RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (Full Version)

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MistressDarkArt -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 6:45:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I just want to smoke it to get high period.
Or in the case of CBD rich in hash to get stoned.



Then I would recommend cannabis products rich in THC, not CBD. No decent mental action w/CBD, so save your money there, amigo.



MistressDarkArt -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 6:51:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

When you push it to be a medicine to get it legalized where does it end up?
Pharma maffia, no thanks.



True, MrB, we agree on that point.

And therein lies a two-headed serpent: while Big Pharma can provide necessary funding for research and standardization, they are only willing to do so to heftily reap profits, not for the good of mankind. F*ckers! [>:]



MrBukani -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 7:12:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDarkArt


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I just want to smoke it to get high period.
Or in the case of CBD rich in hash to get stoned.



Then I would recommend cannabis products rich in THC, not CBD. No decent mental action w/CBD, so save your money there, amigo.


It's like alcohol you get fuzzy warm on wine and brawling brutal on beer still you get drunk. You bet I trip through rainbows on a good hash cake loaded with CBD.
Wanna bet?[:D]
You can argue THC is more psychoactive but saying CBD doesn't have mental effects is not true at all.
Hell I floated on it and it was for sure in my head hahahaha.



MistressDarkArt -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 7:43:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani


It's like alcohol you get fuzzy warm on wine and brawling brutal on beer still you get drunk. You bet I trip through rainbows on a good hash cake loaded with CBD.
Wanna bet?[:D]
You can argue THC is more psychoactive but saying CBD doesn't have mental effects is not true at all.
Hell I floated on it and it was for sure in my head hahahaha.


Perhaps you enjoyed a 50/50, 70/30, 80/20 etc. combination of something (along with your alcohol!). Other than a monitored, specialized strain bred specifically to deliver CBD like Charlotte's Web (only 1% THC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte's_Web_(cannabis) most of what's available through collectives or on the street is some type of hybrid mash-up, especially in the case of hash. Hash is made from all the leftovers from trimming, and not always available in single-strain batches. They're usually labeled 'Indica-Dominant' or 'Sativa Dominant' or 'CBD Dominant' but there is no standardization, so unless you had your hash lab-analyzed, there'd be no way to tell if what you THINK you're getting is actually what you GOT. Again, this is where legalization and Big Pharma could really help if they wanted to. Fat fecking chance.

CBD out, dude! It's good for you!



LanceHughes -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 7:47:53 PM)

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LanceHughes -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 7:58:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech
<snipped>
The only real world data I know of on liberalization of drug laws would be Holland and their liberal policies.
<snipped>
Hello from Colorado!  Jan. 1, 2014 is the date that recreational marijuana was first LEGALLY sold in Colorado.  Stay tuned for info on use, effects, tax dollars raised, etc.



edited to get those quote-y thingies correct



DarkSteven -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 8:03:22 PM)

Also, Washington state decriminalized marijuana for recreational use.

Unfortunately, the legislators are trying to balance the fact they have no choice but to accept its legalization, with a perceived hysteria about it. So they created draconian laws to "regulate" it.

HB 1284 legalized medical marijuana

ONLY to be bought at dispensaries, that employed people with a clean criminal record that had at least two years of residency in Colorado. At least 70% of the product sold could only be obtained from a grow owned by that dispensary and the other 30% from grows owned by other dispensaries. The grows needed to be in special areas zoned both agricultural and industrial. (The bill did create a loophole for growers with 36 or fewer plants, who could prove that they earned no profit.) Grows and dispensaries needed to be 1000 feet from schools. For some weird reason, a grow's plants needed to be split between plants in vegetative and plants in flower 50-50, even though the most efficient grows have plants in veg two weeks and flower two months.

The year that 1284 went into effect, mmj sales dropped by 80%. If we assume that marijuana consumption remained the same, then the laws forced 80% of mj trade right back to criminal enterprises.

In other words, I don't trust the legislators to legalize it unhampered by farcical regulations.




MistressDarkArt -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 8:10:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

The year that 1284 went into effect, mmj sales dropped by 80%. If we assume that marijuana consumption remained the same, then the laws forced 80% of mj trade right back to criminal enterprises.



Or the consumers of said marijuana made a conscious decision to grow it themselves, legal or not, which is what I hope happened. If illegal, I guess that would qualify them as criminals. [8D]





LorraineCA -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 8:46:05 PM)

There is still a debate going on:

Is Marijuana a "Gateway" or "Stepping Stone" Drug?



MistressDarkArt -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 8:56:22 PM)

^^^If someone considers marijuana a gateway drug, I'd respond that the same could be said of alcohol, tobacco and caffeine, which are legal and readily available to all folks of age.

I love this quote from a former US Surgeon General in your link above:
quote:

Joycelyn Elders, MD, former US Surgeon General, stated in a Dec. 14, 2002 editorial published in The Globe and Mail:
"Much of their [US drug-policy leaders] rhetoric about marijuana being a 'gateway drug' is simply wrong. After decades of looking, scientists still have no evidence that marijuana causes people to use harder drugs.

If there is any true 'gateway drug,' it's tobacco."

Dec. 14, 2002 - Joycelyn Elders, MD


Users are gonna use, some for good, some for bad. Most are going to be happy staying with marijuana (or substituting marijuana for more harmful substances), a few will keep upping the ante into addictive substances until they bottom out or die.




MrBukani -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 9:20:23 PM)

Jah rastafariman it sure iz da gateway to paradais man an da steppin stoner to philosophy, allrigh bigup.



MistressDarkArt -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 9:40:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Jah rastafariman it sure iz da gateway to paradais man an da steppin stoner to philosophy, allrigh bigup.


Has someone been enjoying their medicine? [8D]




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 9:44:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

My take is that to many people, and most politicians, "perception" IS reality.

For your perusal for the classic perception of marijuana, I give you a link to the film "Reefer Madness" from 1938.

https://archive.org/details/reefer_madness1938

I consider this film a good example of the scare tactics used to convince the population to accept criminalization of activities that had been legal for decades when the medical community was still debating the merits of many of the substances that were being banned.

Bit of historical trivia: I still have my great grandfather's Marijuana Grower's License from World War II. Since the stems were used for rope and the leaves discarded; I wonder why people were surprised someone found a use for the leaves.

Link to "Hemp for Victory"
https://archive.org/details/Hemp_for_victory_1942_FIXED

Now for the question for debate:

Would the country be better or worse off if Marijuana was removed from the banned drug lists and treated like tobacco and alcohol (have hellacious excise tax on it and sale restricted by location and age of purchasers).



Marijuana makes people stooooopit for days. Alcohol....till noon.

Alcohol enters your fats and is soluable by water. Marijuana enters your fats and is not....days vs. hours.

Alcohol makes you an asshole. Marijuana makes you want donuts.

Alcohol makes you drive like a maniac, marijuana makes it nearly impossible to find your keys.

Alcohol makes you want to fuck. Marijuana makes you capable of fucking. (Or at least both of you thought it was good).

Alcohol makes you say incredibly stupid things you'll regret later. Marijuana makes you incapable of saying anything intelligent, most of which, if you were around other people smoking marijuana, will never remember you saying anything you'll regret because they probably won't even remember you were there.

You decide.






MercTech -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 9:46:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LorraineCA

There is still a debate going on:

Is Marijuana a "Gateway" or "Stepping Stone" Drug?


I think that hanging out with pushers is more of a gateway to harder drugs than marijuana itself.




MrBukani -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 10:12:03 PM)

Alcohol makes you tell the truth
Cannabis will make you think of the more detailed marvels of life.

Guess lookie no nookie never used drugs the right way.[:D]
Aha now I get the name.



BecomingV -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 10:45:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Now some companies are trying to deny use of physician prescribed medication as part of a "drug free workplace". This is a rights issue that has yet to be resolved.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/25/us/25drugs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I've had difficulty with this attitude as I have a prescription for Tramadol to be taken as needed for osteo arthritis pain. Tramadol is a prescription pain medication that is the next step above things like Aspirin, Tylenol, Motrin, or Aleve. But, Tramodol is not an analgesic but an opiod-agonizer (it stimulates serotonin and endorphin production like opium but without producing a high or being addictive). Some people see that and go obtusely resistant to legitimate uses for it.
I was once required to sign an affidavit stating that I swore not to take my Tramadol while I was working at a TVA site.





ETA - Bold ^^^ is mine.

First, I think that while many things can become physically addicting, most of the problems we see involve the more difficult to change, mental addictions. Some personalities really are more vulnerable to addictions of all sorts.

Second, your example involves a drug that while legal and prescribed, specifically affects a brain chemical. That's important! Not feeling high from it is a subjective experience. Not feeling anything may be good or bad. Blood pressure is the silent killer. So, that prescribed drug you use, it comes with a long list of effects, warnings and dangers, which for marketing reasons, are called, get this... "side" effects!

So, if I were sitting on a board to determine workplace safety in regard to competence, I would not care whether the person ingested something legal or illegal, prescribed, or over the counter. If it affects the brain or reflexes or some other function, then THAT is what would deserve my focus.

OP - I'm pro-legalization. I never saw any until I was 18. My parents must have seen that film, "Reefer Madness." I was afraid of the criminal pot smokers and would avoid contact. Yeah, I outgrew that. LOL





LookieNoNookie -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/10/2014 11:03:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Alcohol makes you tell the truth
Cannabis will make you think of the more detailed marvels of life.

Guess lookie no nookie never used drugs the right way.[:D]
Aha now I get the name.



Hey...I resemble that remark.



RottenJohnny -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/11/2014 12:17:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I have often made the argument that if we went to a place with really strict gun laws (say NYC since it's a place with which I'm familiar) and eliminated most of those gun laws so that law -abiding citizens could own and carry guns that there would be a six-twelve month spike in the murder rate; that some people would "solve grudges", drug wars would escalate, etc. and then, the murder rate would drop back down.

The people that argued against that viewpoint have said: "Those deaths are acceptable to you?"

So, I ask: How many extra lives lost to addiction (be it to death or just "ruined") is an acceptable number until we "wise up"?

Just some food for thought.

First of all, I'm talking about marijuana, not heroin or coke. I don't support the legalization of those types of drugs for recreational use.

I think you'll be hard pressed to find many instances of deaths caused by marijuana although I'm sure there are some. But considering I'm a believer that living in a free society is never going to be risk free, I'm willing to accept whatever number of deaths are created by such circumstances. If that makes me a grim reaper then so be it. But that's also why I'd like to see reasonable controls put in place before we allow the masses to fully access it. Hopefully to limit incidents of damage.



RottenJohnny -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/11/2014 12:23:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I dread to see a slow reply, how many pages would it take?

First off CBD is psychoactive bullshit me not.
Second I'm getting sick of the medical argument[:'(]
Yeah it helps yadayadayada... I just want to smoke it to get high period.
Or in the case of CBD rich in hash to get stoned.
When you push it to be a medicine to get it legalized where does it end up?
Pharma maffia, no thanks.
Legalize recreational use and if it helps with fighting cancer great.
But don't lie to get high.
CBD is psychoactive period.


Okay. You think using the "medical use" argument is bullshit. Fair enough. I get it. But it's not a lie. And it's not subterfuge to support medical use. If you're interested in checking it out, look up a strain of marijuana called "Charlotte's Web".




MercTech -> RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? (3/11/2014 12:30:55 AM)

On a lighter note, some classic Cheech & Chong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1sPmbj3t6E



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