quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/18/opinion/liu-perkins-rich-have-more-votes/
I think the above article really points out some problems in our representative government. The top 1 percent, which is a popular way to separate the rich from the…not so rich, have a greater influence on elections than the remaining 99 percent.
Yes they vote at a higher rate then the rest of us but that isn’t the real reason. Poor often do not vote out of a feeling of hopelessness and frustration and this leads to the disparity of voting.
What gives them the unfair advantage and influence as you can imagine is money… money to donate to politicians and political parties. They influence policy, legislation, and pay for lobbyists…this allows them to control elections in ways that is impossible for the average voter.
It can be stopped with one simple law…. Limit political donations to individuals and set a maximum amount at $5,000.
This simple law would take the power from the rich and put it back in the hands of the majority.
I am not sure if this law would be constitutional but if it is not it would be worth a Constitutional amendment.
Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/18/opinion/liu-perkins-rich-have-more-votes/


I think the above article really points out some problems in our representative government. The top 1 percent, which is a popular way to separate the rich from the…not so rich, have a greater influence on elections than the remaining 99 percent.

Yes they vote at a higher rate then the rest of us but that isn’t the real reason. Poor often do not vote out of a feeling of hopelessness and frustration and this leads to the disparity of voting.

What gives them the unfair advantage and influence as you can imagine is money… money to donate to politicians and political parties. They influence policy, legislation, and pay for lobbyists…this allows them to control elections in ways that is impossible for the average voter.

It can be stopped with one simple law…. Limit political donations to individuals and set a maximum amount at $5,000.

This simple law would take the power from the rich and put it back in the hands of the majority.

I am not sure if this law would be constitutional but if it is not it would be worth a Constitutional amendment.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/18/opinion/liu-perkins-rich-have-more-votes/


I think the above article really points out some problems in our representative government. The top 1 percent, which is a popular way to separate the rich from the…not so rich, have a greater influence on elections than the remaining 99 percent.

Yes they vote at a higher rate then the rest of us but that isn’t the real reason. Poor often do not vote out of a feeling of hopelessness and frustration and this leads to the disparity of voting.

What gives them the unfair advantage and influence as you can imagine is money… money to donate to politicians and political parties. They influence policy, legislation, and pay for lobbyists…this allows them to control elections in ways that is impossible for the average voter.

It can be stopped with one simple law…. Limit political donations to individuals and set a maximum amount at $5,000.

This simple law would take the power from the rich and put it back in the hands of the majority.

I am not sure if this law would be constitutional but if it is not it would be worth a Constitutional amendment.

Butch

I've been one of the 1% for 20+ years.

I quit voting in 2000 (even as I wanted Bush to win) because Gore won. By over 1,000,000 votes.

He was supposed to be the Prez (something tells me he wasn't all that upset about it some years later). He was supposed to be MY Prez. I voted for Bush, but Gore won. As I understood things....my vote mattered.

As importantly....yours. We all agreed to the deal....Gore won.

But my vote didn't matter because the Electoral College determined who my Prez was (and, some would say, the Supreme Court but....Gore won 1,000,000 more popular votes....ergo, I don't at all grasp why the Supremes were even needed in the conversation).

As to giving those who make more money more votes.....absolutely rational.

When George Bush (Jr) wanted to lower tax rates, the wealthy were up in arms (always remember, Google is your friend) exclaiming "we don't need a tax reduction....use it to LOWER THE DEBT!!!!!"

In 1982 when Reagan did the same thing, the wealthy objected as well.

There is a natural ebb and flow in life, as there is in rivers and mountain snow pack.

Wealthy people aren't the ones trying to steal your future (there are some greedy fucks who are wealthy....they're not the uber wealthy....just like there are incredible selfish/stoooopit poor assholes who only want free cheese....they're BOTH the exception).

I've always thought health care for all should be a "right" as with college (with some pay back....2 years of military or some such), but Obamacare is without exception an abomination.

So....not all Republicans are whores and (I'll presume) not all Democrats are there solely for the free cheese.

The truth, like all things....is somewhere in the middle.

It's ironic that in the last 40 some years, the folks who want to lower your taxes (and have) have been Republicans, those who HAVE raised them have been Democrats, including Obama, Democrats have added more to your children's future mortgage in the last 35 years than any Republican in the previous 240 years, and by a factor of 200% in just the last 35 years, that with all the wailing and gnashing of teeth Democrats have of the exceptional differences in wages between those of the haves and the have nots....the haves now pay 80+% of the taxes we all support ourselves with as opposed to less than 51% before Reagan.

Meaning, the have nots, now pay 20% of the taxes before Republicans changed tax law as opposed to 49% before Republicans made tax life easier for those on the lower end of the spectrum.

Is it perfect?

Hardly.

The reason the "haves" have more is because the Republicans lowered tax rates across the board, and the Democrats said "can we still have free cheese...please?"

And the answer was yes. The solution was......DEBT.

And every one of us, Republican and Democrat alike said "May I have some more please, suh?".

And the credit card bill went higher and higher and higher and......

Soooooo....for those that can't do the math, the wealthy got a (HUUUUUUUUGE) tax reduction, the less than wealthy got a (HUUUUUUUUGE) tax reduction, but....the wealthy still had shitloads of money to invest, those who were less wealthy simply had a bit more money.

The wealthy invested (even more, which, for those who can do the math....creates more.....wealth) and the less than wealthy caught up on a few debts (actually, the truth is, they just spent more like they always do....that's why they aren't wealthy).

Clinton raised taxes.

Obama raised taxes but....for all you folks who think that's a good deal....they got those bastards at the high end....that the Democrats are your friends.....they FUCKED you.....

Obamacare fucked you FAR more than the wealthy.

We've got private doctors. You've got Obamacare.

Clinton...he sent all your (then) 12 dollar an hour jobs to Mexico, China and Vietnam all in the name of "fair trade".

Less income by virtue, higher taxes for all....and for those that could least afford it (having lost their jobs thanks to NAFTA, thanks to Democrats), even less to pay those higher taxes with. The wealthy....they had new investments thanks to the significant reduction in taxes, ergo, higher cash flows.

The wealthy's taxes got raised by 4%.

Those less wealthy.....taxes got raised by 2%.

Everyone paid a little more right?

And you lost your jobs thanks to who?

Democrats.

Funny thing is, it's always been Republicans (trying to help out those big manufacturer fat cats) who give out tax credits for buying big equipment (that creates manufacturing jobs). It's always been Republicans who put out big deals like the $250,000.00 tax free gig when you sell your house if you lived in it 2 of the last 5 years (creating housing jobs).

It just always makes me laugh when I listen to people bitch about how Republicans are out to fuck the little guy.

Every time they try to throw money at the little guy (by helping the big guy, who's the one creating jobs), I watch people bitch about how they only got 10 bucks when the big guy got 100 bucks.

Buy a fucking factory.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So because you make more money then some... you think you should have more votes in an election... I just want to get this straight.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Let`s say for argument`s sake, we give everyone a one vote for every dollar the own in Nov 2.


I`ll wager that the total amount of dollars/votes owned by the middle and working classes, far exceeds the total amount of dollars/votes the 1% owns......


They might just do better buying elections with their money......

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/18/opinion/liu-perkins-rich-have-more-votes/


I think the above article really points out some problems in our representative government. The top 1 percent, which is a popular way to separate the rich from the…not so rich, have a greater influence on elections than the remaining 99 percent.

Yes they vote at a higher rate then the rest of us but that isn’t the real reason. Poor often do not vote out of a feeling of hopelessness and frustration and this leads to the disparity of voting.

What gives them the unfair advantage and influence as you can imagine is money… money to donate to politicians and political parties. They influence policy, legislation, and pay for lobbyists…this allows them to control elections in ways that is impossible for the average voter.

It can be stopped with one simple law…. Limit political donations to individuals and set a maximum amount at $5,000.

This simple law would take the power from the rich and put it back in the hands of the majority.

I am not sure if this law would be constitutional but if it is not it would be worth a Constitutional amendment.

Butch

I've been one of the 1% for 20+ years.

I quit voting in 2000 (even as I wanted Bush to win) because Gore won. By over 1,000,000 votes.

He was supposed to be the Prez (something tells me he wasn't all that upset about it some years later). He was supposed to be MY Prez. I voted for Bush, but Gore won. As I understood things....my vote mattered.

As importantly....yours. We all agreed to the deal....Gore won.

But my vote didn't matter because the Electoral College determined who my Prez was (and, some would say, the Supreme Court but....Gore won 1,000,000 more popular votes....ergo, I don't at all grasp why the Supremes were even needed in the conversation).

As to giving those who make more money more votes.....absolutely rational.

When George Bush (Jr) wanted to lower tax rates, the wealthy were up in arms (always remember, Google is your friend) exclaiming "we don't need a tax reduction....use it to LOWER THE DEBT!!!!!"

In 1982 when Reagan did the same thing, the wealthy objected as well.

There is a natural ebb and flow in life, as there is in rivers and mountain snow pack.

Wealthy people aren't the ones trying to steal your future (there are some greedy fucks who are wealthy....they're not the uber wealthy....just like there are incredible selfish/stoooopit poor assholes who only want free cheese....they're BOTH the exception).

I've always thought health care for all should be a "right" as with college (with some pay back....2 years of military or some such), but Obamacare is without exception an abomination.

So....not all Republicans are whores and (I'll presume) not all Democrats are there solely for the free cheese.

The truth, like all things....is somewhere in the middle.

It's ironic that in the last 40 some years, the folks who want to lower your taxes (and have) have been Republicans, those who HAVE raised them have been Democrats, including Obama, Democrats have added more to your children's future mortgage in the last 35 years than any Republican in the previous 240 years, and by a factor of 200% in just the last 35 years, that with all the wailing and gnashing of teeth Democrats have of the exceptional differences in wages between those of the haves and the have nots....the haves now pay 80+% of the taxes we all support ourselves with as opposed to less than 51% before Reagan.

Meaning, the have nots, now pay 20% of the taxes before Republicans changed tax law as opposed to 49% before Republicans made tax life easier for those on the lower end of the spectrum.

Is it perfect?

Hardly.

The reason the "haves" have more is because the Republicans lowered tax rates across the board, and the Democrats said "can we still have free cheese...please?"

And the answer was yes. The solution was......DEBT.

And every one of us, Republican and Democrat alike said "May I have some more please, suh?".

And the credit card bill went higher and higher and higher and......

Soooooo....for those that can't do the math, the wealthy got a (HUUUUUUUUGE) tax reduction, the less than wealthy got a (HUUUUUUUUGE) tax reduction, but....the wealthy still had shitloads of money to invest, those who were less wealthy simply had a bit more money.

The wealthy invested (even more, which, for those who can do the math....creates more.....wealth) and the less than wealthy caught up on a few debts (actually, the truth is, they just spent more like they always do....that's why they aren't wealthy).

Clinton raised taxes.

Obama raised taxes but....for all you folks who think that's a good deal....they got those bastards at the high end....that the Democrats are your friends.....they FUCKED you.....

Obamacare fucked you FAR more than the wealthy.

We've got private doctors. You've got Obamacare.

Clinton...he sent all your (then) 12 dollar an hour jobs to Mexico, China and Vietnam all in the name of "fair trade".

Less income by virtue, higher taxes for all....and for those that could least afford it (having lost their jobs thanks to NAFTA, thanks to Democrats), even less to pay those higher taxes with. The wealthy....they had new investments thanks to the significant reduction in taxes, ergo, higher cash flows.

The wealthy's taxes got raised by 4%.

Those less wealthy.....taxes got raised by 2%.

Everyone paid a little more right?

And you lost your jobs thanks to who?

Democrats.

Funny thing is, it's always been Republicans (trying to help out those big manufacturer fat cats) who give out tax credits for buying big equipment (that creates manufacturing jobs). It's always been Republicans who put out big deals like the $250,000.00 tax free gig when you sell your house if you lived in it 2 of the last 5 years (creating housing jobs).

It just always makes me laugh when I listen to people bitch about how Republicans are out to fuck the little guy.

Every time they try to throw money at the little guy (by helping the big guy, who's the one creating jobs), I watch people bitch about how they only got 10 bucks when the big guy got 100 bucks.

Buy a fucking factory.

Ummmm President Obama passed the largest middle class tax cut in American history.....


Try something other than faux-news....Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....you need to sign up for the circuit.....that's fucking funny shit.


And the 1% wouldn`t make jack shit if it wasn`t for the American consumer market......which is the biggest jobs creator in the world.....or the economic fertile environment paid for by our tax dollars.....


The 1% are the ones who stuck us(the American tax-payer) with their '08'losses......after stealing 17 trillion dollars in American capital and investments....


You`re welcome for the remedial history lesson....Thank you so much for educating me LOL

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Well then I would think you would agree with me that something needs to be done to make your vote and mine mean something... I think taking the big money away from politicians will do just that.

If all anyone could contribute would be a few thousands than politicians will be beholden to the voters not deep pockets... what say you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/18/opinion/liu-perkins-rich-have-more-votes/


I think the above article really points out some problems in our representative government. The top 1 percent, which is a popular way to separate the rich from the…not so rich, have a greater influence on elections than the remaining 99 percent.

Yes they vote at a higher rate then the rest of us but that isn’t the real reason. Poor often do not vote out of a feeling of hopelessness and frustration and this leads to the disparity of voting.

What gives them the unfair advantage and influence as you can imagine is money… money to donate to politicians and political parties. They influence policy, legislation, and pay for lobbyists…this allows them to control elections in ways that is impossible for the average voter.

It can be stopped with one simple law…. Limit political donations to individuals and set a maximum amount at $5,000.

This simple law would take the power from the rich and put it back in the hands of the majority.

I am not sure if this law would be constitutional but if it is not it would be worth a Constitutional amendment.

Butch

I've been one of the 1% for 20+ years.

I quit voting in 2000 (even as I wanted Bush to win) because Gore won. By over 1,000,000 votes.

He was supposed to be the Prez (something tells me he wasn't all that upset about it some years later). He was supposed to be MY Prez. I voted for Bush, but Gore won. As I understood things....my vote mattered.

As importantly....yours. We all agreed to the deal....Gore won.

But my vote didn't matter because the Electoral College determined who my Prez was (and, some would say, the Supreme Court but....Gore won 1,000,000 more popular votes....ergo, I don't at all grasp why the Supremes were even needed in the conversation).

As to giving those who make more money more votes.....absolutely rational.

When George Bush (Jr) wanted to lower tax rates, the wealthy were up in arms (always remember, Google is your friend) exclaiming "we don't need a tax reduction....use it to LOWER THE DEBT!!!!!"

In 1982 when Reagan did the same thing, the wealthy objected as well.

There is a natural ebb and flow in life, as there is in rivers and mountain snow pack.

Wealthy people aren't the ones trying to steal your future (there are some greedy fucks who are wealthy....they're not the uber wealthy....just like there are incredible selfish/stoooopit poor assholes who only want free cheese....they're BOTH the exception).

I've always thought health care for all should be a "right" as with college (with some pay back....2 years of military or some such), but Obamacare is without exception an abomination.

So....not all Republicans are whores and (I'll presume) not all Democrats are there solely for the free cheese.

The truth, like all things....is somewhere in the middle.

It's ironic that in the last 40 some years, the folks who want to lower your taxes (and have) have been Republicans, those who HAVE raised them have been Democrats, including Obama, Democrats have added more to your children's future mortgage in the last 35 years than any Republican in the previous 240 years, and by a factor of 200% in just the last 35 years, that with all the wailing and gnashing of teeth Democrats have of the exceptional differences in wages between those of the haves and the have nots....the haves now pay 80+% of the taxes we all support ourselves with as opposed to less than 51% before Reagan.

Meaning, the have nots, now pay 20% of the taxes before Republicans changed tax law as opposed to 49% before Republicans made tax life easier for those on the lower end of the spectrum.

Is it perfect?

Hardly.

The reason the "haves" have more is because the Republicans lowered tax rates across the board, and the Democrats said "can we still have free cheese...please?"

And the answer was yes. The solution was......DEBT.

And every one of us, Republican and Democrat alike said "May I have some more please, suh?".

And the credit card bill went higher and higher and higher and......

Soooooo....for those that can't do the math, the wealthy got a (HUUUUUUUUGE) tax reduction, the less than wealthy got a (HUUUUUUUUGE) tax reduction, but....the wealthy still had shitloads of money to invest, those who were less wealthy simply had a bit more money.

The wealthy invested (even more, which, for those who can do the math....creates more.....wealth) and the less than wealthy caught up on a few debts (actually, the truth is, they just spent more like they always do....that's why they aren't wealthy).

Clinton raised taxes.

Obama raised taxes but....for all you folks who think that's a good deal....they got those bastards at the high end....that the Democrats are your friends.....they FUCKED you.....

Obamacare fucked you FAR more than the wealthy.

We've got private doctors. You've got Obamacare.

Clinton...he sent all your (then) 12 dollar an hour jobs to Mexico, China and Vietnam all in the name of "fair trade".

Less income by virtue, higher taxes for all....and for those that could least afford it (having lost their jobs thanks to NAFTA, thanks to Democrats), even less to pay those higher taxes with. The wealthy....they had new investments thanks to the significant reduction in taxes, ergo, higher cash flows.

The wealthy's taxes got raised by 4%.

Those less wealthy.....taxes got raised by 2%.

Everyone paid a little more right?

And you lost your jobs thanks to who?

Democrats.

Funny thing is, it's always been Republicans (trying to help out those big manufacturer fat cats) who give out tax credits for buying big equipment (that creates manufacturing jobs). It's always been Republicans who put out big deals like the $250,000.00 tax free gig when you sell your house if you lived in it 2 of the last 5 years (creating housing jobs).

It just always makes me laugh when I listen to people bitch about how Republicans are out to fuck the little guy.

Every time they try to throw money at the little guy (by helping the big guy, who's the one creating jobs), I watch people bitch about how they only got 10 bucks when the big guy got 100 bucks.

Buy a fucking factory.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
(having lost their jobs thanks to NAFTA, thanks to Democrats)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
(having lost their jobs thanks to NAFTA, thanks to Democrats)

This is only partially true. NAFTA was passed by a unanimous Republican coalition, while the Democrats were sharply divided over it. Some Democrats stayed true and opposed NAFTA, but not a single Republican did. Obviously, Clinton supported it and signed it (which was the day I stopped being a Democrat), but only after he was able to flex the Party muscle and bring over enough Democratic holdouts to get that monstrosity passed. A Republican president never could have done that.

But you can't say that NAFTA was "thanks to Democrats," since that would be incorrect. Such a statement implies that Republicans are/were against NAFTA and fought tooth and nail to oppose it. But we both know that's not true, since the Republicans I saw were cumming in their pants and screaming in orgasmic ecstasy over the damn thing.