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RE: First beating - 2/20/2014 10:10:39 AM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejohn1234

I feel very much urged to ask her to ignore my cries and to take me to the level
she sees fit.

Maybe she sees it fit to not ignore your cries... ever thought about that?

You're selfishly wanting her to go to the level you think is right even if she does not want to go there.

Nothing wrong with that in spirit. Just because you're a massochist doesn't mean you shouldn't have your own fantasies about what level you want to take it. But to achieve that, you're going to have to start by admitting that what you're looking for is a woman willing to cater to you during a session, doing what you want, and taking it to the level you want to go.

Currently you're being dishonest about your desires, by making it sound like it's all about going where she wants to go, when in realty, you don't give a rats ass where she wants to go as long as it's far enough to satisfy your desire to feel as if you are being forced.

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RE: First beating - 2/20/2014 11:17:56 AM

pg4g

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Hmmm I don't reckon that's fair, UllrsIshtar.

A lot of subs feel the need to be pushed. And in this case, it sounds like he's extremely... caught in his own need after all this time.

Is it selfish? In this case, yeah. But when a dom/domme starts to spend all her time ignoring her sub's needs like that, it becomes a pretty sad state of affairs. Shaming a sub for one of his needs, or saying "you're not really submissive because you HAVE a need" isn't really a fair evaluation of the man.

Personally my sub side needs to get pushed and my partner was vanilla for the majority of our relationship. I had to push him to start ignoring his worries about me and push me harder, because I needed that. And was it selfish? Yeah, it was. But it was either that, or he'd lose me forever, and that doesn't mean I don't want him in control, doing this stuff, pushing me to do whatever he wants. But sometimes we all have needs, and shaming them like you just did is the act of someone who seems to think a dom/domme doesn't need to care about her sub.

And if a domme was doing that to me, I'd call her a callous bitch and hit her in the face.

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RE: First beating - 2/20/2014 11:27:12 AM

DesFIP

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I have to disagree. Because part of him being the dominant means he gets to set the pace, not me.

So it's his call if I'm ready for something or not, because if he overdoes it and I lose trust in him, that's not good for the relationship.
You can always talk about it afterwards and stress that it was fine and you could have taken more, then next time he can do it harder.

However the op doesn't have a partner. He won't go meet people in the community, he won't even explore with a pro domme. He's been here for years just talking about his fantasies and deliberately not trying to make them come true. There isn't anything we can do to help when he says one thing and does another.

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RE: First beating - 2/20/2014 1:09:08 PM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

Shaming a sub for one of his needs, or saying "you're not really submissive because you HAVE a need" isn't really a fair evaluation of the man.

I didn't do that.

Personally I don't see an issue at all with a submissive having needs/fantasies/wishes. In fact, I would say most all of them do have those things.
They're inherently selfish though, and there is nothing wrong with that. Human beings are inherently selfish a lot of the time, even submissives.

However, what I DO have a problem with is somebody pretending a selfish desire of their own is not their own desire at all, but instead a desire to please another person. Sorry, but that doesn't hold up, if his desire when being beaten is to please his Domme, then his desire would be to take a beating until she wants to stop and he doesn't want that, he wants her to stop when he wants her to stop, even if that's further than she wants to go.

That means his desire for being beaten has got nothing to do with him pleasing a Domme, and everything to do with him living out a fantasy.

Now, there is nothing wrong with that, at all, even in the slightest. And it doesn't even mean that he's not submissie, or that he doesn't desire to please a Domme in a whole bunch of other fashion. But... in the instance of being beaten, it's not about pleasing the Domme for him, it's about wanting her to do what he wants.

And if he wants to get what he's looking for, he needs to start by being honest -to himself and potential partners- about what it is precisely what he's looking for. Claiming that he's looking to please a Domme by dictating to her what to do simple isn't going to get him anywhere, when on the other hand, when he puts out there he's looking for a sadist to mutually explore where his limits are, he may very well get what he wants.

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RE: First beating - 2/20/2014 1:34:22 PM

GoddessManko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

Shaming a sub for one of his needs, or saying "you're not really submissive because you HAVE a need" isn't really a fair evaluation of the man.

I didn't do that.

Personally I don't see an issue at all with a submissive having needs/fantasies/wishes. In fact, I would say most all of them do have those things.
They're inherently selfish though, and there is nothing wrong with that. Human beings are inherently selfish a lot of the time, even submissives.

However, what I DO have a problem with is somebody pretending a selfish desire of their own is not their own desire at all, but instead a desire to please another person. Sorry, but that doesn't hold up, if his desire when being beaten is to please his Domme, then his desire would be to take a beating until she wants to stop and he doesn't want that, he wants her to stop when he wants her to stop, even if that's further than she wants to go.

That means his desire for being beaten has got nothing to do with him pleasing a Domme, and everything to do with him living out a fantasy.

Now, there is nothing wrong with that, at all, even in the slightest. And it doesn't even mean that he's not submissie, or that he doesn't desire to please a Domme in a whole bunch of other fashion. But... in the instance of being beaten, it's not about pleasing the Domme for him, it's about wanting her to do what he wants.

And if he wants to get what he's looking for, he needs to start by being honest -to himself and potential partners- about what it is precisely what he's looking for. Claiming that he's looking to please a Domme by dictating to her what to do simple isn't going to get him anywhere, when on the other hand, when he puts out there he's looking for a sadist to mutually explore where his limits are, he may very well get what he wants.

I totally agree with UllrsIshtar on this one. It really does depend on the context. For young, wet behind the ears subs who are still learning the ins and outs of the lifestyle and what it takes to attract a Dominant partner, you see this often. When you're telling me that after you "finish college, moving to London and then to Singapore", and what part of this is remotely even tied into seeking a dominant? OR even THINKING of the Dominant as an actual person with feelings in a vanilla context.
I think sometimes, more often than it should, you see this kind of selfish submission merely to satiate the kink. I try to correct the young subs even if they may not belong to me because sometimes they're not even aware of how selfish some of their assertions might be.
Earlier today "you should have sat on your sub's face while you..."
Uh...excuse me? Firstly why would I even contemplate being sexual with someone to earn their submission?
It really is angering but I take into consideration their age and lack of experience and gently guide them into realizing the way their disposition should be as a sub.
As far as this Slave John guy, he's 6 YEARS deep in seeking and LadyPact outed him for it. He will be on a perpetual search for years following this one as well I'll bet. He will never make a proactive attempt to be collared. Another kind of sub that just makes my skin crawl, LOL.

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RE: First beating - 2/20/2014 2:11:10 PM

pg4g

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Hey, I'm not saying it's not selfish. And if you read the post, I even said it was selfish.

It just seemed you were suggesting he's selfish, and that he would always just "top from the bottom".

And I gotta admit, that hit close to home for me. Living in a vanilla relationship for a while and just constantly going "I can tell you want to dominate. Grow some balls and stop being so cautious. I need you to control me. Rip me to pieces and hit me!" It went on like that, not allowed to do it outside the relationship, and a partner who couldnt get his head around hurting a loved one, for a long time.

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RE: First beating - 2/20/2014 2:21:21 PM

DesFIP

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But that's not his fault. It's not his responsibility to turn kinky for you. Hell, if it were that easy then why didn't you turn vanilla for him? After all wasn't it just as much your responsibility for giving him what he needed? For that matter, if it's so damned easy to change your basic nature then why couldn't you turn straight? Because you can't. Because you're not wired for it.

And in exactly that way your ex is not wired for kink and/or D/s. The fault lies in both of you for making a commitment without first making damn sure you were sufficiently compatible.

And if you knew you needed this before you went to bed with him, then shame on you for lying by omission. For leading him on, telling him how perfect he was and then demanding he change his orientation.

And for not being able to sit down and talk about sex before having it. That's something I taught my kids, then if you don't feel comfortable talking to the other person about it, then you folks shouldn't be having it.

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RE: First beating - 2/20/2014 2:54:05 PM

pg4g

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Thank you DesFIP for your assumptions: You are wrong.

He knew what I liked before we came into the relationship, but I'll admit my needs did change somewhat as I grew.
I knew he was into it too.
We did talk. Often.
He would say "I want X" and then do nothing.
And for the record, this is not about my ex. This is about my CURRENT partner, who fuckin loves how things are now. We are in love, engaged to be married when the law allows. He and I are perfect for each other.

I made no assumptions, I was open and honest, perhaps too much so. So please stop making such horrible assumptions about me.

< Message edited by pg4g -- 2/20/2014 3:01:40 PM >

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RE: First beating - 2/20/2014 8:01:42 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejohn1234

I still dream of being taught what the cane is REALLY about by a dominant woman.
I feel very much urged to ask her to ignore my cries and to take me to the level
she sees fit. I guess I am dreaming of a make or break experience.
Am I doing the right thing or will I be put off for ever?

You're asking the right questions. (Not quite sure how the answers will come out).

The most beautiful thing I ever saw was a woman being beaten by my (then) Domme, with a bamboo (thin) cane, in my Vegas suite that housed easily 35 people (quite comfortably) back in the early 2000's, my first true experience in domination....it frightened me. I was sitting on the edge of the bed, several ex girlfriends were holding my hand, my Domme came over before she started and put a ball gag in my mouth, very confusing....didn't have a clue what was about to take place....very thankful for what she did.....and then she started WHALING on this chic...in front of everyone...there were probably 30 of us watching....I wanted to save this girl....from my DOMME!!!!!

It went on and on.....and on......and on....and this girl exhibited every possible physical example of having the shit kicked out of her, very thin cane....thwack......"thank you"....thwack...."thank you"....now crying (her)....in my mind I'm thinking "PLEASE STOP!!!!!!"

THWACK!!!!!

Again.....

And again...and now I'm crying....first because my ex girlfriends are holding me back...physically holding me down and I can't help and then.....transitionally.....because I saw it....something changed....

This had gone on for 7 minutes....easily 40 thwacks...beyond painful ones....my (then) Domme was so careful, she knew exactly what she was doing....no blood was drawn but....I swear....she came close.....after 4 thwacks....I'd have been on the floor begging for mercy....

This chic stayed for ANOTHER 5 minutes.....her back was red....her butt was near bloody without being so....her legs...I can't even imagine standing and....she was still. "Thank you Mistress".....

I was bawling my eyes out....and half the room was staring at me....the nooooob.......I've never been happier because, I knew this girl was BEYOND happy and something happened to me in that 12 minutes. I realized that she was never happier...and I saw the beauty and my tears were, oddly, joy....for her.

I'll never forget that 12 minutes if I live a billion years.

I've never seen so much joy in my entire life....and she (barely) walked away from that event....my ex girlfriends held me the entire time, and my Domme was proud of both me and the girls that took care of me in one of the most frightening, and most loving experiences of my entire existence.

It is to this day, one of the most loving experiences of my life.

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RE: First beating - 2/20/2014 10:14:54 PM

seekingreality

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejohn1234

I still dream of being taught what the cane is REALLY about by a dominant woman.
I feel very much urged to ask her to ignore my cries and to take me to the level
she sees fit. I guess I am dreaming of a make or break experience.
Am I doing the right thing or will I be put off for ever?

First, most dominant women won't really care what you dream about until they care about you as a person. So look to meet someone as a human being first rather than as a tool for fantasy fulfillment.

Everyone is different. However, in my experience, most domes precede slowly and carefully, especially if the sub is new at something. They don't want to take the responsibility for your "make or break" experience. Cause your fantasy puts a lot of responsibility on the domme.

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RE: First beating - 2/20/2014 10:24:26 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Greta, I know you received corporal punishment in school and therefore are used to beatings that many of us never have been.
But many of us were never hit when young.

I am aware corporal punishment is quite uniquely more openly carried out in Asian countries. And for the record, I don't believe in it. I was a very rebellious kid, the more I was hit, the more rebellious I got, and went all out to dare them to beat me until they kill me, so beating never worked for me. I just get worst and worst. So from my own experience, I know corporal punishment does not work as a disciplinary action. Parents use it as short cut to instill fear to control their children's behaviour, I think it's just lazy disciplining.

But I definitely did grow up, go to school where, all the kids were like me, they get caned at home, they get caned at school. Not uncommon to see 8 yrs old come to school with cane marks all over arms and legs. And we would just sympathize with each other, but what occur to me is, is the incredible capacity for children to take these beatings without crumbling. They were so strong.

So the point is, even when a 13 yr old kid is beaten infront of the whole school, you know us kids, we always very rebellious, we would just look dryly at the headmaster and ask him if his tired yet and have hit us enough, to look cool and act hero, that would piss him off to hit us harder.

If kids can take it, adults can take it. I'm just saying, it's not that painful in play. And especially in play, unless his playing with an idiot, most should be able to regulate strength to suit the person pain tolerance level they are hitting. It is after all possible to hit with a cane and make it almost painless. It's all about pressure control.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/20/2014 10:45:49 PM >

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RE: First beating - 2/20/2014 10:34:10 PM

Greta75

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quote:

He's been here for years just talking about his fantasies and deliberately not trying to make them come true. There isn't anything we can do to help when he says one thing and does another.

Sad for the guy who is even wondering how a cane feels like. If you were here, I'd cane you OP, and it won't hurt unless you want it to hurt :)

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RE: First beating - 2/21/2014 8:26:22 AM

DesFIP

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PG:

You said "my partner was vanilla for the majority of our relationship. I had to push him to start ignoring his worries about me and push me harder, because I needed that. And was it selfish?"

So any assumptions I made were from that statement. You stated he was vanilla. You stated that you had to push him to ignore his worries. You stated that you did selfish things to get your needs met while implying that doing so ignored his needs.

All we can go by is what you write. And that's what you wrote, that he was vanilla and that you wanted your needs met no matter what it did to him.

If your writing is unclear, please don't blame the readers for lacking missing information.

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RE: First beating - 2/21/2014 1:06:01 PM

pg4g

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

PG:

You said "my partner was vanilla for the majority of our relationship. I had to push him to start ignoring his worries about me and push me harder, because I needed that. And was it selfish?"

So any assumptions I made were from that statement. You stated he was vanilla. You stated that you had to push him to ignore his worries. You stated that you did selfish things to get your needs met while implying that doing so ignored his needs.

All we can go by is what you write. And that's what you wrote, that he was vanilla and that you wanted your needs met no matter what it did to him.

If your writing is unclear, please don't blame the readers for lacking missing information.

Yeah, that wording was extremely imprecise about my partner being vanilla. It was more that the relationship itself was vanilla. I'm sorry for the confusion, we'd talked about kink. He liked controlling and obeying a man, but he didn't know it was kink. That and our first dates were filled with kinky wrestling lol. In retrospect it was lucky I found myself a switch who didn't know what he was. But at that stage I had no idea what to call myself either.

He was clinically diagnosed anxiety and depression about 6 months into a relationship. It frustrating from a needs perspective, and my feelings were selfish. Eventually I had to decide if I stayed with the man even though I was feeling like my need was not being met. I did. Because I love the guy.

Please note I have heavily edited this post after re-reading my previous wording. I see where you got confused, and it was my fault. I'm sorry.

[Edited for Major Corrections]

< Message edited by pg4g -- 2/21/2014 1:37:42 PM >

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