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ThePrincessKali -> Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 4:09:21 PM)

I put this under General BDSM bc it's about religion but also the psychology behind it.

So I had a submissive contact me via a findom specific site. He was local and was interested in meeting. He was very adamant about public humiliation. I explained that I did mild public humiliation but I wasn't about to have him crawling behind me in a shopping mall. We decided to meet for a vanilla dinner to chat and get to know each other. I'm a firm believer that someone is not just their BDSM preference. I'm a Domme but I'm a person first and foremost as are submissives, hence my idea of a vanilla chat and dinner. Straight away he brought up his religious beliefs, which I prefer not to discuss when I first meet someone. I thought it was just to establish boundaries but he spent about half of the dinner talking about his faith. I respect everyone's beliefs. I came to find he did missionary work, was a Virgin (he was waiting until marriage), only used a computer at work (he got rid of his personal computer bc he was too tempted to watch porn, and was basically an extremist. I am not at all, grew up Catholic and it didn't work for me. But I respect anyone's beliefs so I let him talk. I found it a bit ironic someone wanted me to sit on their face and spend their money but feared looking at a woman below her chin because he was "stealing that away from her husband." His words not mine. He also spoke of his virginity as a "gift" for his future wife. A bit extreme for me but like I said I wasn't about to tell him that's how I felt as it wasn't my place.

That night after I got home he blew up my phone begging to meet me so he could lick my shoes. He begged me to step in mud and even dog poop so he could lick it off. I told him to go to bed. He apologized the next day saying his "desires " has gotten the best of him. He did the same the following night and apologized the next morning. A few days after or initial meet I agreed to meet him. He wanted to pay me to like my boots clean. I agreed. He gave me the money online and then ten minutes later told me he was not going to meet me. He had decided to renounce the BDSM lifestyle because it was going against Jesus or something. I told him that if that's what he thought was best then I supported it. He asked me if I would treat him to dinner since he had already given me money online. I said that was fine. However it would have to be the following week as I had a few things going on this weekend.

He proceeded to text me incessantly asking about the dinner. I told him I wasn't free for a few days six times. I told him he needed to calm down, I'm a honest person if he wanted the money he could just ask. He then began to "preach" to me that I was going to hell. I was a "sinner" because I live a BDSM lifestyle and that being a good person wasn't enough. If I didn't accept Jesus as my savior I would suffer eternal damnation and burn in hell. This coming from a guy who a day and a half earlier was begging to lick dog crap off my boots. I explained that I was not Christian and I was very content with my life and he seemed to be the one struggling. He attempted to preach and quote bible verses for about a half an hour and said he was trying to "save me." If I didn't accept Jesus and his lifestyle I was going to hell. I'm a firm believer of the "live and let live" policy. I was extremely offended by what he said. I told him I would be donating the money he gave me to a tolerance organization and deleted his number.

I'm sure he struggles with being sexually frustrated and maybe that's why he turned to BDSM. He obviously had some personal demons or was struggling with his sexual preferences. But I don't recall anything in the bible about BDSM lol. How is this going against Jesus's will? Isn't it a bit hypocritical to act this way? So I suppose I'm wondering if anyone is Christian and struggles with their desire to submit or dominate. I know this was an extreme case just wanted to put it out there.



Inghammar -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 4:24:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali

But I don't recall anything in the bible about BDSM lol. How is this going against Jesus's will?



Well notwithstanding the last half of the 'Passion of the Christ'!

It's likely that this person isn't in a position to balance theology with power exchange practices and appears to be rather religiously fixated - so further discussion would not be helpful for anyone. If you haven't already, I would leave this person to sort out his turmoil on his own.



bondman53 -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 4:29:24 PM)

It's an interesting post and one that I think illuminates the danger of fanaticism whether religious, political or sexual. D/s and BDSM are when you come down to it nothing more than slightly deviant games played by consenting adults, the problem arises when someone like the gentleman you describe begins to believe that it's real. By the way you describe his religious zeal I would hazard a guess that he has a very focused outlook on life. Perhaps he saw BDSM as a way of purging his soul, perhaps he believed that through pain and humiliation he would be paying a penance and receive forgiveness for past sins and gain some kind of salvation. Many saints and martyr's went through dreadful torments and humiliation in order to receive God's blessing.
I think you probably had a lucky escape, the last thing anyone needs is a fanatic of any kind obsessing over them.




pg4g -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 4:38:16 PM)

Hey, I'm actually a Christian myself. I had many hangups around being gay, and was an "exgay" for my teenager years. Tonnes of repression etc. BDSM didn't factor in - I was in denial about that stuff until way after I broke free of my repression. Even then, I only dealt with it because I'd had the experience of one type of repression to overcome my second.

I think cultural factors and norms within religious groups can really muck with people's heads. You can go from sexual frustration to repression hormonally within 10 minutes, and I often did. I feel sorry for those who have to deal with this, apologetic to those who endured my Christian "sexual bipolar" and I also feel for the guy. He's as much a victim of his own head.



FrostedFlake -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 5:03:41 PM)

Let's just admit up front, no one has a clue what might be on Gods' mind, whether he exists or not.

Those who think they do... are the biggest problem we got.



DarkSteven -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 5:47:01 PM)

First, keep in mind that when the Bible was written, women had no legal rights and were essentially property. Not surprisingly, the Bible espouses maledom pretty seriously. Paul's infamous letter has the passage, "Wives, obey your husbands. Husbands, love your wives," which sums up ideal maledom for me. While modern day feminists complain about that, it was pretty radical in its day.

Also, men kept slaves and had concubines - there's no question that polygamy was accepted.

Enjoying bondage and impact play isn't in there, AFAIK.

The kind of conflicted wacko you described - I've heard of men who frequent kink sites trying to save kinky women. So they can look at nekkid pics AND feel virtuous at the same time.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 6:06:02 PM)



****Disclaimer****

I do not believe that BDSM flies in the face of Christianity!!!

****End Disclaimer****

There's nothing specifically in the bible about not smoking weed, either; nor indulging in heroin or cocaine ... You get my point.

I believe there is an admonition against "strong drink".

The point is some things may not have necessarily "existed" back in those days. If something wasn't on the radar, of course it wouldn't specifically be mentioned in the bible.

These facts, when applied to the OP question, don't necessarily bear out the conclusion that the question itself seems to draw.

" ... but I don't recall anything in the bible about BDSM. How is this going against Jesus' will?"

There were no firearms back (or Jesus might have had something to say about them).

Jesus never said that his ministers should not marry. He suggested that they shouldn't but never forbade it.

Just because Jesus never spoke out against something specifically, doesn't mean that engaging in it isn't displeasing to him.

Having said that, I don't think masochism is a new thing and I'd be willing to bet that there were some slaves that "enjoyed" some of the activities that are associated with slavery/bondage.

I discovered, a long time ago that I had to look in my heart and allow my God to speak to me to make determinations about what is right and wrong.

My inner sense tells me that (almost) all humans are born with a conscience (of course, for those that have no conscience, we have laws).

If something doesn't offend my conscience, I'm probably on firm spiritual ground.






ThePrincessKali -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 6:36:56 PM)

Thanks for the input everyone. I guess it was just weird he went from one extreme to the other so quickly. I suspect he may of been sexually frustrated and it manifested in BDSM since he wasn't actually engaging in sex while practicing being a submissive. Idk if his trying to "save me" was him lashing out bc he was angry at himself for being a sub or what but it was a very strange experience.



pg4g -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 6:49:29 PM)

Most Christians would base this on a simple premise: Jesus' words to "love one another" and the "do unto others as you would have done unto you".

Many christians wouldn't understand the concept of enjoying pain or dominance, so they'd see this type of treatment as unloving and hateful, and ultimately evil.



OsideGirl -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 7:27:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali

Thanks for the input everyone. I guess it was just weird he went from one extreme to the other so quickly. I suspect he may of been sexually frustrated and it manifested in BDSM since he wasn't actually engaging in sex while practicing being a submissive. Idk if his trying to "save me" was him lashing out bc he was angry at himself for being a sub or what but it was a very strange experience.


My view would be that he hates himself. His upbringing and belief system (commonly referred to as "environmental red tapes") dictates that what he wants and who he is, is wrong. He will continue the roller coaster until he goes to one extreme or the other...or comes to terms with it.

He needs a good therapist without religious affiliations.

And yes, his lashing out at you is because of his anger at himself. You personify what he hates about himself and it's worse because you are happy with who you are.



NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 7:32:45 PM)

I'm not a Christian, but I was raised in a Christian family. If I remember correctly, there were Masters & slaves in the Bible, so I'm not so sure that Christianity can say D/s or M/s is immoral. Women had virtually no rights back then in Bible times, though, so I can see where an extremist Christian might feel that the F/m version of D/s is immoral.

Technically, D/s or M/s, the power exchange part of it, is not exactly the same as BDSM, the kink part of it. Also, I disagree with bondman53. D/s and M/s are not necessarily just deviant games and not real. The BDSM part of it might just be deviant games, lol, but the power exchange part of it can be a very real part of people's relationships in that is their preferred relationship style, just like any other relationship style that people might choose.

If someone started preaching to me about being saved, hellfire and damnation, I would have absolutely no tolerance for it. I'm one of these people that I have my faith, you have yours, and we'll get along just fine as long as neither of us pushes ours onto the other person. I'm actually a very open-minded person as long as nothing pushed on me. Push yours onto me and I will cut you off. I guess I'm just a meanie that way.

NBMG



pg4g -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 7:39:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali

Thanks for the input everyone. I guess it was just weird he went from one extreme to the other so quickly. I suspect he may of been sexually frustrated and it manifested in BDSM since he wasn't actually engaging in sex while practicing being a submissive. Idk if his trying to "save me" was him lashing out bc he was angry at himself for being a sub or what but it was a very strange experience.


My view would be that he hates himself. His upbringing and belief system (commonly referred to as "environmental red tapes") dictates that what he wants and who he is, is wrong. He will continue the roller coaster until he goes to one extreme or the other...or comes to terms with it.

He needs a good therapist without religious affiliations.

And yes, his lashing out at you is because of his anger at himself. You personify what he hates about himself and it's worse because you are happy with who you are.



Dead right.



littlewonder -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 8:54:43 PM)

I am a Christian and even I think he was just a nutjob. Delete, block, move on.



LadyPact -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/1/2014 11:27:44 PM)

Fast reply.

I'm a person of faith. If I had to label that faith, "Christian" would be the best descriptor. That means, yes, I believe in the trinity. No, I am not like some of those folks who are the 'religious right' and I hope to God that I will never go to some of the places of hypocrisy that some of the extremists go.

That being said, I do think you have to come to terms to be both kinky and Christian. I mean, if we're going to hell for WIITWD, I'm probably driving the bus. I'm a female, poly Dominant who happens to be sadistic. Who could be in more trouble than Me?

Have I struggled with it? Yes. (Past tense.) I don't anymore. It's rather similar to accepting sadism, in a way. You know how you're always taught not to hurt other people and most sadists have to go through that process of accepting that they like hurting people? It's kind of like that. I just figure God and I will have a really long talk when I get there.



FieryOpal -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/2/2014 12:07:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

Most Christians would base this on a simple premise: Jesus' words to "love one another" and the "do unto others as you would have done unto you".

Many christians wouldn't understand the concept of enjoying pain or dominance, so they'd see this type of treatment as unloving and hateful, and ultimately evil.

As a Christian, I have no conflict, shame or guilt about being a Dominant woman, wanting a submissive man, and needing to be in a D/s relationship dynamic with him.

I follow the Golden Rule. IF I were submissive, how would I want my Mistress to treat me? How would I want our interactions to be like?

My entire mental framework is love-based, whatever BDSM we consensually engage in is love-based. "God is Love." (1 John 4:8)
For me, personally, having this firm foundation of love eclipses everything else.

For those Christians who feel torn, it might help to refer to this: "Perfect love covers a multitude of sins." (1 Peter 4:8)
The NKJV states: "And above all things have fervent love for one another, for love will cover a multitude of sins."
As for perfect love conceptually, which has been equated to Grace, or the pardoning of sins: "Perfect love casts out fear." (1 John 4:18)

I do not employ a fear or humiliation & punishment dynamic. Discipline is to teach lessons and to make improvements, which isn't the same thing.

I don't expect others to share my personal beliefs or philosophies. I am reconciled to my Maker and find my own inner peace in this manner.



pg4g -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/2/2014 12:22:20 AM)

You made me smile, FieryOpal. I have a very same philosophy. I see no conflict there. Unfortunately, many Christians do, and it creates the wonderful bipolar flips for those who hate themselves for feeling it.



ThePrincessKali -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/2/2014 4:33:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

You made me smile, FieryOpal. I have a very same philosophy. I see no conflict there. Unfortunately, many Christians do, and it creates the wonderful bipolar flips for those who hate themselves for feeling it.


That makes sense and probably explains the extremely abrupt personality changes. This boy went from pleading with me to lick dog crap off of my boots to telling me I was going to hell for my lifestyle in literally ten minutes. It was one of the strangest things I've seen lol. But if the internal struggle was that great I suppose I can see it.



pg4g -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/2/2014 4:55:31 AM)

I did something similar when I had my first sexual experience with a man. I flipped within a matter of a minute, started talking about how I was doing the wrong thing, how I shouldn't be touching a man like that, how I was supposed to be straight, how I had sworn against this, how I'd lost control and done something terrible, and that God could 'deal with both of our desires'. I was a trainee minister at the time.

It's the same type of repression and denial I'm sure this guy has done on himself, and it's a terrible thing to live through the rollercoaster ride of emotions due to the conflict of identity. Identity as a man who believes he's following his God, and identity as a man who feels a need to submit to a woman. I feel for this guy. He's got a tough road ahead of him to work out that there's no conflict. He hates one side of himself. It took me 6 years to work mine out. I hope he works his out a lot quicker.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/2/2014 5:01:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Fast reply.


Have I struggled with it? Yes. (Past tense.) I don't anymore. It's rather similar to accepting sadism, in a way. You know how you're always taught not to hurt other people and most sadists have to go through that process of accepting that they like hurting people? It's kind of like that. I just figure God and I will have a really long talk when I get there.



I went through the same stuff, the "I'm the one who'll help the old lady carry the shopping bags, I pick up stray dogs, stray kittens and sometimes stray people and try to help them, why does it turn me on to do .... to somebody?" I can't thank my mentor enough, she really made it simple, as the consensual thing, I always wondered a bit if they aren't just doing it to please me, she told me that guys search out pro-Dommes, then go to an ATM, willingly taking out money to book a session that isn't cheap all for the purpose of experiencing pain, how much more consent can you get?
It made sense and it let me be at peace with my own sadistic streak.

I'm not religious, so I don't know about the whole hell thing (but if you're the bus driver I'm not worried about a crash), but I can't imagine that an all-mighty, all-powerful god would be overly concerned what consulting adults do with each other, I'd think he'd have bigger fish to fry, like people hurting each other without consent, killing, murdering, wars and all that stuff. It's a bit like that gay thing, since we're apparently created in the image of god, if he'd mind gays, he could stop making them.



chatterbox24 -> RE: Christianity and BDSM (3/2/2014 5:04:52 AM)

I feel bad for the poor chap. He is wrestling with his own temptation demons, is definitely going through something major, and it made him act and sound like a complete confused lunatic. Basically at this point he is. He doesn't sound stable and almost scarey. I feel equally as bad for you for getting his projection.
I am a Christian and BDSM followed in certain ways doesn't seem the least bit evil to me. If someone likes pain, they like pain, but I don't believe they should be seriously hurt to cause future harm in the long run. If a woman is more dominant, and a man is more submissive, then perfect match right? Just in my personal opinion people struggle with what they have been taught or told instead of believing what feels ok to them inside the practice of Christianity. Its about finding what is acceptable and right for ones self within the moral code and practices of your own knowledge given by reading the word, not by what others say. No one can be happy trying to live another humans code. You must find your own.



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