RE: What good is morality anyway?

RE: What good is morality anyway? (Full Version)

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njlauren -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/15/2014 7:02:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM I recall the conceited remarks made by GotSteel about how atheists know more about Christianity than Christians. Spoken sarcastically, yes, you have excellent teachers. People like DaddySatyr to inform you about what Catholicism is all about and how it works. Add that to how you cherry pick your data. A lot of atheists do know more about Christianity then Christians do, a lot of Catholics know very little about the history of the church, how it came about, what Nicae meant, where the trinity came from and so forth. Many Christians believe the NT was written by known authors and was apostolic, that it somehow went from the hand of God to man like the 10c's, and none of that is true. You have a lot of Christians who think the KJV represents the 'real' bible as God intended it, including being written in Elizabethen English.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/15/2014 7:41:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: njlauren quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM I recall the conceited remarks made by GotSteel about how atheists know more about Christianity than Christians. Spoken sarcastically, yes, you have excellent teachers. People like DaddySatyr to inform you about what Catholicism is all about and how it works. Add that to how you cherry pick your data. A lot of atheists do know more about Christianity then Christians do, a lot of Catholics know very little about the history of the church, ... Catholics make a distinction between the flock and the clergy. Gauging what the flock knows is not significant and since Catholicism is orthodox it doesn't even regard what its clergy thinks as relevant. You have to be high up in the Church in order for your opinion to even remotely matter. It is like, you don't like the new mass? Tough. What have you been thinking? You have been thinking that with scandal, the worst kind, and political pressure the Church is going to capitulate like a bunch of crying babies made in your image. When you are facing the Church you are facing the Roman Empire squared. I have news for you. You have been living in dream land.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/15/2014 8:11:56 PM)
Has Christianity been in the planning stages for an ideological offensive? If so, how long have they been planning it? Has the Christian community been wronged in any way? Is there any reason for them to feel hurt?

GotSteel -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 5:14:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: njlauren quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM I recall the conceited remarks made by GotSteel about how atheists know more about Christianity than Christians. Spoken sarcastically, yes, you have excellent teachers. People like DaddySatyr to inform you about what Catholicism is all about and how it works. Add that to how you cherry pick your data. A lot of atheists do know more about Christianity then Christians do, a lot of Catholics know very little about the history of the church, how it came about, what Nicae meant, where the trinity came from and so forth. Many Christians believe the NT was written by known authors and was apostolic, that it somehow went from the hand of God to man like the 10c's, and none of that is true. All the data I've seen shows that atheists know more about christianity than christians.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 11:45:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel All the data I've seen shows that atheists know more about christianity than christians. It is like trying to make sense of a document by not reading it, but instead looking at statistics like word frequency. There might be something you missed.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 12:37:50 PM)
The amount that a typical Christian needs to know as facts are concerned is not especially large. Most of the knowledge falls in the category of wisdom which is difficult/impossible to quantify. It is not prosaic. I could find people at a university who would understand what I'm talking about. Maybe it won't be in the science and engineering building grant you. Apart from the superstars of atheism are there any educated atheists or are they all this dumb?

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 12:44:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM Apart from the superstars of atheism are there any educated atheists or are they all this dumb? Is it dumb or imbalanced?

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 12:48:45 PM)
Dumb is somewhat normal. So it seems like it is more imbalanced. It appears that atheists can relate to prosaic knowledge, but cannot relate to wisdom. How do I test this theory? Since GotSteel is into Buddhism perhaps I could test his understanding of Buddhism to see if there is something off there as well.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 12:57:23 PM)
I suppose it could turn out that GotSteel has a capacity, but he has an agenda and so he is purposefully ignorant and it could be both. A deficit in capacity in addition to a motivation may have been enough to push him over to the edge in the direction of atheism.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 12:59:51 PM)
MRI studies on atheists suggest that atheists don't get it which suggests that they have an intellectual deficit.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 1:05:41 PM)
I do not know as much about Buddhism as I do Christianity so I'm not sure how I could realistically test his understanding of Buddhism. The problem with getting another Buddhist atheist to give a talk on Buddhism is their understanding could be just as deficient. I need someone who has a full-bodied understanding and appreciation for Buddhism where it is clear they understand at some level its wisdom teachings.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 1:18:54 PM)
I need a volunteer. I need someone who was raised a Buddhist instead of a convert to Buddhism to discuss the topic.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 3:22:11 PM)
The statement below from GotSteel is indicative that there is a problem with his ability to comprehend a basic concept of religion, namely a wisdom teaching. Not being able to grasp this is serious because it is going to skew that persons understanding of morality. Moral teachings are wisdom teachings. A wisdom teaching is not data. quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel All the data I've seen shows that atheists know more about christianity than christians.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 7:43:22 PM)
I was looking over what I could find on Buddhism. Do try to correct my analysis. My impression is that Buddhism is chiefly interested if not entirely interested in states of mind and not physical reality which naturally influences its notion of morality. Morality is indirect, thus vague, since there is no direct connection between our physical reality and our moral obligations. This is obviously part of its allure. It can be used as license. In Buddhism the need to be moral appears to be regarded as a source of suffering, a necessary evil, and when Nirvana is reached there is no longer a need to be moral because the need to be moral has been transcended.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 8:00:25 PM)
In Christianity you never transcend the need to be moral and morality is good. Recall that we believe in the existence of fallen angels. Where did they come from? Heaven. Why did they fall? They fell because they were judged by God. They were immoral angels that broke the law. Morality is not a source of suffering and is not evil. Evil is the source of suffering. In Buddhism apparently yesterday is the source of suffering. If I am right, in Nirvana there is no yesterday since yesterday was transcended. With no yesterday there is no tomorrow only today.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 8:27:51 PM)
Buddhism does not appear to be compatible with Christianity; hence, it is not a universal substrate.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 8:35:47 PM)
Buddhism combats suffering whereas Christianity combats evil. So in a sense from a Christian point of view Buddhism treats the symptom instead of the cause.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 8:47:14 PM)
My impression is no super intelligence is needed to grasp Buddhism. But what about koans? Physicists without the help of God discovered quantum mechanics.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 8:51:14 PM)
That is why there is no God in Buddhism.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (4/16/2014 8:59:57 PM)
It seems clear that in Buddhism you are not called to anything you do not understand. Faith is not needed.

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