "Slave", it means seriously giving up your free will and your personal human rights.

That I will never be willing to do ever!

And I was thinking this specific fbuddy of mine, he said he has fantasies of fucking a whore, but he will never ever do a real one. He believes prostitution is real life slavery still happening in this world and he does not approve of slavery. It's only fun for him if the woman genuinely enjoys what she's doing.





ARIES83 -> RE: Are you a Slave? (2/17/2014 2:24:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
If it helps you any, I've always constructed the idea of "property" with the idea that if I cannot own her via external means (the law, societal custom, etc) then the only thing left is internal means. That's where I get to the internal obedience business. If I can control her thoughts then there's a pretty decent claim to saying "I own her". We've lost that state in our relationship so now she is "not mine" although she remains the submissive woman who loves and respects me a great deal and will still obey almost any external obedience command (eg: do this rather than think this).


It does help a great deal, "Internal Slavery", I'd forgotten about that term and I actually remember... I think it was Orion, recommended this site once upon a time and I never found the time to explore it unfortunately.
http://www.enslavement.org.uk/

So I think I'll do that now.




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