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RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 8:25:36 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

I have chosen not to carry a weapon for the last 12 years or so. I chose not to do so.

Yesterday (MON 24 FEB) I was at my uncle Bob's house and uncle George called. We don't talk very often (we e-mail and play some chess) so I spent some time on the phone with him.

He was asking me how I like my new digs. I was yacking away and made mention of "Pennsyltucky". UG lives in Kentucky, another commonwealth and we had a laugh and then he said: "Is it like Kentucky?"

I said: "Ya know, it kinda is. The people here are friendly, laid-back, anachronistic ... It's so nice to live in a place where people genuinely treat neighbors like neighbors and watch out for each other."

He said: "You mean like a citizen patrol; a neighborhood watch?"

I said: "Well, no but we look after each other. My neighbor called me, a couple of weeks ago when he saw someone he didn't recognize in my backyard and everyone is armed. It's an open carry state."

UG said: "Bit of a culture shock?"

I reminded him that I had lived in Arizona and Georgia.

UG: "Oh. That's right. 'Old hat' for you."

Indeed. To me there's difference in this place. With a few rare exceptions, violent crime is almost nil, compared to jerk-off Jersey.

I am also being reminded about the old saw (I'm probably going to get this wrong but I'm "mis-spelling" a word because I believe it's how I heard it): "People are damn-sight politer when everyone's armed."

As I have said before; I choose not to carry a weapon but I'm glad I live in a place where people are allowed to because the scumbags never know who is and who isn't armed. I almost never lock my doors at night, anymore.

_____________________________

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(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 21

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 8:32:14 PM

RottenJohnny

Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
thanks:)
Do you see a challenge coming from the Georgia law to allow in bars, churches and government buildings?

Eventually, yes. I expect someone will try to make the case that guns shouldn't be allowed in government buildings under anti-terrorism laws and they don't belong in places where mind altering substances are being served and consumed. As far as churches are concerned, I expect that may be left to the communities to decide in order to avoid the impression of the government violating religious rights.

quote:

How long do you think it will take for them to keep pushing till they succeed?..do you foresee other challenges to anything in particular?

Anything in particular? No. But honestly, I don't follow what the NRA does from day to day. Suffice to say, I expect they have an ongoing list of items they'll challenge and lawyers developing plans to do so. I'm sure a look at the NRA website would give you plenty of information on what they're working on.

quote:

What are the chances of the SCOTUS being more receptive, given the realities of the republican party?

I honestly don't think it has anything to do with how the SCOTUS feels about the Republican Party. My impression is that the sitting justices simply don't feel that dealing with gun debates is what's most important right now given the issues with the ACA, the banks, the war, the President's claims to use his executive power, and who knows what else.

quote:

Im asking out of interest, not for snark material, while we disagree on a few things, I can actually respect your pov...

I never thought otherwise and I appreciate the kind remark. I just hope what I said was useful to you. Most people don't usually give a shit what I think.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 22

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 8:37:55 PM

Tkman117

Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

1) I don't have experience with firearms

You could have stopped typing right there. You didn't say another word that was relevant to the question.

My lack of experience using a gun gives me experience of what it's like not needing to depend on them. I have experience you don't have, you have experience I don't have. I don't need to kill to protect myself, society in my country is largely safe enough as it is. The variables are inherently in my favour.

quote:

quote:

I apologize if I appeared to be running away, I was not aware I was. If you own a hand gun, a sub machine gun, a sniper rifle, assault rifle, etc, the only use is to kill another person.

Nonsense. My handgun is the ideal tool of personal protection against attacks by coyotes or feral dogs upon my dogs, or myself. Yes. That does happen where I live. Sub-machine guns require very special licensing for civilian ownership, a "sniper rifle" is any old fucking crappy rifle in the world, and almost always a bolt action (ask Lee Oswald), an assault rifle is capable of selective fire including automatic, and again requires special licensing. You post seems to be mostly about throwing out terms you have heard, but see point 1.

Care to supply some statistics on coyote attacks? because as far as I'm concerned, my ex's family owned a farm and there were coyotes and feral dogs too. Her father had a hunting shotgun which he kept in the house and did the trick quite well from what I understood. But I personally see hand guns as a better alternative to assault rifles or anything larger than that, little more reasonable.

And you're right about sniper rifles, which could definitely be used for hunting. But I digress. Do those licences for larger guns come into consideration when it comes to gun shows, which as far as I know, doesn't require back ground checks? Plus, WHY do you need those kinds of weapons? WHY should they even be an option? Thats the problem, you don't seem to have an answer for NEEDING such excessive force.

quote:

You claim to be a student. I'm curious if that means you are interested in learning and thinking, or just rote repetition of what you've been told to believe, and namecalling when it gets the first bit bumpy.

Everyone in this world is a student capable of learning, I'm doing it every day, and so are you believe it or not. Am I completely right? Do i know the issue in it's totality? No, of course not. But we are in a new kind of world than the one which created your second amendment, and fighting fire with fire has shown to only burn people, not solve the problems at the root.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 23

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 8:40:25 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
3) Because every day citizens are not judge, jury and executioner.

Well now, that depends. See if you can pay attention;

I live in California, which is not a particularly gun friendly state, and I have gone through all of the required steps and checks to legally acquire the guns I own.

California operates under the Castle Doctrine. It shares ancestry with the home as castle concept in English legal history, but we have made it in our image.

If someone enters, or is attempting to enter my home by force, then I damn well have the right judge, jury, and executioner. By law. If I assume this person means me or my family harm, that assumption is unquestionable. By law. My decision on whether or not to use deadly force once I have made that assumption is unquestionable. By law. I am immune to civil damages should the family of the deceased come looking for recompense. By law.

And if I shoot a rattlesnake, there is no paperwork whatsoever.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 24

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 8:48:27 PM

Tkman117

Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
3) Because every day citizens are not judge, jury and executioner.

Well now, that depends. See if you can pay attention;

I live in California, which is not a particularly gun friendly state, and I have gone through all of the required steps and checks to legally acquire the guns I own.

California operates under the Castle Doctrine. It shares ancestry with the home as castle concept in English legal history, but we have made it in our image.

If someone enters, or is attempting to enter my home by force, then I damn well have the right judge, jury, and executioner. By law. If I assume this person means me or my family harm, that assumption is unquestionable. By law. My decision on whether or not to use deadly force once I have made that assumption is unquestionable. By law. I am immune to civil damages should the family of the deceased come looking for recompense. By law.

And if I shoot a rattlesnake, there is no paperwork whatsoever.

So...how often do people break into homes with the intention of killing those inside? I understand the logic of trying to protect yourself. But if you get mugged, is pulling a gun and risking your life worth your wallet. Things are things, you don't need to escalate things and put yourself and others in harms way. Again, the problem isn't so much about having guns, it's the type of guns available. Why do you need an assault rifle, smg, and other similar weapons?

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 25

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 8:59:12 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

First off, I was in boot camp the first time I ever handled firearms, and didn't grow up around them, so your described experience at inexperience doesn't impress me much. Really a lame reply, Dude.

Statistics on coyote attacks run very low. In the small desert community where I live, coyote encounters are pretty commonplace. I hear them on any winter night the wind isn't howling. Same with seeing the most poisonous variety of rattlesnake. People lose cats and small dogs pretty regularly around here. Of course, there was that poor woman over in Littlerock, 30 odd miles away, as the crow flies. She was literally ripped to pieces by a pack of dogs while taking her morning walk about a year ago. She bled to death on the way to the hospital. Awful thing.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 26

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 9:02:52 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
Why do you need an assault rifle, smg, and other similar weapons?

Why didn't you read what I wrote about those things in an earlier post? If your arguments are going to be stuck on stupid, I'm going to get bored in a hurry.

Move it forward, or run along.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 27

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 9:02:56 PM

Tkman117

Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline

I'm not going back to skulk around for your earlier posts. Either link to it or answer again.

Also, I sympathize and understand the whole coyote thing, so we'll move on from that.

Why do you need an assault rifle, smg, and other similar weapons? Why do you need such excessive weaponry at your disposal? If you're afraid of the government "taking your rights away" I'd like to see how well you'd do against tanks, cruise missiles and bombers.

< Message edited by Tkman117 -- 2/25/2014 9:04:32 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 28

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 9:11:56 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

I'm not going back to skulk around for your earlier posts. Either link to it or answer again.

Also, I sympathize and understand the whole coyote thing, so we'll move on from that.

Why do you need an assault rifle, smg, and other similar weapons? Why do you need such excessive weaponry at your disposal? If you're afraid of the government "taking your rights away" I'd like to see how well you'd do against tanks, cruise missiles and bombers.

You quoted it in your own post above - post 25.

You do read what you quote in your own posts, don't you?

(I think I have an Angry Birds update on the tablet...)

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 29

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 9:19:10 PM

Tkman117

Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline

So let me get this straight, your reasoning for WHY you need an SMG is:

quote:

Sub-machine guns require very special licensing for civilian ownership,

and your reasoning for WHY you need an assault rifle is:

quote:

an assault rifle is capable of selective fire including automatic, and again requires special licensing

No where in any of the quotes which I had in post 25 offered a reason as to WHY people need access to such kind of weaponry. All you did was explain that there are licenses that are needed to have them, not explain why they're available in the first place. I don't read what I quote? Talk about hypocritical

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 30

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 9:20:24 PM

RottenJohnny

Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
Why do you need an assault rifle, smg, and other similar weapons? Why do you need such excessive weaponry at your disposal? If you're afraid of the government "taking your rights away" I'd like to see how well you'd do against tanks, cruise missiles and bombers.

If my potential enemy has tanks, cruise missiles, and bombers, I at least want an assault rifle...as well as sniper rifle, high explosives, and a well made RPG launcher with all the ammo I can pack on a mule or two.

Just sayin'.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 31

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 9:22:31 PM

Tkman117

Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline

Lol, I think anyone would, but sadly, the government is hardly the enemy and no one is in the throes of a civil war thankfully.

(in reply to RottenJohnny)

Post #: 32

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 9:42:24 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

Because regular people DON"T HAVE access to them, Tkman. It's serious collectors, and people who sell to collectors. Ask that guy with the nutsack problem, if you can catch him on a coherent day.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 33

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 9:54:08 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Also, I sympathize and understand the whole coyote thing, so we'll move on from that.

Why would you sympathize??? I love living surrounded by the wide open spaces, and being close to nature. Population density in my zip code is 347 people per square mile even if I live on a quiet street in a suburban-style housing tract. I choose to be in a small community, and make the sacrifices that come with it. That requires a reality based view of the risks inherent in my environment, of course. City dwellers need to be a lot more conscious of not getting hit by a car. Normal is what you are used to.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 34

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 9:59:01 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

the government is hardly the enemy

Nope. And since the birth of my country was based on evicting one that was, the founders were wise enough to keep our own government in check by means of an armed civilian populace. It's been working for 230 years.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 35

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 10:02:55 PM

Tkman117

Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline

So then why did Adam Lanza's mother have an AR15 rifle? She was hardly a collector. Different states have different laws behind different guns. California has strict gun laws, I get it. But the AR15 is supposed to be one of the most purchased assault weapons in america, sold to MILLIONS and there are MILLIONS in circulation in the USA. You are wrong about this.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/20/assault_rifle_stats_how_many_assault_rifles_are_there_in_america.html
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2013/11/not-quite-all-the-facts-about-the-ar-15.aspx

If most Regular people don't have access to them, then why are there millions of them out there right now and thousands still being made? Why the sheer volume if the demand is low as you say? The reason is because so called "regular people" do have them. But there is no reason WHY these weapons should be available to the public in the first place if a hunting rifle, shotgun or hand gun can do the trick.

< Message edited by Tkman117 -- 2/25/2014 10:08:41 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 36

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 10:05:47 PM

Tkman117

Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

the government is hardly the enemy

Nope. And since the birth of my country was based on evicting one that was, the founders were wise enough to keep our own government in check by means of an armed civilian populace. It's been working for 230 years.

So the thousands of innocent lives taken by gun owners over the last 230 years was worth it to keep the government "in check"? Okay, got it, just checking...

But wait, the government is essentially giving your money away to the 1%, shouldn't you be revolting then?

< Message edited by Tkman117 -- 2/25/2014 10:07:51 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 37

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 10:06:59 PM

Tkman117

Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Also, I sympathize and understand the whole coyote thing, so we'll move on from that.

Why would you sympathize??? I love living surrounded by the wide open spaces, and being close to nature. Population density in my zip code is 347 people per square mile even if I live on a quiet street in a suburban-style housing tract. I choose to be in a small community, and make the sacrifices that come with it. That requires a reality based view of the risks inherent in my environment, of course. City dwellers need to be a lot more conscious of not getting hit by a car. Normal is what you are used to.

Jeeze man, I was saying I was agreeing with you, no need to get touchy over semantics...

(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 38

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 10:13:43 PM

RottenJohnny

Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
So the thousands of innocent lives taken by gun owners was worth it to keep the government "in check"?

Every government is worth keeping in check and innocent lives will be lost whether or not the public has guns.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 39

RE: Supreme Court declines challenges to gun laws - 2/25/2014 10:19:31 PM

Tkman117

Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
So the thousands of innocent lives taken by gun owners was worth it to keep the government "in check"?

Every government is worth keeping in check and innocent lives will be lost whether or not the public has guns.

If you think you've been keeping your government in line this whole time then you're more deaf and blind than Helen Keller XD (no offence intended). People only have so much control over their governments, and these days, politicians and the government are no more corrupt and controlling than they were during the medieval ages. I mean hell, if you were keeping the government in check then why would you let the NSA spy on you and invade your privacy?

Plus, shouldn't keeping the government in check meaning you're trying to protect the people? So aren't you largely defeating the purpose of keeping the government in check if you're doing more physical damage than they are to the American people?

< Message edited by Tkman117 -- 2/25/2014 10:29:11 PM >

(in reply to RottenJohnny)

Post #: 40

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