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Parents rights - 2/27/2014 9:39:21 AM   
thishereboi


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It scares me how little control we actually have over our own kids lives. Being sick is scary enough for a child but this is over the top.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cristy-balcells/first-do-no-harm-how-we-f_b_4843997.html

She also has a facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Miracle-for-Justina/253343311469595

and a petition if anyone is interested

http://grassfire.com/2014/02/justina/?Ref_ID=25258&CID=201115&RID=41344265

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 1:46:03 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

It scares me how little control we actually have over our own kids lives. Being sick is scary enough for a child but this is over the top.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cristy-balcells/first-do-no-harm-how-we-f_b_4843997.html

She also has a facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Miracle-for-Justina/253343311469595

and a petition if anyone is interested

http://grassfire.com/2014/02/justina/?Ref_ID=25258&CID=201115&RID=41344265

Hope to God this is a hoax.
Otherwise everyone but the family should be stood up to a wall and shot.

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 2:03:16 PM   
Lucylastic


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As a mother, my heart aches for her, and her family
For everything else I need more info.
It wont be the first time or last time the medical community has fucked up, this goes beyond fucking up, wether the girl is sick or the parents are "wrong" why the hell has it been over a year? That is despicable.

I get the court takes its sweet time and docs are notorious for covering their asses, and we havent got the whole story, but having a child in an institution with only weekly visits from parents, for a year.... that is abnormal, imnsho.
Why the gag order....
gonna hunt down more info before i decide to sign that petition

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 2:07:48 PM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Hope to God this is a hoax.
Otherwise everyone but the family should be stood up to a wall and shot.



No hoax. And the guy did bust the gag order. This was on FOX News the other night. They're asking questions and no answers are forthcoming.

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 2:12:34 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Hope to God this is a hoax.
Otherwise everyone but the family should be stood up to a wall and shot.



No hoax. And the guy did bust the gag order. This was on FOX News the other night. They're asking questions and no answers are forthcoming.

What decent answers could there be?

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 2:24:54 PM   
kdsub


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Remember our little discussion about news reporting and how they love to twist facts for sensationalism? I think there is a good chance that is what is happening here.

We will have to wait and see but I would bet the reporting news organization will not report the facts if they turn out to be... will... non-sensational.

It is all speculation on my part but I would think there are other factors at play that have not been reported...perhaps common sense things like specialists in the field and their diagnosis. And or testing done that cannot be revealed because of doctor patient confidentiality.

Either way it is a tragedy.

Butch

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 2:33:15 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Remember our little discussion about news reporting and how they love to twist facts for sensationalism? I think there is a good chance that is what is happening here.

We will have to wait and see but I would bet the reporting news organization will not report the facts if they turn out to be... will... non-sensational.

It is all speculation on my part but I would think there are other factors at play that have not been reported...perhaps common sense things like specialists in the field and their diagnosis. And or testing done that cannot be revealed because of doctor patient confidentiality.

Either way it is a tragedy.

Butch

I believe that falls into hoax category, I truly hope this has been misrepresented.

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 4:29:37 PM   
Aylee


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I will note that they refused to do the most rudimentary testing to verify her past medical history, such as the MRI to confirm the childhood stroke of her brain, which was the reason she was on blood thinners and certain neurological drugs. Not to mention there are genetic tests for the markers that indicate for the DNA disease that the girl in question has.

Instead they allowed a doctor to practice outside of his field and disregard the expert opinion of doctors at his OWN hospital and impose his own diagnosis when the patient in question was NOT HIS patient.

Considering his department has done this numerous times (at least several that have been documented), I do wonder what HE or his department head has on the hospital administration, because of the tort liability they have incurred, because at least in this case the physical condition of the patient in question has noticeably deteriorated under their care.

It is enough to make you cry and to confirm that the doctors in the neurology department are criminally incompetent and that the Hospital Administrator needs to be fired.

http://www.childrenshospital.org/centers-and-services/programs/f-_-n/mitochondrial-program
quote:

Mitochondrial diseases are a large group of chronic disorders in which the body's cells have problems making energy. These disorders are relatively common.

They are also very complex, and can affect many different body systems in different combinations. As a result, a child with a mitochondrial disorder may be affected very differently than another child. Some patients' disease can be very serious, while others' may be stable and well-managed for many years.

Boston Children's Hospital's Mitochondrial Program is comprised of world experts with extensive experience diagnosing and treating children with suspected mitochondrial disorders. After a diagnosis is made, we provide the diverse expertise needed to evaluate and manage the various complications these children may face.

Here at Boston Children's, your child will be evaluated and treated by pediatric neurologist Irina Anselm, MD, who specializes in caring for children with mitochondrial diseases. Dr. Anselm works with experts from other specialties at Children's, including Metabolism, Cardiology, Genetics, Gastroenterology and Ophthalmology.

Each of these specialists has particular expertise in working with children who have mitochondrial disorders. Our doctors will work with you to develop a customized plan that manages and addresses your child's individual condition and symptoms, and we will follow your child closely throughout each stage of the treatment process.
snipt.


So the hospital has an entire program and staff now dedicated to a disease that they are on record as saying does NOT exist.

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 4:49:59 PM   
kalikshama


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It's not just on HuffPo. These articles have a better explanation for the state's action. Regardless, I think a year in a locked psychiatric ward is ridiculous.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/sick-connecticut-teen-justina-pelletier-foster-care/story

Boston Children's Hospital reported the Pelletier's to the Massachusetts Department of Children and Families for suspected child abuse in February 2013. She was confined to its psychiatric unit for treatment for a somatoform disorder for nearly a year before being moved to a residential facility for mental health treatment, according to the family.

http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/blogs/white-coat-notes/2014/02/26/child-year-long-custody-case-won-moved-foster-care-north-shore/jWLWZA6a6IEm8oGJTiiuxK/blog.html

The Pelletier case involves a controversial and increasingly used term called medical child abuse—which refers to parents who seek excessive and potentially harmful care for their children—and highlights challenges that the medical community faces in diagnosing patients who exhibit both troubling physical and psychiatric symptoms.

Justina’s parents insist that their daughter suffers from mitochondrial disorder, a group of genetic ailments that affect how cells produce energy, often causing problems with the gut, brain, and muscles. Justina’s physicians at Tufts Medical Center had been treating her for this illness for about a year, saying she exhibited many of its symptoms, and were still in the midst of determining if she had a clear-cut case of this disorder.

Then last February, Justina was brought to Children’s Hospital after suffering severe intestinal issues, and having trouble walking. Doctors there, in a matter of a few days, concluded that her problems were primarily psychiatric, and that the parents were ignoring the root cause of her problems and pushing for unnecessary medical interventions.

When the parents sought to discharge Justina, the hospital filed medical child abuse charges, which were ultimately supported by the state and later a juvenile court judge.

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 4:54:33 PM   
kalikshama


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Good, they got state representatives involved:

http://foxct.com/2014/02/26/mass-representatives-ask-dcf-to-release-justina-pellitier/

...According to Mass. State Representative Marc Lombardo, as of 5pm Wednesday, he and Rep. Jim Lyons had 12 representatives backing a resolution that would start the process of releasing Justina Pelletier to her parents right away.

Rep. Lombardo will raise the resolution at the next House of Representatives session, which is scheduled for March 5.

“The Pelletier case is a dispute between conflicting medical opinions… the decision on which medical treatment to adopt should rest with the parents, not with DCF. The Department’s heavy-handed, unjustified interference with the rights of these parents is an example of what is wrong with this agency,” said Rep. Jim Lyons (R-Andover)....

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 5:10:05 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I will note that they refused to do the most rudimentary testing to verify her past medical history, such as the MRI to confirm the childhood stroke of her brain, which was the reason she was on blood thinners and certain neurological drugs. Not to mention there are genetic tests for the markers that indicate for the DNA disease that the girl in question has.

Instead they allowed a doctor to practice outside of his field and disregard the expert opinion of doctors at his OWN hospital and impose his own diagnosis when the patient in question was NOT HIS patient.

Considering his department has done this numerous times (at least several that have been documented), I do wonder what HE or his department head has on the hospital administration, because of the tort liability they have incurred, because at least in this case the physical condition of the patient in question has noticeably deteriorated under their care.

It is enough to make you cry and to confirm that the doctors in the neurology department are criminally incompetent and that the Hospital Administrator needs to be fired.

http://www.childrenshospital.org/centers-and-services/programs/f-_-n/mitochondrial-program
quote:

Mitochondrial diseases are a large group of chronic disorders in which the body's cells have problems making energy. These disorders are relatively common.

They are also very complex, and can affect many different body systems in different combinations. As a result, a child with a mitochondrial disorder may be affected very differently than another child. Some patients' disease can be very serious, while others' may be stable and well-managed for many years.

Boston Children's Hospital's Mitochondrial Program is comprised of world experts with extensive experience diagnosing and treating children with suspected mitochondrial disorders. After a diagnosis is made, we provide the diverse expertise needed to evaluate and manage the various complications these children may face.

Here at Boston Children's, your child will be evaluated and treated by pediatric neurologist Irina Anselm, MD, who specializes in caring for children with mitochondrial diseases. Dr. Anselm works with experts from other specialties at Children's, including Metabolism, Cardiology, Genetics, Gastroenterology and Ophthalmology.

Each of these specialists has particular expertise in working with children who have mitochondrial disorders. Our doctors will work with you to develop a customized plan that manages and addresses your child's individual condition and symptoms, and we will follow your child closely throughout each stage of the treatment process.
snipt.


So the hospital has an entire program and staff now dedicated to a disease that they are on record as saying does NOT exist.

It's not that they do not exist. they definitely exist. but they are grossly over diagnosed. They are the trendy disease of the moment in some circles just like multiple chemical sensitivity was a few years back. I will point out that in all the coverage of this which specific condition she has is never mentioned and there is no such thing as just "mitochrondrial disease" that is an umbrella term for any disease involving a mutation of the DNA of the mitochondria. That could be something as mild as type 2 diabetes to all kinds of esoteric metabolic illnesses. So that generic statement does make me more than a tad suspicious.

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 5:21:55 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

They are the trendy disease of the moment in some circles just like multiple chemical sensitivity was a few years back.


My MCS is all in my head...so sayeth the SPECT brain scan I had done at UConn.

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 5:34:50 PM   
DaddySatyr


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I think the base issue here is the government's unbridled ability to interfere in families.

Well, there are certainly some abused children out there (which is wholly unacceptable), the state agencies charged with their protection have very few limits.

I could take the time to type out an incident with which I am very familiar that happened in NJ that was a complete travesty (I will, if prompted but it's a long type).

These agencies have no restrictions and once they remove a child, even if they're in error, they still put parents through incredible hardships just so that - on paper - they can save face.

The lack of restraint and accountability makes them evil, at their core.





< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 2/27/2014 5:35:35 PM >


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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 5:35:28 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

They are the trendy disease of the moment in some circles just like multiple chemical sensitivity was a few years back.


My MCS is all in my head...so sayeth the SPECT brain scan I had done at UConn.

I never said that all MCS is psychosomatic just that once it got in the news people self diagnosed themselves with it when they really didn't have it.

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 5:45:14 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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I've seen other assertions about this case, and it isn't clear to me what the facts really are. Some are claiming that BCH believes it to be Munchausen Syndrome by proxy, and I have also read that that BCH and the social workers are under a court order not to talk about the case (why?? - what is the sensitive information that they can't discuss?). But then there is the rather alarming fact that the child seems to be doing far worse under the hospital's care than she was under the parent's care - which seems to suggest BCH could be in error. But BCH also has other mito patients currently in its care - and no issues there. But I've also heard that BCH has removed other children from their parents for Munchausen by proxy (which seems weird because that is a fairly are thing and very difficult to diagnose, and very easy to misdiagnose.) It seems like it would help to know what the rationale of BCH was to begin with - because we don't have that information at all - only what the parents are asserting the hospital did and said. I have to believe that unless BCH felt the child's life was in imminent danger they would not have acted as they did. But based on what?? And while it appears that BCH did not consult with Tufts, could the parents not have called the Tufts doctors in to testify on their behalf?? This whole thing seriously raises more questions than I feel are answered by the various articles that I've read.

The one thing that concerns me is that her current care does not seem to have improved her condition. Whether the parents get her back or not, it seems to me the current medical care she is receiving is not adequate. (Of course, whatever reasons they had for removing her from her parents might still be at play, and relevant. It just seems implausible that so many people would agree that she needed to be in the psych ward of a hospital if her real and only condition is mito or some other purely physical ailment.)

What is clear to me is that she needs better medical care (vs. psych care). And this can be provided for her separate from the decision of whether she should be returned to her parents. So why is that not being done? Custody is one battle, but the other battle is simply getting the child the appropriate care that she needs and I do not understand why the hospital is not responsible for that regardless of custodial issues. It seems to me the parents can easily file a malpractice suit against the hospital given that the child's physical condition is worse. And why are we only hearing about this now, a year later?? Maybe some of you have been following the case longer, but I only found out about it now, and it seems weird that this could have been going on for a year and not have been in the media earlier. Why is that?? If anyone has more information/background on this, including the legalities involved, I would be interested to read it. We really seem to have only part of the facts.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3256675734001/justina-pelletiers-sister-on-familys-fight-for-custody/?intcmp=obinsite#sp=show-clips

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 6:15:04 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

But I've also heard that BCH has removed other children from their parents for Munchausen by proxy (which seems weird because that is a fairly are thing and very difficult to diagnose, and very easy to misdiagnose.)


I'm convinced a former gf of mine was making her child sick. He got ill every time her boyfriend left her and well when he returned.

Here are bits from a very in depth article about Justina's situation:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/15/justina/vnwzbbNdiodSD7WDTh6xZI/story.html

...Doctors disagree all the time over the diagnosis and treatment of patients, but Justina’s story reveals a new and remarkably contentious frontier in pediatric medicine. A difference of opinion among doctors at separate Boston hospitals escalated with stunning speed. Just a few days after Justina had arrived at Children’s on Sunday, Feb. 10, doctors were urging state child-protection officials to take emergency custody of the girl from her parents so that Justina would remain safe and get the care the hospital’s team recommended.

These cases are rare, but not as rare as one might think. In just the last 18 months, Children’s — which given its reputation attracts many of the toughest cases from across the Northeast — has been involved in at least five cases where a disputed medical diagnosis led to parents either losing custody or being threatened with that extreme measure. Similar custody fights have occurred on occasion at other pediatric hospitals around the country.

It happens often enough that the pediatrician who until recently ran the child protection teams at both Children’s and Massachusetts General Hospital said she and others in her field have a name for this aggressive legal-medical maneuver. They call it a “parent-ectomy.”

Typically in these cases, the child had been diagnosed elsewhere with one of several relatively new disorders that are complex, poorly understood, and controversial.

The child’s medical record usually contained references to the parents being highly stressed and difficult to handle. And when the parents in most of these cases rejected the suggestion by doctors that the child’s problems were more psychiatric than physical, that sparked the medical team’s concern, paving the way for the call to the state child-protection agency.

In Massachusetts, the Department of Children and Families investigates all child abuse and neglect complaints and is supposed to be a neutral referee assessing the charges against the parents. Many parents and their advocates complain, however, that the state agency, because of its lack of in-house medical expertise and its longstanding ties with Children’s, is overly deferential to the renowned Harvard teaching hospital.

There can be no denying that Children’s doctors and nurses provide remarkable care on a daily basis, saving lives and advancing medicine. And they’re legally obligated to report any suspicions of child abuse. But given its well-earned reputation, Children’s can sometimes be a difficult institution to challenge.

...Boston Children’s Hospital officials, citing patient confidentiality, declined to discuss individual cases or allow any of their doctors to do so. However, a spokesman noted that hospital clinicians have extensive experience diagnosing and treating patients for mitochondrial disease, among other rare disorders. To better understand the recent cases of alleged medical child abuse, the Globe obtained extensive medical, court, and investigative records, including scores of documents that describe Justina’s care.

Pediatrician Carole Jenny and her psychiatrist husband coined the term “medical child abuse” some time ago, but it has taken hold in the medical world just in the last few years. It has become a controversial catch-all for a wide spectrum of cases in which health care providers deem parents acting against the best interests of their child in a medical setting.

Many such parents used to be diagnosed with Munchausen by Proxy, a psychiatric condition in which they seek attention from the medical community by exaggerating, fabricating or even inducing a child’s illness. The new term avoids references to parental motivation.

Noted child-protection specialists say signs of medical child abuse, whatever the motivation of the perpetrator, must be taken seriously.

“If the parent won’t work with you, and you really think the child is suffering, you’ve got to act,” said Jenny, who until recently ran the child protection team at Hasbro Children’s Hospital in Providence.

...In the first days after Justina’s admission, records show, [pediatrician Dr. Alice] Newton [who runs the Children's child protection team] consulted with psychologist Bujoreanu and other Children’s colleagues involved in her care. As Newton later explained to state investigators, she found much that troubled her: how Linda demanded that Justina be given a naso-gastric, or NG, feeding tube for nourishment, when hospital staff felt the girl needed to be given a chance to eat on her own. How Justina appeared to act more impaired when her mother was at her side. And how Linda and Lou had moved Justina around to multiple hospitals, drawing frequent complaints about their difficult personalities.

Finally, Newton was troubled by Justina’s many medical interventions, particularly the cecostomy “button” surgery she had undergone at Tufts in 2012, which struck her and others at Children’s as severe and unnecessary.

< Message edited by kalikshama -- 2/27/2014 6:20:31 PM >

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 6:42:25 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I've seen other assertions about this case, and it isn't clear to me what the facts really are. Some are claiming that BCH believes it to be Munchausen Syndrome by proxy, and I have also read that that BCH and the social workers are under a court order not to talk about the case (why?? - what is the sensitive information that they can't discuss?). But then there is the rather alarming fact that the child seems to be doing far worse under the hospital's care than she was under the parent's care - which seems to suggest BCH could be in error. But BCH also has other mito patients currently in its care - and no issues there. But I've also heard that BCH has removed other children from their parents for Munchausen by proxy (which seems weird because that is a fairly are thing and very difficult to diagnose, and very easy to misdiagnose.) It seems like it would help to know what the rationale of BCH was to begin with - because we don't have that information at all - only what the parents are asserting the hospital did and said. I have to believe that unless BCH felt the child's life was in imminent danger they would not have acted as they did. But based on what?? And while it appears that BCH did not consult with Tufts, could the parents not have called the Tufts doctors in to testify on their behalf?? This whole thing seriously raises more questions than I feel are answered by the various articles that I've read.

The one thing that concerns me is that her current care does not seem to have improved her condition. Whether the parents get her back or not, it seems to me the current medical care she is receiving is not adequate. (Of course, whatever reasons they had for removing her from her parents might still be at play, and relevant. It just seems implausible that so many people would agree that she needed to be in the psych ward of a hospital if her real and only condition is mito or some other purely physical ailment.)

What is clear to me is that she needs better medical care (vs. psych care). And this can be provided for her separate from the decision of whether she should be returned to her parents. So why is that not being done? Custody is one battle, but the other battle is simply getting the child the appropriate care that she needs and I do not understand why the hospital is not responsible for that regardless of custodial issues. It seems to me the parents can easily file a malpractice suit against the hospital given that the child's physical condition is worse. And why are we only hearing about this now, a year later?? Maybe some of you have been following the case longer, but I only found out about it now, and it seems weird that this could have been going on for a year and not have been in the media earlier. Why is that?? If anyone has more information/background on this, including the legalities involved, I would be interested to read it. We really seem to have only part of the facts.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3256675734001/justina-pelletiers-sister-on-familys-fight-for-custody/?intcmp=obinsite#sp=show-clips

You have hit on what seems to me to be the crux of the matter.
If the parents were the problem the girl should have improved, that has not happened.

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 6:48:57 PM   
kalikshama


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http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/16/month-medical-ordeal-conclusion-still-uncertain/Y7qvYTGsq8QklkxUZvuUgP/story.html

...A couple of months before the summit, Alice Newton, the pediatrician who had served as medical director of the Children’s child protection team during much of Justina’s hospitalization, left the hospital to work full time at Mass. General. She had said that when children who are victims of alleged medical child abuse are removed from their parents’ care, the picture can improve quickly. “In a number of cases where we’ve actually done that, you see the child just blossom in front of your eyes,” she said. Carole Jenny, a national leader in child protection, had made a similar comment in an interview.

Justina, however, did not seem to be blossoming. Based on their regular visits, Justina’s parents and sisters report that she remains very weak and unable to walk, and she continues to require medical intervention for bowel movements. Although it’s been impossible to obtain an independent assessment of her current state, descriptions of her condition in state and hospital records — such as the former figure-skater’s ability to lock and unlock her wheelchair — attest to the modest nature of any improvement.

And months after Newton had left Children’s, the hospital administrator overseeing the hospital’s child protection team disputed the notion that children in these cases rapidly improve once they’ve been removed from a medically abusive situation.

“The rebound that you’re describing, the miraculous emergence that you seem to be suggesting, is not something that happens if you’ve been a child who’s lived in a family where this has gone on for years,” Allison Scobbie-Carroll, director of social work, said in an interview. “What occurs is you have long-term psychiatric ramifications, and to recover from that is, in some cases, a lifelong process.”

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RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 8:30:49 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/16/month-medical-ordeal-conclusion-still-uncertain/Y7qvYTGsq8QklkxUZvuUgP/story.html

...A couple of months before the summit, Alice Newton, the pediatrician who had served as medical director of the Children’s child protection team during much of Justina’s hospitalization, left the hospital to work full time at Mass. General. She had said that when children who are victims of alleged medical child abuse are removed from their parents’ care, the picture can improve quickly. “In a number of cases where we’ve actually done that, you see the child just blossom in front of your eyes,” she said. Carole Jenny, a national leader in child protection, had made a similar comment in an interview.

Justina, however, did not seem to be blossoming. Based on their regular visits, Justina’s parents and sisters report that she remains very weak and unable to walk, and she continues to require medical intervention for bowel movements. Although it’s been impossible to obtain an independent assessment of her current state, descriptions of her condition in state and hospital records — such as the former figure-skater’s ability to lock and unlock her wheelchair — attest to the modest nature of any improvement.

And months after Newton had left Children’s, the hospital administrator overseeing the hospital’s child protection team disputed the notion that children in these cases rapidly improve once they’ve been removed from a medically abusive situation.

“The rebound that you’re describing, the miraculous emergence that you seem to be suggesting, is not something that happens if you’ve been a child who’s lived in a family where this has gone on for years,” Allison Scobbie-Carroll, director of social work, said in an interview. “What occurs is you have long-term psychiatric ramifications, and to recover from that is, in some cases, a lifelong process.”

I am not surprised at a new assessment of expected recovery rates.
If they stuck with the original assessment it would indicate they were wrong, can't have that.

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(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Parents rights - 2/27/2014 9:06:58 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I think the base issue here is the government's unbridled ability to interfere in families.

Well, there are certainly some abused children out there (which is wholly unacceptable), the state agencies charged with their protection have very few limits.

I could take the time to type out an incident with which I am very familiar that happened in NJ that was a complete travesty (I will, if prompted but it's a long type).

These agencies have no restrictions and once they remove a child, even if they're in error, they still put parents through incredible hardships just so that - on paper - they can save face.

The lack of restraint and accountability makes them evil, at their core.







Till a kid dies and then every wannabe-know-it-all-shit-for-brains is screaming that enough wasn`t done yada yada......


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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 20
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