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litleone8620 -> Wiring (7/7/2006 3:02:55 PM)
I've been wondering if i should post this question here or not, and i obviously decided to go for it. I was watching a show the other day about women in abusive relationships. This one woman in particular stuck out. She was telling the story of how her boyfriend had come up with a point system (the points were bad). She had to do certain things during the day, and if she didn't do it, she would get a certain amount of points. Then she would have to later do things to take the points off, like give him a massage, or cook him dinner; things like that. While i was watching that, i was thinking, what an interesting thought; that maybe i would enjoy participating in something like that. It just seemed like a behavior modification technique to me. Then as i recognize the audience reaction as one of disgust, i start thinking: what is different about me that i think something like that is ok. I went through the whole questioning my decision to make sure that this was what i really wanted and all that. But this isn't about my questioning myself, which i'm not. I guess my question is: What is different in my/our wiring that using crops, whips, floggers etc on someone, or having those things used on you is ok? Or even taking the control of someone, or giving someone control. While the rest of the world looks at it as abuse?

zumala -> RE: Wiring (7/7/2006 3:08:25 PM)
I think it's an issue of perspective, mainly. If you had a SO that supposedly loved you, but then treated you like a child (i.e. list of things to do and punishment if you don't clean your room), you might not like it. However, if you went into a D/s relationship and WANTED someone to do something like that, it'd be okay. Most people don't like it when someone just up and tells them what to do or else. To come up with a different example... Say a 'vanilla' SO slaps his girlfriend in the face when she's displeased him. That would be abusive, yes? But if you are in an acknowledged D/s relationship and face slapping was agreed to as okay, then it wouldn't be as big of a deal. Although there are some who would see that as abusive anyway, I'm sure, and figure the woman had a screw or two loose for wanting to be hit. Of course, ymmv with my input, as I'm not a masochist that I know of. Sorry that I couldn't be of more help. zuma

missturbation -> RE: Wiring (7/7/2006 3:10:32 PM)
In my opinion the difference is your personal opinion on the activity. If you think it is abuse then dont do it, but if you look at it as just pleasing Master or an activity you wish to take part in then go ahead - go for it. If that makes sense?

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Wiring (7/7/2006 3:46:39 PM)
Most of society has been taught, as we have, that being controlled and/or hurt (not harmed) is not something that we should like. I mean, being hurt, well, hurts and that's bad (I don't agree). Also, being controlled and controlling is codependent behavior, which is also bad (I don't agree with this either).So, they have been conditioned to think all relationships that have either one or both of these are bad. What makes what you want and what the girl had different is that you are consenting...and, hopefully, you have picked a Dominant or Master who values you more that her boyfriend valued her. Master Fire

sublizzie -> RE: Wiring (7/7/2006 4:37:53 PM)
When I was leading a support group for women either in, leaving, or had been in abusive relationships part of the curriculum was to discuss "what is abuse?". When I got to that section I was always careful to tell the women to make sure that what they thought they saw in someone else's life was NOT consensual before they called the cops, because for some people this is how they wanted to live their lives. In one class I had one woman who understood exactly what I was talking about!

Focus50 -> RE: Wiring (7/7/2006 4:50:10 PM)
It's really quite simple.... Us lifestylers are a minority group; in a few words, we're "control freaks".... The vanilla majority tend to believe in equality (a common urban myth) so I'd naturally understand they'd be horrified at the behaviour of the participants on that show. It ain't abuse when A), it's mutually consensual and B), especially when it's mutually rewarding and enjoyable. What's different about you is that you're a fem/sub; which makes you far more interesting and attractive to me than any of the "disgusted" women in that audience.... I'm attracted to my own "species" - the difference is in the "wiring". [;)] Focus.

litleone8620 -> RE: Wiring (7/7/2006 4:54:02 PM)
I laughed at your post, and understood you fully. Do you really think we're our own species?

LokisBrat -> RE: Wiring (7/7/2006 5:36:32 PM)
This would definitely fall under "in the eyes of the beholder," or perception. Without a question what I might consider abusive, someone else might consider "play." As far as being our own "species," I can agree with this whole-heartedly. As the old saying goes "birds of the same feather flock together." We find our own kind, we always do. LOKI.

irishbynature -> RE: Wiring (7/7/2006 5:59:51 PM)
Interesting. Most point systems are used for Behavior Modification to "Change unwanted behaviors and replace them with more desirable ones" etc. I can see the correlation, however. Doms/Dommes do use various behavior modification techniques...but used to bring out a desired outcome or pleasure. Dunno. You do have a great question/insight there. Warmly, Irish

enigmabrat -> RE: Wiring (7/7/2006 6:03:47 PM)
one word is all that is needed here CONSENT in our lifestyle we would see that as ok because we are Doms and subs and the subs have consneted to have the power taken this lady was not a sub and did not consent and there for this would be seen as abusive

subacceptance -> RE: Wiring (7/7/2006 6:47:21 PM)
I am happy as to have been rewired. I still remember my early days on the road to submission, my Mistress was conditioning me to accpet pain with pleasure. And finally the time came when she asked; Do you prefer pain or pleasure, and I was hers for 2 years. So you can guess my answer.

Focus50 -> RE: Wiring (7/8/2006 3:56:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: litleone8620 I laughed at your post, and understood you fully. Do you really think we're our own species? Of course we are! Heteros seek out the opposite sex and gays seek their own kind; just as we do.... We complicate it a lot more by also combining with a hetero or gay flavour. Perhaps it's accurate to say we're a "sub-species" of the majority - but this Dom isn't going quite that far! lol Focus.

wandering4u -> RE: Wiring (7/8/2006 4:18:44 AM)
Heyirishbynature - positive overcorrection works - person does positive behavior to avoid the chance of doing the negative. Can be a very good training technique. Behavior modification is a very powerful tool!

KennelDeSade2 -> RE: Wiring (7/8/2006 4:33:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation In my opinion the difference is your personal opinion on the activity. If you think it is abuse then dont do it, but if you look at it as just pleasing Master or an activity you wish to take part in then go ahead - go for it. If that makes sense? I did a scene once. Just imagine five hours of vile and wretched acts that would get you jailed in several Southern States and a stern finger shaking in Los Angeles, and when we where done, we went out to eat. So, sitting around the table talking over how things went, I had a piphlet. Had we shot video of the whole scene, then replaced the sound track, you could prove beyond any question that the woman involved had been brutalized, ravaged, her will broken, personality shattered, never to be a whole person again in this lifetime. Or, left the soundtrack as it happened, and show her brutalized, ravaged, and ending a stronger and more confident person, who's live was on an upward swing. It is not the actions that truly matter. It is WHY and how, that make the difference. So while I know I'm not wired like everybody else, I'm not very bothered by that. Because I just find one who is wired the same way, with the same power requirements, and studio audience be damned. I'm not living my life for them, but, for myself and the one who happens to find themselves quite comfy, in what the audience might think of as a living hell. If we wanted suffering and torture beyond our ability to withstand, I think that twenty years of vanilla might just do it.

IronBear -> RE: Wiring (7/8/2006 5:07:44 AM)
Perhaps what we consider normalin a consensual relationship may be considered as abuse by the majority (well I suspect many more would become involved if they wearn't so scared of being found out by their straight laced bretheren) as abuse, However their uninteresting relationship with the highlight being the 10 minutes of sterile missionary possition would be for me a dire and unnatural form of abuse.

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