The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (Full Version)

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CelticPrince -> The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 8:23:00 AM)

Ok folks,

ponder this abit before firing off your thoughts!

For many years now I have observed what i perceive is an effect of "love" on the D/s dynamic in r/l. I myself have experienced it.

When an D and an s get together to form a household in r/l , what is the effect of the love emtion on the D/s dynamic. Does is make it more acute or less acute. Does the D/s dynamic give way to vanilla kind of love as the comfort level of vanilla style living takes over?

CP



Caretakr -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 8:25:58 AM)

Well, I think a Master needs to keep a level of objectivity about a slave as property. Which means not letting hormones and emotions impair his ability to manange it.

As far as the slave loving the Master-I encourage it, since it enslaves them more deeply.



thetammyjo -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 8:31:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Ok folks,

ponder this abit before firing off your thoughts!

For many years now I have observed what i perceive is an effect of "love" on the D/s dynamic in r/l. I myself have experienced it.

When an D and an s get together to form a household in r/l , what is the effect of the love emtion on the D/s dynamic. Does is make it more acute or less acute. Does the D/s dynamic give way to vanilla kind of love as the comfort level of vanilla style living takes over?

CP


I think it depends on the couple.

I've known some people who actually can do more and push further as they get more comfortable with each other -- I'm one of these.

Other people find that love, I'm assuming the romantic type, starts to make them feel guilty about treating their submissive partner certain ways.

I see this play out more in terms of SM and time set aside for "scenes" than in terms of Ds though. I happen to believe that most human relationships have non-recognized and non-consensual Ds aspects to them anyway so its really recognizing, choosing, and negotiation that sets Ds in a BDSM sense apart from regular old Ds in everyday life.

I've known many people who find that when they fall into romantic love they have difficulty doing SM or heavier scenes -- and I've known this to piss off many masochists when it happens. I actually feel freer and more comfortable being heavier because I feel like I can gauge my partner more when we have multipled levels of connection over several years. I guess its just the way I love -- I think "mine" and that means I get to do what I want (within my need to also be loving and supportive but that never changes for me).



twicehappy -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 9:02:40 AM)

For me there can only be an M/s relationship where i love and am loved. I can honestly say love can adversely affect the M/s part if the owner is not strong enough not to let love interfere with the M/s principles. It can also positively affect it making it grow ever deeper and more intense.

We all live in the vanilla world too so to me the trick is keeping the balance between the two.




LL1aintbehavin -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 9:02:50 AM)

i am in a D/s relationship that has been deepened by love and affection.  i feel, on my side that it has helped as there is a deeper level or understanding, and depper level of wanting to serve and please in every way.  There is love behind any one of my actions for Him.
In our play aspect, He feels He can take me higher and push harder as the level of trust and caring is there, and wanting to push futher all the time.
To me the love enhances, and i never forget that He is my Dom first and foremost, and He does not let His love for me change what i can get away with.
i hope that makes sense.
aintbehavin



Tashacurly -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 9:12:35 AM)

Hmmm, interesting question. I am in a poly d/s relationship. There is a GREAT amount of love involved on all our parts, both me (being slave) and my Master and Lord. I don't personally feel it has effected our relationship for the worse...but has made it much more intense and meaningful. Yeah...a person can submit, yeah a person can be a slave....but when said slave or submissive honestly, truly LOVES their master/lord/owner....it seems to be so much more meaningful...of course, this is just my opinion.

Tasha



juliaoceania -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 9:16:54 AM)

I guess I am more likely to trust more and more deeply if I feel my Dominant has emotional ties to me. The deeper the tie, the more the trust. What is deeper than love? Personally if I thought my Mate was unable to love me increasingly over time I wouldn't trust him at all... but that is just me.



Submotive -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 9:26:19 AM)

quote:

When an D and an s get together to form a household in r/l , what is the effect of the love emtion on the D/s dynamic. Does is make it more acute or less acute. Does the D/s dynamic give way to vanilla kind of love as the comfort level of vanilla style living takes over?

For me the D/s and M/s dynamic is greatly enhanced by love. Prior to becoming Master's i played with different Doms. There was always something missing for me. i couldn't truly submit because submission is not about the kink so much as an internal process for me. Physical submission is easy, except that, for me, it always felt very superficial.
 
D/s and M/s and i refer to both as Master and i do share both, are more about the internal process than the external. How well i am able to bend my will to His in those times when i'm not getting "my way" and maybe there isn't anything more in it for me than the fulfillment of pleasing Him and making His life more comfortable. i can only sincerely desire to do this with love in my heart. i have no true desire to submit or please someone who doesn't matter to me.



Mercnbeth -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 9:29:36 AM)

Love is the most potent of aphrodisiac. Love of the relationship and the dynamic within it eliminates the possibility of love for your partner effecting the "play" aspect. If anything love, and confidently knowing your partner feels the same, enhances the experiences within the relationship. Loving each other frees you to fulfill each others fantasies. It eliminates any concern that something physical experienced with another will create a problem between you. Love may not be essential, but it's a GREAT asset for any relationship. A M/s relationship is no exception.



Mavis -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 9:36:40 AM)

i lke my M/s without the romantic overtones, but if a deep caring or "love" doesn't develope,  owie. Something isn't working right (for me)

i did encounter this prob when i was D/s "dating" though...  As we got closer, the D/s strictness i needed lessened. i didn't progress with those relationships, fearing they would end up nearly nilla, and i wanted M/s eventually.

i think the danger signal is..  if the Dominant gets to a point where sub/slaves company is more important than her obedience, it's hosed.  His or Her focus is more on keeping the sub/slave "happy" and somehow that leaves her unfulfilled in the power exchange.

i am happy to say that i am finally in a place where i know that as delightful as i am <giggles>  i'd still be gone if i fell into a pattern of non-compliance.  Now, by that, i don't mean that D/s or M/s relationships should be "throw-away" during the rough times, but it's nice to know the standards don't drop to where there is no challenge going forward.



MHOO314 -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 9:37:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Ok folks,

ponder this abit before firing off your thoughts!

For many years now I have observed what i perceive is an effect of "love" on the D/s dynamic in r/l. I myself have experienced it.

When an D and an s get together to form a household in r/l , what is the effect of the love emtion on the D/s dynamic. Does is make it more acute or less acute. Does the D/s dynamic give way to vanilla kind of love as the comfort level of vanilla style living takes over?

CP


I would ask what kind of love?
 
Romantic? The kind we think of in "love based" relationships?
Adoration? The kind a slave feels for a Master/Mistress that provides them safety, comfort, freedom, protection?
Devotion?  The commitment between D/s, M/s and the reverse that differs from Romance and adoration?
Maternal/Paternal: The parent to the child? The nurtoring, teaching, guiding?
 
For I believe that in some of those, the vanilla factor doesn't enter, but can they also be called forms of love?



slavejali -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 10:23:58 AM)

I think the only time "Love" would make a D/s relationship turn vanilla is if one or both of the people had some kinda thought inside them that really thought D/s was abusive or bad in someway, so if they actually loved someone, they couldnt continue with the D/s.




Caretakr -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 10:35:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

i lke my M/s without the romantic overtones, but if a deep caring or "love" doesn't develope,  owie. Something isn't working right (for me)

i did encounter this prob when i was D/s "dating" though...  As we got closer, the D/s strictness i needed lessened. i didn't progress with those relationships, fearing they would end up nearly nilla, and i wanted M/s eventually.

i think the danger signal is..  if the Dominant gets to a point where sub/slaves company is more important than her obedience, it's hosed.  His or Her focus is more on keeping the sub/slave "happy" and somehow that leaves her unfulfilled in the power exchange.

i am happy to say that i am finally in a place where i know that as delightful as i am <giggles>  i'd still be gone if i fell into a pattern of non-compliance.  Now, by that, i don't mean that D/s or M/s relationships should be "throw-away" during the rough times, but it's nice to know the standards don't drop to where there is no challenge going forward.



This is pretty much how I see it too. A Master who *needs* a slave so badly that he will let his core be stepped on is going to lose the respect of the slave.

There's no leverage left, and the slave comes to feel it's just a game for him. Doesn't mean there cannot be affection-just that when it comes down to it,"my way of the highway" has precedence over the mushy stuff.



MasterCurios -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 11:29:45 AM)

i  agree with you here,while love does enter into the D/s///M/s  24/7 R/T..the D/M  has to remain objective and stay in control of the slave no matter what happensunless unconscience befalls us than beware=lol==little humor there....



Caretakr -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 12:15:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCurios

i  agree with you here,while love does enter into the D/s///M/s  24/7 R/T..the D/M  has to remain objective and stay in control of the slave no matter what happensunless unconscience befalls us than beware=lol==little humor there....


Nodding, and this is done out of a sense of valuation and affection for the bottom. If you stopped, they would think you no longer had that for them.



agirl -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 12:22:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr


This is pretty much how I see it too. A Master who *needs* a slave so badly that he will let his core be stepped on is going to lose the respect of the slave.

There's no leverage left, and the slave comes to feel it's just a game for him. Doesn't mean there cannot be affection-just that when it comes down to it,"my way of the highway" has precedence over the mushy stuff.


 This is where I always have an enormous problem.......... I haven't managed to arrive at a suitable notion of *love* that can satisfy me at all.

*Needing* is just not in the same catagory as love ( despite not having defined *love*)......for me.....needing is parasitic.

agirl











Caretakr -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 12:27:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr


This is pretty much how I see it too. A Master who *needs* a slave so badly that he will let his core be stepped on is going to lose the respect of the slave.

There's no leverage left, and the slave comes to feel it's just a game for him. Doesn't mean there cannot be affection-just that when it comes down to it,"my way of the highway" has precedence over the mushy stuff.


 This is where I always have an enormous problem.......... I haven't managed to arrive at a suitable notion of *love* that can satisfy me at all.

*Needing* is just not in the same catagory as love ( despite not having defined *love*)......for me.....needing is parasitic.

agirl











Love, by itself, is parasitic. It's all about how someone makes you feel about yourself. And if they stopped making you "feel" that way-it would stop.

"Need"  is an expression of fullment, waiting to be realized.

And exactly how parastic it is, depends on the balance you return in giving back what you take. There is no need for guilt if the symbiosis returns to itself smoothly.



agirl -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 12:56:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr


This is pretty much how I see it too. A Master who *needs* a slave so badly that he will let his core be stepped on is going to lose the respect of the slave.

There's no leverage left, and the slave comes to feel it's just a game for him. Doesn't mean there cannot be affection-just that when it comes down to it,"my way of the highway" has precedence over the mushy stuff.


 This is where I always have an enormous problem.......... I haven't managed to arrive at a suitable notion of *love* that can satisfy me at all.

*Needing* is just not in the same catagory as love ( despite not having defined *love*)......for me.....needing is parasitic.

agirl











Love, by itself, is parasitic. It's all about how someone makes you feel about yourself. And if they stopped making you "feel" that way-it would stop.

"Need"  is an expression of fullment, waiting to be realized.

And exactly how parastic it is, depends on the balance you return in giving back what you take. There is no need for guilt if the symbiosis returns to itself smoothly.


Hello Caretakr,

Could you explain a little further why you think* love, by itself*, is parasitic?

I'm just rolling these thoughts around and am not trying to go anywhere with them, it is interesting to look at other's ideas and their *take* on these things.

agirl



Caretakr -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 1:18:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr


This is pretty much how I see it too. A Master who *needs* a slave so badly that he will let his core be stepped on is going to lose the respect of the slave.

There's no leverage left, and the slave comes to feel it's just a game for him. Doesn't mean there cannot be affection-just that when it comes down to it,"my way of the highway" has precedence over the mushy stuff.


 This is where I always have an enormous problem.......... I haven't managed to arrive at a suitable notion of *love* that can satisfy me at all.

*Needing* is just not in the same catagory as love ( despite not having defined *love*)......for me.....needing is parasitic.

agirl











Love, by itself, is parasitic. It's all about how someone makes you feel about yourself. And if they stopped making you "feel" that way-it would stop.

"Need"  is an expression of fullment, waiting to be realized.

And exactly how parastic it is, depends on the balance you return in giving back what you take. There is no need for guilt if the symbiosis returns to itself smoothly.


Hello Caretakr,

Could you explain a little further why you think* love, by itself*, is parasitic?

I'm just rolling these thoughts around and am not trying to go anywhere with them, it is interesting to look at other's ideas and their *take* on these things.

agirl



Let me put it this way. Many people are in love with love. And it's pretty hormonal, when you get right down to it. Now I realize that it arises from a chemical soup in the body, triggered by an attraction.  I liken this to an addiction.

I prefer the more spiritual connection, sometimes reffered to as "Agape".

ie- Unconditional love. A love that stems from the ability of the initiate to see the divine spark in all life.

A mutual reverence and awe of the divine, within and without. You see,"love" born of lust is transitory.

Thusly, it is parasitic...And will fade, when lust declines through familiarity. This is why I often speak of the value of bonding afforded by mutual dreams and visions.

When I look at M/s, I am seeking a partner who can dance with me through life-taking joy and satisfaction through the subtle interplay we have with each other-and with our connection to all that is, and will be. Love is taking the joy in each moment, one step at a time. And in leaving footprints behind us that may be of benefit to others, in thier dances.[;)]



CelticPrince -> RE: The effect of love on the D/s dynamic (7/7/2006 1:38:18 PM)

Caretakr,

But what of the non slave submissive/ Dominant relationship?

CP



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