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ORIGINAL: subbibear
Leaving my personal situation aside, the issue of pushy vs assertive is, I think, a challenge for submissives who are looking for dominants. Tone certainly is important as frunandsins points out. I guess I see it as comparable to giving someone a menu in a fine dining establishment. The menu always comes with detailed information from the server so that the guest is able to make an informed decision about what items they want to enjoy that visit.

Anyone can spit out a list of hard limits, and that is an important thing to include, but nuance is required as well. What are the soft limits? What are the ways a sub could be lead safely up against those soft limits and helped to expand their horizons and grow?

Anyone can spill forth a list of fantasies or a history of their favorite scenes with past dominants, but what the dominant who you are seeking needs to know is what you enjoy and why you enjoy it. The dominant needs to know what about these behaviors make your mind trigger pleasure, how you understand them as acts of submission. So instead of laying out just a scene idea about being expected to edge yourself and then being told when to orgasm, a submissive needs to talk about what elements of submission they are getting out of it. Is it objectification? Obedience? Loss of autonomy? How is this action fulfilling the submissive's need to please the dominant?

Sure it is good to give them the menu, but the details about the menu items, how they work and why, that is what makes it assertive rather than pushy, I think. Once the dominant has all the facts in hand, and is armed with the details of how the submissive's brain is working, then the dominant is able to lead, control and dominate from a position of informed power. Giving up the knowledge of how you think and what drives your submission and sexuality is the first step in the power exchange- IMHO. It is a step of trust. In my little world, dominants do not take power, submissives give it away. Dominants are then left with the responsibility to use it judiciously in leading the couple or group or family or den towards growth and happiness.

Pushy would be just talking about all the things you want the dominant to do to you. And really, at that point, what you are looking for is a top more than a dominant, because you have not actually given up any power in the first place.

IMHO YMMV etc etc

First off, I would like to mention how refreshing it is to have a new person join us on this site who actually has a great thought process (you do get bonus points from Me because of your shirt BTW).

You made a pretty good distinction between the two. I don't necessarily agree with it all. I believe a good Dominant will invoke the submissive to want to give up their power and submissiveness (I have seen My wife do this time and time again). I mean are you really going to write to every Dominant on here to tell them what you like and what being a submissive means to you? I do not get that "troll" vibe from you like I do with quite a few of the newcomers.

Someone who is pushy, IMO, is those ones who come at a Dominant in a way that is abrasive, and if they don't like it they can fuck themselves. Someone who is assertive will do, as you say, tell the person whom they are interested in, this is what I like, this is what I will not try, and this is what I might try with the right person and here is why and what it does for me to serve You, the Dominant.

Very well articulated responses and well thought out thoughts you present. I do not think you will have much issue with finding what you want. Best of luck to you with your friend.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbibear
<snip>
He and I shared a concern that we might have an existing interpersonal dynamic that could interfere with establishing as new D/s dynamic but we both feel it is worth trying it out to see what happens....

quote:

So instead of laying out just a scene idea about being expected to edge yourself and then being told when to orgasm, a submissive needs to talk about what elements of submission they are getting out of it. Is it objectification? Obedience? Loss of autonomy? How is this action fulfilling the submissive's need to please the dominant?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

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ORIGINAL: subbibear
<snip>
He and I shared a concern that we might have an existing interpersonal dynamic that could interfere with establishing as new D/s dynamic but we both feel it is worth trying it out to see what happens....

Can you elaborate any further on what this "existing interpersonal dynamic" is which "could interfere" with you and your ex-lover (i.e., "vanilla playmate" long ago) reconnecting? If he is already involved with somebody else and they don't have an open arrangement, this is not cool. You would be inserting yourself into a pre-existing dynamic. This has nothing to do with being a pushy sub -- It is being pushy, in effect, throwing yourself at someone, which smacks of desperation. Sorry to rain on your parade, if that indeed is the case.

This might not be relevant to your situation, but did the two of you part on good terms?

The fact that you have a history with this man can be either positive or negative, and you know him best. Bon chance.

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ORIGINAL: subbibear

I can elaborate. He and I met in 1983 and from then through 1994 were friends with occasional benefits. From 1995 through 2010 we saw and heard nothing from each other. In 2010 he came with me to return to the church where I had been sexually abused as part of a support group of friends. We had no contact from then until just the past few days.

As far as I know he is not involved with anyone else. He could be deceiving me, though that would be against his character. Our interpersonal dynamic that we both were referring to is one of equals, peers, friends, one that might not easily transform into a D/s 24/7 dynamic. It is our concern that we not damage our capacity to remain friends should any steps we take towards a power exchange dynamic run into conflict with this existing interpersonal dynamic.

And actually we talked about this very thing last night. And it seems we are in agreement that we both want whatever power exchange dynamic we build together to include some time that is vanilla-ish, companion-ish, lets just hang out and watch a movie sort of time. And we were both quite happy to hear the other say this- that neither of us is living in lotus-land about a 24/7 scene.

I hope this answers your question?

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Perhaps some nervousness on your part or fear of rejection?

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I think the difference between the two is entirely in the eye of the beholder. And had this guy decided that by you being honest about your feelings and desires, that thus you were 'pushy', then you would have learned that you aren't compatible with him. Because the person you are needs to be honest about how you feel, needs a relationship where open sharing is encouraged.

And that anyone who would feel this makes you pushy isn't someone you could be happy with. Because long term, you are not going to be able to stifle yourself and pretend to be someone else.

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

My concern with these types of situations is that one ends up falling in love or deeper while the other still wants to live by the agreement and just wants it to be a friendship basis type thing. This ends up with one or more parties being hurt when the relationship doesn't stay the same as it always has been.

Just something to keep in mind when you move into this with this friend of yours.