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Who drew this Red Line? - 2/28/2014 3:08:03 PM

DesideriScuri

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http://news.yahoo.com/obama-comments-on-ukraine-214813649.html

quote:

President Barack Obama bluntly warned Russia on Friday that it will face international condemnation as well as unspecified "costs" for any military intervention in neighboring Ukraine.

"We are now deeply concerned by reports of military movements taken by the Russian Federation inside of Ukraine," Obama said in a hastily arranged public statement from the White House briefing room.

"Just days after the world came to Russia for the Olympic games, it would invite the condemnation of nations around the world. And indeed, the United States will stand with the international community in affirming that there will be costs for any military intervention in Ukraine," the president warned.

His remarks came after top Ukrainian officials charged that Russian troops had taken over the two main airports in the strategic Crimea peninsula.

Did ~~Obama~~ the international community just draw a red line?

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 2/28/2014 3:09:26 PM

mnottertail

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Well it certainly wasn't cowardly nutsackers.

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 2/28/2014 3:13:58 PM

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You've heard of the cold war. Now you can see it. There it is.

So. You figure someone is starting something?

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 2/28/2014 3:23:29 PM

OsideGirl

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In the words of Robin Williams: "Stop! Or I'll say stop again!"

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 2/28/2014 4:22:59 PM

Lucylastic

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Hmmm I didnt see him say there was a red line...or what the line stood for
much like last time
ps the only reason this thread has died is more to do with the responses of the OP on the other thread I fear...
I accidentally posted a post to it, should have here.

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 2/28/2014 6:10:16 PM

lovmuffin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

In the words of Robin Williams: "Stop! Or I'll say stop again!"

Yeah, or he can write an angry letter telling Putin how angry we are with him.

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 5:28:40 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

In the words of Robin Williams: "Stop! Or I'll say stop again!"

Yeah, or he can write an angry letter telling Putin how angry we are with him.

So what would your response have been ? Full scale military intervention ? Fire off a few Nukes ? Sit on your arse ?

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 5:50:15 AM

KYsissy

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There won't be much of a real response and Putin knows it. This isn't a knock against Obama, it doesn't matter who is in the whitehouse, there is not much else to do but register your protest. It has only been about 20 years since the Soviet Union broke up.

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 6:00:10 AM

lovmuffin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

In the words of Robin Williams: "Stop! Or I'll say stop again!"

Yeah, or he can write an angry letter telling Putin how angry we are with him.

So what would your response have been ? Full scale military intervention ? Fire off a few Nukes ? Sit on your arse ?

Certainly nothing overt, I mean who wants to tangle with the Russians right now. Definately something covert, so we'll never know untill some day when it's unclassified. Anything helping the the Ukranians to resist making it as much of a pain in the ass for the Russians as possible like in Afganistan.

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 6:10:41 AM

mnottertail

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And become the father of alQueda like Ronald Reagan? I dont see Russia giving up their equivalent to Norfolk, VA on the Black Sea.

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 6:29:57 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Hmmm I didnt see him say there was a red line...or what the line stood for
much like last time
ps the only reason this thread has died is more to do with the responses of the OP on the other thread I fear...
I accidentally posted a post to it, should have here.

Seriously? He has to actually say the words "red line" for there to be a red line drawn?

It's amazing how you have already tolled the death knell on this thread that is only a day old.

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 6:32:56 AM

mnottertail

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Yeah, well foolish threads are foolish threads. Survival of the fittest, let the market decide, all that sort of horseshit.

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 6:33:53 AM

Lucylastic

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nope... just that the other one had a more deserving target of derision.
I think you need to re read it...because I was bemoaning the fact that the other one had more dumb comments AND thankfully they closed the other thread.
PS the red line comment, was about the last time" a red line" was mentioned...and the shellacking taken over using such a term...I seem to remember certain posters here, thinking it was the scandal of the day.
I can dig out the comments if you like.
And yes, him saying it, and someone taking it as code, is important, being someone who loves semantics in everything else..I dont see why you should be upset that this one has to be spoken out loud.

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 8:21:31 AM

KYsissy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I dont see Russia giving up their equivalent to Norfolk, VA on the Black Sea.

Right. If there was serious unrest in Cuba i could see Guantanamo suddenly get very very busy.

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 10:08:33 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
nope... just that the other one had a more deserving target of derision.
I think you need to re read it...because I was bemoaning the fact that the other one had more dumb comments AND thankfully they closed the other thread.
PS the red line comment, was about the last time" a red line" was mentioned...and the shellacking taken over using such a term...I seem to remember certain posters here, thinking it was the scandal of the day.
I can dig out the comments if you like.
And yes, him saying it, and someone taking it as code, is important, being someone who loves semantics in everything else..I dont see why you should be upset that this one has to be spoken out loud.

Sorry, Lucy, but I think you missed the point of the OP.

The key was the bolded part, "President Barack Obama bluntly warned Russia on Friday that it will face international condemnation as well as unspecified "costs" for any military intervention in neighboring Ukraine. "

Last time, President Obama said

quote:

"We have communicated in no uncertain terms with every player in the region, that that's a red line for us, and that there would be enormous consequences if we start seeing movement on the chemical weapons front, or the use of chemical weapons. That would change my calculations significantly."

Then, he said,

quote:

"I didn't set a red line. The world set a red line."

So, in saying "that's a red line for us," it's the world drawing the line.

Now ,he goes and says that Russia "will face international condemnation as well as unspecified 'costs'" for action in the Ukraine. So, Obama has communicated that there is a red line. Now, the question remains, who drew that line? Did Obama draw the line for the rest of the world, or has the world drawn the line and Obama just let Putin know about it?

Now, when chem weapons were used in Syria, Obama got his bluff called and backed off saying that it wasn't him that drew the line, but the international community that did. This time, he's already taken a step back from a leadership position by falling back on the international community right from the get go.

Make no mistake about it, Lucy, President Obama clearly stated that there is a red line over Russia's involvement in the Ukraine. Since Putin crossed it, we'll just have to see how Obama responds.

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 11:01:09 AM

mnottertail

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No, hold the phone that isnt what happened, the nutsackers displayed their extreme cowardice, remember?

Lets not rewrite nutsacker history while it is still going on. Thats to soon to get away with nutsacker lies. Even nutsackers aren't that fuckin stupid. oh.......wait.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/1/2014 11:04:22 AM >

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 11:13:58 AM

Lucylastic

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yeah they are

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 11:32:51 AM

cloudboy

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No. The Ukraine is firmly within the Russian sphere of influence. Some kind of compromise will probably be reached. Russia cannot be too inclined to occupy the Ukraine while installing a puppet regime that would generate massive protests and dissidence. This is also something Americans don't understand, the mindset of how hostile, warring neighbors must coexist. Russia's been in this situation since it was formed, and it's also been invaded three times on a large scale by the French, Germans, and Mongol Horde.

The USA has no moral authority whatsever, either b/c of our previous meddlings in: Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Chile, Iran, Vietnam, et. al. We no more believe in self determination than Putin. We are just more hypocritical about it.

Putin saw us invade IRAQ to find and dismantle WMD. After that FARSE, why should he even listen to us?

Anyone else out there read reviews of George Kennan's papers released this week. What he thought back in 1940 still applies today in many respects.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 3/1/2014 11:40:17 AM >

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 11:37:42 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
No. The Ukraine is firmly within the Russian sphere of influence. Some kind of compromise will probably be reached. Russia cannot be too inclined to occupy the Ukraine while installing a puppet regime that would generate massive protests and dissidence. This is also something Americans don't understand, the mindset of how hostile, warring neighbors must coexist. Russia's been in this situation since it was formed, and it's also been invaded three times on a large scale by the French, Germans, and Mongol Horde.
The USA has no moral authority whatsever, either b/c of our previous meddlings in: Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Chile, Iran, Vietnam, et. al. We no more believe in self determination that Putin. We are just more hypocritical about it.
Anyone else out their read review of George Kennan's papers released this week. What he thought back in 1940 still applies today in many respects.

Like he had the authority to draw a red line in Syria. Having the authority or not makes no difference in what Obama did with the Ukraine/Russia thing.

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RE: Who drew this Red Line? - 3/1/2014 11:38:39 AM

mnottertail

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He had the authority, the nutsackers shit their pants. End of that story.

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