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RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 4:43:05 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		No. I'm telling you that you seem to have made up your own version of events.

I know what you are saying.

Just for laughs lets hear your defense of the Peter Arnett milk factory during the first gulf war.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 4:55:05 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Ahhh.... a new day and a fresh perspective...save me a big slice of that bacon I'm hungry... I've a new idea... appoint me chief fact checker I'm sure you would all trust me to keep to the facts. When in an argument here on Collarme I will be your arbitrator and will declare who has their facts straight.

Butch

I wouldn't even favor a proposal that made me the final judge of the facts.


Me either.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 5:01:11 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. I'm telling you that you seem to have made up your own version of events.

I know what you are saying.

Just for laughs lets hear your defense of the Peter Arnett milk factory during the first gulf war.


Just for laughs, lets post the findings of the Iraq Survey Group, who looked at the issue after the war.

quote:

The Iraq Survey Group visited the facility in May 2004 and found that it was inoperable and had been out of operation for some time prior to the invasion. The plant was searched extensively and no evidence was found of WMD production, although the production facilities and factory floor were littered with remnants of baby milk production, including large piles of powdered baby milk that had congealed into solid masses.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 5:04:37 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. I'm telling you that you seem to have made up your own version of events.

I know what you are saying.

Do you see where that is a problem?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 5:06:17 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: offline
quote:


So as long as it is something you like the press gets it right.


this is the only 100% true statement I have ever seen in P'n'R.

I'm guilty, you're guilty, we are all fucking guilty.

Fuck knows how we get around this problem, but maybe a little less regurgitating what we read from the sources we like and dismissing everything from the sources we don't like would help.

Google is a tool but your mind is a better tool

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 5:15:40 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:


So as long as it is something you like the press gets it right.


this is the only 100% true statement I have ever seen in P'n'R.

I'm guilty, you're guilty, we are all fucking guilty.

Fuck knows how we get around this problem, but maybe a little less regurgitating what we read from the sources we like and dismissing everything from the sources we don't like would help.

Google is a tool but your mind is a better tool

Of course we all like what we agree with, it is human nature.
This is part and parcel of why the government should not control the news.
The government is made up of people and they will decide that what they agree with is the true set of facts.
Not because they are evil or because of some plot.
But because they are human.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to deathtothepixies)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 5:16:53 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. I'm telling you that you seem to have made up your own version of events.

I know what you are saying.

Do you see where that is a problem?


Yep your wrong.
The fact that you say it does not make it so, unless you are God.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 2/25/2014 5:17:40 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 5:23:25 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. I'm telling you that you seem to have made up your own version of events.

I know what you are saying.

Do you see where that is a problem?


Yep your wrong.
The fact that you say it does not make it so, unless you are God.

I've shown you that something you firmly believe you know is simply untrue and Politesub dealt with another and you remain firmly convinced of your righteousness. That is a serious problem.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 5:30:11 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. I'm telling you that you seem to have made up your own version of events.

I know what you are saying.

Do you see where that is a problem?


Yep your wrong.
The fact that you say it does not make it so, unless you are God.

I've shown you that something you firmly believe you know is simply untrue and Politesub dealt with another and you remain firmly convinced of your righteousness. That is a serious problem.

To address yours
A. you admit that the Vice principal apprehended the kid in Pearl.
B. him being in a car or on the parking lot does not change this
C my point was that the media tried to avoid admitting he did so
D you want to pretend he had no part in it
E who is making up their own version of things

As for politesub, who cares

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 5:31:36 PM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		I agree that government shouldn't control the news, However, when you got news organizations spreading misinformation about science, or what other people stand for, something has to be done. In Canada we have laws against misinformation, good ones that prevent a fox news northern migration. As it stands, the government doesn't control what news organizations report on. Hell, the CBC, essentially the federal news station, did a documentary a few weeks back detailing how our conservative government has slashed science positions all across the country. They criticized the government that provides them funding. While the government doesn't actively tell them what they can and cannot post, there are laws in place that prohibit news stations from reporting on things that are misleading or untrue, and if they do report on something that is untrue (for example that Climate change is a hoax) they would be taken to court over that and they would likely have a lengthy court battle to determine if what the newscasters say is true or not (reasonable no?). It is not that the government says it's untrue, it's because saying such things is in reality untrue. Truth is singular, and different versions of the truth are mistruths. Whether the right wing wants to admit it or not, this world has a general left wing bias. Not the people, but the world around them. It's cold, hard and uncomfortable. For example: Religion is a human construct, homosexuality is common in nature, the universe began with the big bang, evolution brought about humanity, the actions of humans usually affect the world negatively, equal rights for all doesn't mean other's rights are being trampled on, people succeed when they work together and aren't selfish, trickle down economics doesn't work, people of all races and creeds are equal and all want to live happily. These are general truths that have been learned over the years, and no matter how stubborn the right wing is, this is the truth. Why should newscaster be allowed to brainwash people think otherwise? Because in the end, they're not doing anyone any favours.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 5:35:09 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. I'm telling you that you seem to have made up your own version of events.

I know what you are saying.

Do you see where that is a problem?


Yep your wrong.
The fact that you say it does not make it so, unless you are God.

I've shown you that something you firmly believe you know is simply untrue and Politesub dealt with another and you remain firmly convinced of your righteousness. That is a serious problem.

To address yours
A. you admit that the Vice principal apprehended the kid in Pearl.
B. him being in a car or on the parking lot does not change this

You claimed he was not leaving campus when stopped. I pointed out this was untrue. you posted about 5 times in response.
quote:

C my point was that the media tried to avoid admitting he did so
D you want to pretend he had no part in it
I did no such thing
quote:

E who is making up their own version of things
you

quote:

As for politesub, who cares
anyone who cares about facts and the fact that you tried to engage me in a back and forth on something you thought was some sort of test of what the truth was.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 5:40:15 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. I'm telling you that you seem to have made up your own version of events.

I know what you are saying.

Do you see where that is a problem?


Yep your wrong.
The fact that you say it does not make it so, unless you are God.

I've shown you that something you firmly believe you know is simply untrue and Politesub dealt with another and you remain firmly convinced of your righteousness. That is a serious problem.

To address yours
A. you admit that the Vice principal apprehended the kid in Pearl.
B. him being in a car or on the parking lot does not change this

You claimed he was not leaving campus when stopped. I pointed out this was untrue. you posted about 5 times in response.
quote:

C my point was that the media tried to avoid admitting he did so
D you want to pretend he had no part in it
I did no such thing
quote:

E who is making up their own version of things
you

quote:

As for politesub, who cares
anyone who cares about facts and the fact that you tried to engage me in a back and forth on something you thought was some sort of test of what the truth was.

The main point is they didn't want to admit his role.
Can't you see that.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 7:30:00 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Here is another idea… perhaps it would be possible to set up a private “ Truth in Reporting” organization set up in the same way as the ACLU. All we need is a few millionaires.

Not only could they report false news reporting and improper editorializing but also grade the networks coverage.

And finally to give the organization power have them sue for damages that result from false reporting where appropriate and demand and pursue prosecution when laws are broken.

I know there are existing organizations but they tend to be associated with political parties.

Of course each side would accuse the TIR of bias but I’m sure they would report an investigation if it went against a competitor.

Trust in the organization could be a problem but over time the results should build this trust in the same way we trust the Better Business Bureau as an example.

There you go… private watch dog organization built of trust with no government interference.

I would donate for support.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/25/2014 7:36:04 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 7:34:39 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Here is another idea… perhaps it would be possible to set up a private “ Truth in Reporting” organization set up in the same way as the ACLU. All we need is a few millionaires.

Not only could they report false news reporting and improper editorializing but also grade the networks coverage.

And finally to give the organization power have them sue for damages that result from false reporting where appropriate and demand and pursue prosecution when laws are broken.

I know there are existing organizations but they tend to be associated with political parties.

Of course each side would accuse the TIR of bias but I’m sure they would report an investigation if it went against a competitor.

Trust in the organization could be a problem but over time the results should build this trust in the same way we trust the Better Business Bureau as an example.

There you go… private watch dog organization built of trust with no government interference.

Butch

As you said we already have several of them, most of their biases are well known.
But this is far, far better than any government control and the best suggestion I have heard on here.
The problem would be to get people to pay attention,but then that is always the problem.
I do think that multiple sources would be a good idea as their biases could then balance out.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 2/25/2014 7:37:55 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 7:41:05 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Bama in my area several local affiliates and the Post Dispatch have their own truth in reporting segments. During election years they are very popular and informative...and people pay attention... It is always fun to catch a politician telling lies and people eat it up.

I think if this type of organisation could be expanded nation wide there would be no problem getting air time on the major networks. And if trust could be built it would be powerful enough to rein in our media problems.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 7:47:55 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Just imagine if in their bylaws they would limit donations to individuals with a donation limit. They would absolutely NOT take donations from businesses...political organisations... lobbyists and political parties.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 7:48:29 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bama in my area several local affiliates and the Post Dispatch have their own truth in reporting segments. During election years they are very popular and informative...and people pay attention... It is always fun to catch a politician telling lies and people eat it up.

I think if this type of organisation could be expanded nation wide there would be no problem getting air time on the major networks. And if trust could be built it would be powerful enough to rein in our media problems.

Butch

You may well be right and it is worth a try.
I would much rather have a private group doing this than a government organization.
You know the difference between a comedian and a politician?
When a politician tells a joke its law.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 8:08:07 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		lol... Now if the Congress could only work together like us.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 8:10:07 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

lol... Now if the Congress could only work together like us.

Butch

Now that comment sounds like you've been dropping acid.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/25/2014 8:36:37 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
The main point is they didn't want to admit his role.
Can't you see that.

No. I see that your bias is at work. You've already admitted that the stories you read did include the fact that he did stop the shooter.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 220
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