Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/14/2014 6:30:55 PM)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/dr-danielle-martin-gives-washington-a-lesson-on-canadian-health-care-1.2570872

As the debate about Obamacare rages on in the United States, a Toronto doctor calmly defended her country’s health-care system before a partisan U.S. Senate committee in Washington this week and explained that the single-payer model is not to blame for wait times — and that Prime Minister Stephen Harper is not a socialist.

Dr. Danielle Martin, a family physician who is also vice-president of medical affairs and health system solutions at Women’s College Hospital, was the Canadian voice on an international panel at a committee studying what the U.S. can learn from other countries
“I do not presume to claim today that the Canadian system is perfect or that we do not face significant challenges,” Martin told the committee on Tuesday. “The evidence is clear that those challenges do not stem from the single-payer nature of our system. Quite the contrary.”

Martin outlined the benefits of Canada’s health-care structure and contrasted it with the American one, while noting the strong public support in Canada for the idea that access to care shouldn’t depend on one's ability to pay.
Danielle-Martin

Dr. Danielle Martin, a Toronto doctor, testifies at a U.S. Senate committee in Washington on Tuesday. The committee was studying health-care systems in other countries.

“We do not have uninsured residents. We do not have different qualities of insurance depending on a person’s employment. We do not have an industry working to try to carve out different niches of the risk pool. This is a very important accomplishment and as we watch the debate unfold as to how to address the challenges you face, we are reminded daily of its significance,” said Martin.

Martin, who also holds a degree in public policy and is an assistant professor at the University of Toronto, said a lot of work is being done on reducing wait times in Canada. Moving away from a single-payer system and introducing more private health care is not a solution and would likely exacerbate wait times in the public system by drawing health-care resources away from it, she told the senators.
Conflicting views on Canada

Sitting next to Martin was another Canadian, Sally Pipes, who is now an American citizen and leads a think-tank in San Francisco that advocates for the free market. Pipes gave a decidedly different view of Canada’s health-care system.

“If you’re looking for lessons from health-care systems abroad, Canada shows us exactly what not to do,” she told the senators, citing wait times and government control as major problems. “I think this is no way for us to run a health-care system, a single-payer system.”

She cited former Newfoundland and Labrador premier Danny Williams as an example of one of the thousands of Canadians who have paid for care in the United States. He underwent a heart valve surgery in the U.S. in 2010.

Pipes also said her mother died of colon cancer because she had to wait too long for a colonoscopy.

Martin faced some tough questions about Canada’s system from Republican Senator Richard Burr, who opposes the Affordable Care Act, more popularly known as Obamacare, that overhauled the American system.

“On average, how many Canadian patients on a waiting list die each year, do you know?” he pressed her.

“I don’t sir, but I know there are 45,000 in America who die waiting because they don’t have insurance at all,” Martin shot back.

What about Williams going to Florida for surgery, he asked her, what does that signify? Martin noted that the doctors who pioneered the surgery he had done actually work in Toronto.

“Sometimes people have a perception, and I believe this is fuelled in part by media discourse, that going where you pay more for something that that necessarily makes it better. But that’s not borne out by the evidence on outcomes from that cardiac surgery or any other,” she responded.

Burr clearly was not a fan of Canada’s system, unlike Senator Bernard Sanders, an independent, who posted Martin’s testimony on YouTube. He playfully suggested that despite the government in power in Canada, there are no efforts to follow America’s example on health care.
Hearing included some political theatre

“Is your prime minister a socialist?” Sanders asked Martin.

“No sir, our prime minister is quite conservative.”

“So obviously as a conservative he wants to implement the American health-care system that the Canadians are very aware of, I gather that is the first thing he did when he took power is that right?”

“Not exactly.”

“Why not?”

“Support for single-payer Medicare in Canada goes across all political stripes,” Martin explained.

Reflecting on her appearance at the committee in an interview on Thursday, Martin said she was honoured to be asked to testify. She said some of the panellists were definitely on the defensive and that she was not there to be an apologist for Canada’s system.

“I tried very hard to be resolute in not painting the Canadian system as being without challenges or without problems, but still maintaining that I think there are some pretty significant learnings about how health care can be better administered that Canada has to offer — if the American administration were really truly interested in learning from it,” she said.

Canada also learns from the U.S., she said, and there shouldn’t necessarily be a debate about which system is better. Canada is “not a threat” to the American system, Martin said.

Though the committee meeting was partisan at times, she said it is a positive sign that the U.S. is looking at international examples.

‘It’s a good thing that they did that, even if it was in part a bit of political theatre.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Im glad to see DC are not just ignoring the realities of other systems. However much the low information voter doesnt believe it.





RottenJohnny -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/14/2014 10:06:33 PM)

FR

An engineer I know, who travels extensively, told me of a situation he had in Britain when his wife developed a UTI. After contacting several doctor's offices, the soonest he could get an appointment was three weeks. He finally called one office and after getting frustrated with the apparent wait-time issue, he told them he would pay cash. At that point, the nurse or receptionist he was talking to said they'd be happy to see his wife right away.

I'm not attempting to make any comments about the British health system vs. American but if I'm going to wind up getting better service using cash instead of some clunky insurance system, I'd much rather avoid the system and just use cash.




Lucylastic -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/14/2014 10:23:56 PM)

I lived in the UK for 26 years, and I never saw cash change hands, Ive also not had to wait 3 weeks to see a doc. BUT Ive been away from the UK for almost as long as I lived there, sooooo it could have changed...




eulero83 -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/15/2014 3:50:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

FR

An engineer I know, who travels extensively, told me of a situation he had in Britain when his wife developed a UTI. After contacting several doctor's offices, the soonest he could get an appointment was three weeks. He finally called one office and after getting frustrated with the apparent wait-time issue, he told them he would pay cash. At that point, the nurse or receptionist he was talking to said they'd be happy to see his wife right away.

I'm not attempting to make any comments about the British health system vs. American but if I'm going to wind up getting better service using cash instead of some clunky insurance system, I'd much rather avoid the system and just use cash.


I'm not a doctor but for what I know an UTI is something a generic doctor treats and there is no need for a specialist, I don't know how it works in britain, but here in italy when my ex girlfriend had one and developped fever, she just phoned the generic doctor covering the sunday shift for emergencies and he came at her home. He visites her and took a test of urines to choose the right antibioic then prescribed it to her. In one afternoon she had her treatment. If the doctor thought the situation was so serious to need an urologist that day she would had. If she just phoned an urologist asking for a specialistic visit than the waiting time would be around one month or pay for a private one, but that's not the procedure when you feel sick.




Zonie63 -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/15/2014 6:34:24 AM)

I've had experience with long waits to get appointments with specialists here in the U.S., so the notion that "patients wait longer" in other countries never really rang true for me, at least based on my own experience.

I don't really trust either side in this whole healthcare debate. I don't understand why liberals support Obamacare, since it deals mainly with the symptoms of the problem and not the root cause. It just gives a blank check to the medical/insurance/pharmaceutical industries and tells them "Just as long as you treat everybody, we'll pay whatever you say." For the same reason, I don't understand why conservatives oppose Obamacare, since it involves pumping all this taxpayer money into private sector industries, which conservatives normally tout as a "good thing." It's definitely not the same thing as "socialism."

I also don't believe those who say they want a healthcare system based on the principles of free-market economics. If they truly believe in those principles, let them prove it first by making serious proposals in that direction, which would mean (among other things) deregulation, open competition, and most definitely an end to the War on Drugs. No more controlled substances or prescriptions to hassle with; everything would be legal and available over the counter. Let people make medications in their garage and sell them on the street, just to give the pharmaceutical companies some open competition and put pressure on to lower prices.




DomKen -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/15/2014 7:01:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

FR

An engineer I know, who travels extensively, told me of a situation he had in Britain when his wife developed a UTI. After contacting several doctor's offices, the soonest he could get an appointment was three weeks. He finally called one office and after getting frustrated with the apparent wait-time issue, he told them he would pay cash. At that point, the nurse or receptionist he was talking to said they'd be happy to see his wife right away.

I'm not attempting to make any comments about the British health system vs. American but if I'm going to wind up getting better service using cash instead of some clunky insurance system, I'd much rather avoid the system and just use cash.

Nonsense. I've visited Britain several times. I sprained my ankle while hiking and went to the hospital there was no wait and there was no charge. When my friend, a British citizen, developed sinusitis during a visit she went to a nurse practitioner and got  a script for antibiotics after perhaps a n hour wait and no charge.




dcnovice -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/15/2014 7:09:22 AM)

quote:

I'm not attempting to make any comments about the British health system vs. American but if I'm going to wind up getting better service using cash instead of some clunky insurance system, I'd much rather avoid the system and just use cash.

The neurosurgery I needed for my neck last spring came to $140,000. That's a little more cash than I keep on hand.




mnottertail -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/15/2014 7:10:38 AM)

There is a great deal of let them eat cake in our society.




DomKen -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/15/2014 7:11:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I'm not attempting to make any comments about the British health system vs. American but if I'm going to wind up getting better service using cash instead of some clunky insurance system, I'd much rather avoid the system and just use cash.

The neurosurgery I needed for my neck last spring came to $140,000. That's a little more cash than I keep on hand.


You do not want to know what my annual dialysis bill adds up to. It is frightening.




MrRodgers -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/15/2014 7:36:50 AM)

Look, in America it is quite simple. It is not about health care, it's...about money. The outlandish hospital charges, the repub emphasis on tort reform. The huge deductibles, the heretofore no previous condition and life time (death time) caps, adding in now fast approaching 1 million medical bankruptcies per year...many of which...ARE insured anyway.

I have an idea. Why don't we have free market defense ? Why don't we pay individual or employer backed defense insurance ? Those aircraft carriers aren't free, we all oh, oh careful now...c o l l e c t i v e l y pay for defense. And why do we have defense ? To defend our country against invasion or...its health maybe ?

So how is it that to collectively pay for our direct health, we MUST have a so-called free market which isn't a free market at all ? It is a rigged, rent-seeking, profiteering, bastardized market...of unadulterated greed. (even defense is greed) The cash-richest 'industry' in the world and the US, is...the insurance business. Why am I not surprised ?

We see 'American' 'values' A single payer, govt. run insurance program for banks, crops and overseas 'private' [sic] investors. Get a grip people...America is all about money, profits and greed.




eulero83 -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/15/2014 1:28:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I don't really trust either side in this whole healthcare debate. I don't understand why liberals support Obamacare, since it deals mainly with the symptoms of the problem and not the root cause. It just gives a blank check to the medical/insurance/pharmaceutical industries and tells them "Just as long as you treat everybody, we'll pay whatever you say."


maybe lobbying?

For what I understood in the US a real reform can just start from one state and if it works then others will follow, an area of the size of a county can support it's whole healthcare.




RottenJohnny -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/15/2014 1:42:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Nonsense. I've visited Britain several times. I sprained my ankle while hiking and went to the hospital there was no wait and there was no charge. When my friend, a British citizen, developed sinusitis during a visit she went to a nurse practitioner and got  a script for antibiotics after perhaps a n hour wait and no charge.

Good for you. But apparently it didn't go that well for him.




eulero83 -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/15/2014 2:47:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Nonsense. I've visited Britain several times. I sprained my ankle while hiking and went to the hospital there was no wait and there was no charge. When my friend, a British citizen, developed sinusitis during a visit she went to a nurse practitioner and got  a script for antibiotics after perhaps a n hour wait and no charge.

Good for you. But apparently it didn't go that well for him.


It would make perfectly sense to me if your friend looked for an urologist without a diagnosis instead that going first to a family doctor. It would make no sense to me waiting 3 weeks for family doctor visit. How does it work in the USA do you go directly to a specialist?




joether -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/15/2014 4:04:31 PM)

First off, the ACA does not tell the medical professionals how to run medical science. The basis of the law is the logistics engine of healthcare from a legal and business perspective. That's the simplest explanation of what the law actually does/handles. Which is why people laughed at conservatives when 'death panels' arise in arguments. The original document the President issued to Congress back in 2009 was much different from the final version of the bill that was voted on in 2010. That version had many similarities to Massachusetts healthcare law. Frankly, us 'Massholes' have better access to healthcare than the other 49 states, while costing the state less than snow removal each year.

From what I gather of the OP's document, is some idiot Republican wishing to berate anyone that threatens the party talking points on healthcare. Calling another country's PM an insult REALLY does not promote good relations (i.e. failure of wisdom). But then, most Republicans do not seem to understand that insulting people simply shows their lack of intelligence if not maturity (i.e. bash the President on a daily basis over petty things).




kdsub -> RE: Dr. Danielle Martin gives Washington a lesson on Canadian health care (3/15/2014 6:01:20 PM)

To me it is simple...There is a fact for all to see that cannot be refuted... The average life expectancy in Canada is close to 5 years longer than the US... so... something must be working right... long waits or not. Just me but I would rather live longer.

Butch




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