RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (Full Version)

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crazyml -> RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (2/23/2014 3:22:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Find another halo. That one's too big for you. I wasn't attacking any side. I was drawing a distinction between freedom of speech and wholesale murder.

K.
[/font][/size]


Yeah, I agree with you, the distinction is important.

People should be free to speak, even to offend.

There comes a nasty complicated line where speech might be reasonably seen to be inciting violence and hate, the anti Islam sign comes nowhere near that though - albeit that it think it's a stupid and nasty thing to say.

Likewise the atheist prop you posted... it's a bit fucking churlish and silly, but it's not inciting murder or violence.





thishereboi -> RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (2/23/2014 5:21:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Another foot shot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

This is where k got his poop-chart...

www.loonwatch.com

Lol!.... Loon watch...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/

Thanks for pointing this out Tweek...

K.



Actually I used two links only one of which you have listed. The other link was:
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005/terror02_05#terror_05sum

The loonwatch site credits its data source as the FBI site. So the original source for the data is the FBI site. Am I safe in assuming that we can all agree that the FBI data is both authoritative and neutral?




You would have to ask 59 that. He is the one who erroneously credited the link to K and claimed it wasn't worth looking at. Or course that was after he thanked you for it so who knows.




thishereboi -> RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (2/23/2014 5:24:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The point I was trying to make is to assume that all Muslims are terrorists or anti American because of 9/11, considering the one sided body count since, really makes no sense what so ever.




You are right. that would be as stupid as suggesting all religions are intolerant because of one sign.



May I point out that since 9/11, the sentiment expressed in that sign has been pretty common on the right side of the fence? I cannot say it is the majority, but it is a rarity to see someone on the right come out in disagreement on the sentiment, quite common for some to effectively avoid the subject all together, kinda like trying to ignore the elephant in the room.



So you are saying you weren't really going after religion in the OP but it's the right that has you pissed off. Ok, in that case it would be as stupid as suggesting that everyone on the right is intolerant based on one sign. Bigotry is ignorant no matter what group you are aiming at.




jlf1961 -> RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (2/23/2014 5:46:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The point I was trying to make is to assume that all Muslims are terrorists or anti American because of 9/11, considering the one sided body count since, really makes no sense what so ever.




You are right. that would be as stupid as suggesting all religions are intolerant because of one sign.



May I point out that since 9/11, the sentiment expressed in that sign has been pretty common on the right side of the fence? I cannot say it is the majority, but it is a rarity to see someone on the right come out in disagreement on the sentiment, quite common for some to effectively avoid the subject all together, kinda like trying to ignore the elephant in the room.



So you are saying you weren't really going after religion in the OP but it's the right that has you pissed off. Ok, in that case it would be as stupid as suggesting that everyone on the right is intolerant based on one sign. Bigotry is ignorant no matter what group you are aiming at.


Gee, fail reading comprehension in school?

How about I explain it in simple terms.

1) The Conservatives and Christian right need a boogyman in order to gain followers, the old "tell the people what to be afraid of, and then point to a cause for that fear." propaganda crap.

2) In the past (probably before your time) it was the "Godless" "Evil Empire" the Soviet Union. (Doesnt matter that the guy running Russia right now was a KGB hardliner and would love to see the Soviet Union resurrected)

3) Then there was 9/11. Since then Christian right groups have denounced Islam, fanatics have tried to fire bomb mosques in the name of Jesus, and GOP politicians seem perfectly content to look blindly at the problem and say absofuckinglutely nothing condemning the problem.

4) Then you have the "truthers" on the right making the repeatedly debunked claims that Obama is a secret Muslim, was born outside the US, and is trying to promote sharia law in the US.

5) Of course it does not help that Michelle Bachman is also making the same claims (with no proof and completely groundless) and stirring up the crazies even more.

6) And the final point, while there have been some attempted terrorist activities on or above US soil, the shoe bomber, the underwear bomber, the idiot that built a car bomb and tried to detonate it in times square using fireworks, there hasnt been a successful attack in the US.

As I already pointed out, Islamic extremist have killed more Muslims since 9/11 in the middle east, and other Muslim countries trying to extend their area of control.

Does any of this sound like a problem, or are you going to insist that I am bastardizing the right for my own personal jollies?

For the record, I have spoken against the left on many occasions on the topic of gun control, and Obama the idiot screwing things up so badly it will take a generation for this country to recover.

Both the left and the right have their collective heads so far up their asses, every time they sneeze they have to change their fucking underwear.

And instead of discussing a problem people like you turn it into a "you are bashing the right" crap fest.

No if you dont see that billboard as presenting an intolerant attitude against a portion of the US and world's population because of a very small percentage of that group's population, then hey, must be nice to have a pair of rose colored glasses.




ChristianDomCA -> RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (2/24/2014 2:53:31 AM)

We do have religious tolerance in the USA. For example, The Church of Scientology is growing in the USA. In other parts of the world they are shunned. Muslims are growing in the USA.




jlf1961 -> RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (2/24/2014 5:18:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChristianDomCA

We do have religious tolerance in the USA. For example, The Church of Scientology is growing in the USA. In other parts of the world they are shunned. Muslims are growing in the USA.


Yup, religious tolerance...

Lets see....
Protests about the "ground zero mosque" very tolerant.
Protests by tolerant Americans in Tennessee about a Mosque being built.
Attempted fire bombing of a mosque in Florida..

Or you could just read FBI: Dramatic Spike in Hate Crimes Targeting Muslims or any of the links here.




thishereboi -> RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (2/24/2014 5:27:43 AM)

So sorry, didn't mean to get your panties all wadded up there. I was merely pointed out that the one situation was just as stupid as the other. Now you can come up with examples of assholes on the right or left all day, it won't change my point at all.




ChristianDomCA -> RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (2/24/2014 8:58:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


Yup, religious tolerance...

Lets see....
Protests about the "ground zero mosque" very tolerant.
Protests by tolerant Americans in Tennessee about a Mosque being built.
Attempted fire bombing of a mosque in Florida..

Or you could just read FBI: Dramatic Spike in Hate Crimes Targeting Muslims or any of the links here.


You make a very good case. However, if you google "Religious Tolerance" you will find many articles describing how the courts went to great length to protect people of various faiths, especially the article on Wikipedia.




OsideGirl -> RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (2/24/2014 9:06:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChristianDomCA

We do have religious tolerance in the USA. For example, The Church of Scientology is growing in the USA.

Actually evidence points to Scientology shrinking, not growing.

http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/so-how-big-is-the-church-of-scientology-really/

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/10-million-scientologists-where-are-they/

http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Scientology-Americas-Secretive-Religion-ebook/dp/B004X7TLU6/ref=sr_1_3?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1393261560&sr=1-3&keywords=scientology




ChristianDomCA -> RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (2/24/2014 9:13:03 AM)

Actually evidence points to Scientology shrinking, not growing.

http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/so-how-big-is-the-church-of-scientology-really/

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/10-million-scientologists-where-are-they/

http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Scientology-Americas-Secretive-Religion-ebook/dp/B004X7TLU6/ref=sr_1_3?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1393261560&sr=1-3&keywords=scientology
[/quote]

I did read those links and they do point out that the Church of Scientology is shrinking. However, I can put just as many links showing that the Church of Scientology is growing. Lol.... the wonders of the Internet.The Statistics and Growth of Scientology

"No religion in history has spread as fast or as far in as short a time as Scientology. Today it is practiced in more than 30 languages in 129 countries on every continent."




Tkman117 -> RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (2/24/2014 9:17:25 AM)

Biased much? That's a scientologist website, not a 3rd party. Of course they're going to say they're religion is growing, they want to seem as though they're gaining momentum. When you take a step back and look at it from a 3rd party perspective, scientology IS shrinking. Truth is singular, versions of the truth are mistruths, which is what you're saying now. Look at your sources before you post, bias should always be considered otherwise you make yourself look silly.




OsideGirl -> RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (2/24/2014 9:24:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Biased much? That's a scientologist website, not a 3rd party. Of course they're going to say they're religion is growing, they want to seem as though they're gaining momentum. When you take a step back and look at it from a 3rd party perspective, scientology IS shrinking. Truth is singular, versions of the truth are mistruths, which is what you're saying now. Look at your sources before you post, bias should always be considered otherwise you make yourself look silly.


Exactly. The last link I posted was a book written by someone that was never a Scientologist and it gives a a pretty unvarnished look at the history of the religion. Scientology prides itself on being disingenuous, so posting their link would be like posting RJ Reynolds views to support an argument that cigarettes aren't designed to be addicting.




jlf1961 -> RE: Religous Tolerance in the United States.... (2/24/2014 10:56:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChristianDomCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


Yup, religious tolerance...

Lets see....
Protests about the "ground zero mosque" very tolerant.
Protests by tolerant Americans in Tennessee about a Mosque being built.
Attempted fire bombing of a mosque in Florida..

Or you could just read FBI: Dramatic Spike in Hate Crimes Targeting Muslims or any of the links here.


You make a very good case. However, if you google "Religious Tolerance" you will find many articles describing how the courts went to great length to protect people of various faiths, especially the article on Wikipedia.



Who the hell was talking about the government? You think a government agency put up that billboard?

I never said the government had anything to do with it. President Bush got ripped a new ass for a Torah being put in the White House, and hosting a Muslim feast during Ramadan.

And let us not forget "Obama is a secret Muslim" extreme right wing conspiracy.

I am talking about John Q Citizen who is screaming about Sharia law coming to the US, that all Muslims are out to kill us for our beliefs. You know, the grandchildren of the Americans that supported the idea of putting second, third and fourth generation Japanese Americans in Internment camps?




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