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First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 4:30:35 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
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quote:


Court rules school can ban American flag shirts to avoid racial strife

A federal court ruled Thursday that a northern California high school did not violate the constitutional rights of its students when school officials made them turn their American flag T-shirts inside out on Cinco de Mayo or be sent home due to fears of racial violence.

The three-judge panel unanimously decided the officials’ need to protect the safety of their students outweighed the students’ freedom of expression rights.

Administrators at Live Oak High School, in the San Jose suburb of Morgan Hill, feared the American-flag shirts would enflame Latino students celebrating the Mexican holiday, and ordered the students to either turn the shirts inside out or go home for the day.
Source


Okay let me see if I have this straight, Hispanics can where the Flag of Mexico to school but American kids cant wear the US flag because it might cause a fucking incident?

This is fucking bullshit.

And this is supposed to prevent racial strife?

First of all, Cinco De Mayo isnt a fucking US holiday, has nothing to do with the US, and honestly, if you want to celebrate it, may I suggest you haul your ass back to Mexico?

I have a better idea. Instead of Americans bending over backwards to keep the Hispanics happy on their holidays, how bout we ban anything featuring the flag of Mexico from our schools permanently?

This is the United States, not North Mexico.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI
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RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 5:58:56 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:


Court rules school can ban American flag shirts to avoid racial strife

A federal court ruled Thursday that a northern California high school did not violate the constitutional rights of its students when school officials made them turn their American flag T-shirts inside out on Cinco de Mayo or be sent home due to fears of racial violence.

The three-judge panel unanimously decided the officials’ need to protect the safety of their students outweighed the students’ freedom of expression rights.

Administrators at Live Oak High School, in the San Jose suburb of Morgan Hill, feared the American-flag shirts would enflame Latino students celebrating the Mexican holiday, and ordered the students to either turn the shirts inside out or go home for the day.
Source


Okay let me see if I have this straight, Hispanics can where the Flag of Mexico to school but American kids cant wear the US flag because it might cause a fucking incident?

This is fucking bullshit.

And this is supposed to prevent racial strife?

First of all, Cinco De Mayo isnt a fucking US holiday, has nothing to do with the US, and honestly, if you want to celebrate it, may I suggest you haul your ass back to Mexico?


I don't see why a U.S. flag on Cinco De Mayo would enflame anybody. Every school I've ever seen has a U.S. flag flying out front, and they're found in most of the classrooms.

The school may have its reasons, especially if they know the individuals involved and the overall mood and climate of their institution. For whatever reason, especially in California, Cinco De Mayo has triggered some rather severe riots in schools and prisons.

I don't think it's really about Cinco De Mayo, although there might be deeper issues at work here.

There's a history between Mexico and the United States. Cinco De Mayo commemorates a battle between Mexico and France, so you're right that the holiday itself doesn't really have anything to do with the U.S.

It's a strange history between us, and we're still caught up in it. On the governmental level, Mexico is our ally and a major trading partner, but underneath all that lies something that we may not have come fully to terms with. I think there are responsible voices both in Mexico and the United States who speak out against violence and certainly don't want war of any kind.

Another thing I'm certain of: Mexico is right next door, with a population of over 100 million. They're not going anywhere, and no matter what we do, they'll still be right next door. We've tried walls, fences, aerial surveillance, watchtowers, and yet, they still find their way through, sometimes even tunneling under the ground. Now, they're working on some sort of tunnel detection equipment. The Border Patrol is all over the place. I see them out there every day.



quote:


I have a better idea. Instead of Americans bending over backwards to keep the Hispanics happy on their holidays, how bout we ban anything featuring the flag of Mexico from our schools permanently?

This is the United States, not North Mexico.


We have a few options available to us.

If we take the hardline approach, it could escalate things and possibly even lead to a breakdown of relations with Mexico, possibly even war, if not with Mexico itself, then possibly cartel or some sort of guerrilla operation. We could be playing with fire if we try to rile them up too much. There are some who don't really recognize "the border" as something sacrosanct, and they may not view U.S. claims to various territories on this continent in the same way as we do. In any case, they're not likely to be pushed around that easily. We'd have to build up our border defense even more if we go that route.

Another possibility is to make an extra effort to try to patch up our relationship with Mexico itself with the goal of repairing whatever damage we may have caused and improving conditions in that country so that their people will want to stay and not risk life and limb crossing the desert to get here. Instead of worrying so much about what goes on in the other hemisphere, let's look at helping out our own neighborhood. If we have to deal with a bit of Spanish and some Cinco De Mayo, then it may not be that bad, as long as it can keep the peace.


(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 6:12:18 AM   
vincentML


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There is nothing in the article saying the Mexican flag was worn to school.

The supremacy of school order over student freedom of speech is well established law.

Italian Americans celebrate Columbus Day; Irish Americans celebrate St Patricks Day; Puerto Rican Americans have their parade in NYC. None of us wish to 'haul our asses" back to our country of origins. Maybe we should return Texas to its original status as a Mexican state and California as well.

As an Italian American I find your comments offensive.

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 6:18:43 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:


Court rules school can ban American flag shirts to avoid racial strife

A federal court ruled Thursday that a northern California high school did not violate the constitutional rights of its students when school officials made them turn their American flag T-shirts inside out on Cinco de Mayo or be sent home due to fears of racial violence.

The three-judge panel unanimously decided the officials’ need to protect the safety of their students outweighed the students’ freedom of expression rights.

Administrators at Live Oak High School, in the San Jose suburb of Morgan Hill, feared the American-flag shirts would enflame Latino students celebrating the Mexican holiday, and ordered the students to either turn the shirts inside out or go home for the day.
Source


Okay let me see if I have this straight, Hispanics can where the Flag of Mexico to school but American kids cant wear the US flag because it might cause a fucking incident?

This is fucking bullshit.

And this is supposed to prevent racial strife?

First of all, Cinco De Mayo isnt a fucking US holiday, has nothing to do with the US, and honestly, if you want to celebrate it, may I suggest you haul your ass back to Mexico?

I have a better idea. Instead of Americans bending over backwards to keep the Hispanics happy on their holidays, how bout we ban anything featuring the flag of Mexico from our schools permanently?

This is the United States, not North Mexico.



But But But,,, tolerance, diversity, and feelings. Don't want to stand them on their heads, now do we?

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 2/28/2014 6:20:36 AM >


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 6:39:25 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

But But But,,, tolerance, diversity, and feelings. Don't want to stand them on their heads, now do we?

Ethnic pride is a reaction to the long history of intolerance toward immigrants in America.

(in reply to Yachtie)
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RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 6:40:12 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
But But But,,, tolerance, diversity, and feelings. Don't want to stand them on their heads, now do we?


And all just so that the principal could stop annual interracial violence in his school? Fuck that political correctness. A bit of people hurting one another never hurt anyone.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


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RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 6:54:57 AM   
LadyConstanze


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But if you go on about the flag, isn't there something that the flag should be treated with reference and not be turned into an item of clothing...

Ahhh yes, I remember (took me a bit longer since I'm not a US citizen), it's that thing called the Flag Code, section 8: Respect For Flag, which states in part: "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery", and "No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform".

So basically by wearing the flag as a t-shirt you're disrespecting it...

As for celebrating some Hispanic holiday, we got to stop all that nonsense ASAP, especially those pagan celebrations, Xmas, Easter, etc.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 7:44:00 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:


Court rules school can ban American flag shirts to avoid racial strife

A federal court ruled Thursday that a northern California high school did not violate the constitutional rights of its students when school officials made them turn their American flag T-shirts inside out on Cinco de Mayo or be sent home due to fears of racial violence.

The three-judge panel unanimously decided the officials’ need to protect the safety of their students outweighed the students’ freedom of expression rights.

Administrators at Live Oak High School, in the San Jose suburb of Morgan Hill, feared the American-flag shirts would enflame Latino students celebrating the Mexican holiday, and ordered the students to either turn the shirts inside out or go home for the day.
Source


Okay let me see if I have this straight, Hispanics can where the Flag of Mexico to school but American kids cant wear the US flag because it might cause a fucking incident?

This is fucking bullshit.

And this is supposed to prevent racial strife?

First of all, Cinco De Mayo isnt a fucking US holiday, has nothing to do with the US, and honestly, if you want to celebrate it, may I suggest you haul your ass back to Mexico?

I have a better idea. Instead of Americans bending over backwards to keep the Hispanics happy on their holidays, how bout we ban anything featuring the flag of Mexico from our schools permanently?

This is the United States, not North Mexico.



But But But,,, tolerance, diversity, and feelings. Don't want to stand them on their heads, now do we?



So the intolerant don`t like intolerance....awww how cute.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 7:45:56 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:


Court rules school can ban American flag shirts to avoid racial strife

A federal court ruled Thursday that a northern California high school did not violate the constitutional rights of its students when school officials made them turn their American flag T-shirts inside out on Cinco de Mayo or be sent home due to fears of racial violence.

The three-judge panel unanimously decided the officials’ need to protect the safety of their students outweighed the students’ freedom of expression rights.

Administrators at Live Oak High School, in the San Jose suburb of Morgan Hill, feared the American-flag shirts would enflame Latino students celebrating the Mexican holiday, and ordered the students to either turn the shirts inside out or go home for the day.
Source


Okay let me see if I have this straight, Hispanics can where the Flag of Mexico to school but American kids cant wear the US flag because it might cause a fucking incident?

This is fucking bullshit.

And this is supposed to prevent racial strife?

First of all, Cinco De Mayo isnt a fucking US holiday, has nothing to do with the US, and honestly, if you want to celebrate it, may I suggest you haul your ass back to Mexico?

I have a better idea. Instead of Americans bending over backwards to keep the Hispanics happy on their holidays, how bout we ban anything featuring the flag of Mexico from our schools permanently?

This is the United States, not North Mexico.


What happened to arresting the thugs that threaten violence and protecting the speaker?

As Glenn Reynolds often points out, "behavior that gets rewarded gets repeated."

If you want to suppress speech that you do not like, threaten the speaker with violence? When threats win, you will get more threats and more suppressed speech.

Ugh.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 7:47:25 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

But if you go on about the flag, isn't there something that the flag should be treated with reference and not be turned into an item of clothing...

Ahhh yes, I remember (took me a bit longer since I'm not a US citizen), it's that thing called the Flag Code, section 8: Respect For Flag, which states in part: "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery", and "No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform".

So basically by wearing the flag as a t-shirt you're disrespecting it...

As for celebrating some Hispanic holiday, we got to stop all that nonsense ASAP, especially those pagan celebrations, Xmas, Easter, etc.


There is a difference between the flag and a picture or likeness of a flag.


_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 7:55:48 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:


Court rules school can ban American flag shirts to avoid racial strife

A federal court ruled Thursday that a northern California high school did not violate the constitutional rights of its students when school officials made them turn their American flag T-shirts inside out on Cinco de Mayo or be sent home due to fears of racial violence.

The three-judge panel unanimously decided the officials’ need to protect the safety of their students outweighed the students’ freedom of expression rights.

Administrators at Live Oak High School, in the San Jose suburb of Morgan Hill, feared the American-flag shirts would enflame Latino students celebrating the Mexican holiday, and ordered the students to either turn the shirts inside out or go home for the day.
Source


Okay let me see if I have this straight, Hispanics can where the Flag of Mexico to school but American kids cant wear the US flag because it might cause a fucking incident?

This is fucking bullshit.

And this is supposed to prevent racial strife?

First of all, Cinco De Mayo isnt a fucking US holiday, has nothing to do with the US, and honestly, if you want to celebrate it, may I suggest you haul your ass back to Mexico?

I have a better idea. Instead of Americans bending over backwards to keep the Hispanics happy on their holidays, how bout we ban anything featuring the flag of Mexico from our schools permanently?

This is the United States, not North Mexico.


What happened to arresting the thugs that threaten violence and protecting the speaker?

As Glenn Reynolds often points out, "behavior that gets rewarded gets repeated."

If you want to suppress speech that you do not like, threaten the speaker with violence? When threats win, you will get more threats and more suppressed speech.

Ugh.


Thanks Aylee for pointing out so well why it is that courts have given schools and school administrators very wide latitude regarding clothes and symbols on clothes.


Violence.....

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Aylee)
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RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 8:10:43 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59



Thanks Aylee for pointing out so well why it is that courts have given schools and school administrators very wide latitude regarding clothes and symbols on clothes.


Violence.....


But I do not think that students should get their way because they threaten violence. I think that sort of precedent is doubleplusungood.

Also, I am not so sure that this ruling is in line with California law.

http://law.onecle.com/california/education/48950.html

quote:

(a) School districts operating one or more high schools … shall not make or enforce a rule subjecting a high school pupil to disciplinary sanctions solely on the basis of conduct that is speech or other communication that, when engaged in outside of the campus, is protected from governmental restriction by the First Amendment ….
(d) This section does not prohibit the imposition of discipline for harassment, threats, or intimidation, unless constitutionally protected ….
(f) The Legislature finds and declares that free speech rights are subject to reasonable time, place, and manner regulations.


Unfortunately I think that FIRE (Foundation for Individual Rights in Education) only deals with colleges.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 10:38:21 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

There is nothing in the article saying the Mexican flag was worn to school.

The supremacy of school order over student freedom of speech is well established law.

Italian Americans celebrate Columbus Day; Irish Americans celebrate St Patricks Day; Puerto Rican Americans have their parade in NYC. None of us wish to 'haul our asses" back to our country of origins. Maybe we should return Texas to its original status as a Mexican state and California as well.

As an Italian American I find your comments offensive.

Do Irish, Italian, or Puerto Ricans threaten racial tension over the fact students where US flags to high school?

Three students who wore the flag of their country and were told to go home or wear the shirts inside out on Cinco De Mayo because it might upset the Hispanic students celebrating "their" holiday. That is a bunch of bullshit.

You dont find the fact those students could not wear shirts with the US flag to school offensive?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 10:42:12 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

There is nothing in the article saying the Mexican flag was worn to school.

The supremacy of school order over student freedom of speech is well established law.

Italian Americans celebrate Columbus Day; Irish Americans celebrate St Patricks Day; Puerto Rican Americans have their parade in NYC. None of us wish to 'haul our asses" back to our country of origins. Maybe we should return Texas to its original status as a Mexican state and California as well.

As an Italian American I find your comments offensive.

Actually Texas was an independent nation when it joined the U S so are we supposed to make them part of Mexico when Mexico couldn't.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 10:50:35 AM   
mnottertail


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Mexico could and did for many centuries before we waltzed in.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 10:54:11 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

But if you go on about the flag, isn't there something that the flag should be treated with reference and not be turned into an item of clothing...

Ahhh yes, I remember (took me a bit longer since I'm not a US citizen), it's that thing called the Flag Code, section 8: Respect For Flag, which states in part: "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery", and "No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform".

So basically by wearing the flag as a t-shirt you're disrespecting it...

As for celebrating some Hispanic holiday, we got to stop all that nonsense ASAP, especially those pagan celebrations, Xmas, Easter, etc.



I have a military issue jacket from my army days, on one shoulder is the American Flag, OD, but still. If the article of clothing is made from an American flag, you are dishonoring it.

If the article of clothing has a picture or representation of the American Flag, it is a different story. The term "wear the flag" refers not to actually wearing the flag, but wearing a patch, or print of the flag on your clothes.

As for the Texas war of independence, you might want to know that the majority of the Army of Texas were not Anglo Americans, they were a minority in Texas at the time, but Mexicans living in Texas who were just as tired of Santa Anna's bullshit as the Anglos were.

But what are a few facts....

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 11:21:20 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

But if you go on about the flag, isn't there something that the flag should be treated with reference and not be turned into an item of clothing...

Ahhh yes, I remember (took me a bit longer since I'm not a US citizen), it's that thing called the Flag Code, section 8: Respect For Flag, which states in part: "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery", and "No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform".

So basically by wearing the flag as a t-shirt you're disrespecting it...

As for celebrating some Hispanic holiday, we got to stop all that nonsense ASAP, especially those pagan celebrations, Xmas, Easter, etc.



I have a military issue jacket from my army days, on one shoulder is the American Flag, OD, but still. If the article of clothing is made from an American flag, you are dishonoring it.

If the article of clothing has a picture or representation of the American Flag, it is a different story. The term "wear the flag" refers not to actually wearing the flag, but wearing a patch, or print of the flag on your clothes.

As for the Texas war of independence, you might want to know that the majority of the Army of Texas were not Anglo Americans, they were a minority in Texas at the time, but Mexicans living in Texas who were just as tired of Santa Anna's bullshit as the Anglos were.

But what are a few facts....

Two other Mexican states also revolted in 1835, only Texas won.
Stephen Austin had supported Santa Anna and the constitution of 1826, it was when Santa Anna set that constitution aside
that the 3 states revolted.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 11:29:24 AM   
mnottertail


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And then texas revolted again in 1861 and took a shitkicking.

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 11:35:49 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
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Um you tolerance people know that they don't celebrate Cinco De Mayo in Mexico other than Puebla, right?

To most of Mexico May fifth is just another day.





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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: First it was press one for english, now.... - 2/28/2014 11:37:31 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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How do the intolerant people know that?  Interestingly enough, we dont celebrate cinco deMayo either up here.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 20
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