RE: Is Pro-Domme Illegal in California?

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RE: Is Pro-Domme Illegal in California? - 3/27/2014 1:50:26 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SacLawCA

This thread has nothing to do with what I'm seeking, my looks, or chemistry. I do believe that the typical Pro-Domme engages in illegal activity. What I'm curious about is those people who say they aren't. How then do you explain anal penetration isn't sexual? How do you explain ass and/or breast worship isn't sexual? I guess I named the thread incorrectly.

Which is something that established dungeons all explicitly forbid and they will fire dommes who cross the line, as they are endangering the whole business.

You can believe that the earth is flat and rests on a turtle who stands on 4 elephants if you wish, doesn't mean that that is how it really is. If you're cruising BackPage however, you might find it.

Now why would you think this happens? Since your profile explicitly states you are only looking to have fetishes fulfilled and want nothing sexual? Were those Dommes you contacted (since according to you they are a dime a dozen and they should wait until you contact them) all so crazy about you that they thought they risk being fired by their dungeons just to pound you with a strapon?

Or would you care to tell us how you know about the anal penetration?

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RE: Is Pro-Domme Illegal in California? - 3/27/2014 1:57:57 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FilmWithMistrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: SacLawCA

This thread has nothing to do with what I'm seeking, my looks, or chemistry. I do believe that the typical Pro-Domme engages in illegal activity. What I'm curious about is those people who say they aren't. How then do you explain anal penetration isn't sexual? How do you explain ass and/or breast worship isn't sexual? I guess I named the thread incorrectly.

Hmmm.. as a prodomme I never allowed ass or breast worship, in fact, no skin to skin worship above the knee...feet/lower leg only. Strapon play is illegal in many jurisdictions, and I only do S/O in California on video, which is in fact, legal.

Of course you assume strapon is sexual.. I find it more of a power action... and rarely when you have a foot in your ass, is it likely to be sexual for the sub either.

Does the legality of it pertain to the fact it is being recorded for redistribution then? Also OP, it does in fact pertain to what you are seeking since you self admitted you engage in what you deem to be illegal activity.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 3/27/2014 1:58:50 PM >

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RE: Is Pro-Domme Illegal in California? - 3/27/2014 2:06:08 PM

LafayetteLady

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Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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Penetration in nearly all jurisdictions constitutes prostitution. Doesn't mater if it is a dildo, hand, foot or baseball bat.

I am not refering to what is done on film for distribution, as that falls into a different area.

So for the pro who thinks SO is about power....that may be how you view it, but the law will view it as sexual.

Just sayin.

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RE: Is Pro-Domme Illegal in California? - 3/27/2014 2:41:42 PM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SacLawCA
Everyone knows that it's illegal to accept money for sex (intercourse) or sexual acts (blow job, hand job, penetration). I've been to quite a few Pro-Dommes and even though I've never had sexual intercourse with any of them, there were sexual acts performed (no BJ or hand jobs). One of their favorite activities is to penetrate the man's anus with a toy or their fingers. How is this not sexual? A lot of them love ass worship where you kiss and lick. As you visit them several times they allow some more intimate things. All one has to do is visit their websites and you can see all the sexual acts they will perform on you for money. But every Pro-Domme I know claim they don't perform any sexual acts.

Many Pro-Dommes have websites and they have a disclaimer before entering, such as:

"I solemnly declare and affirm the following: I understand that the site I'm about to view contains material of a sexual nature....."

Well, if Pro-Domme doesn't perform any sexual acts, why would they need this disclaimer?

There are really two issues: what is technically legal in the US, and what is enforced.

The practicality of the situation is that prodommes have little to worry about legally unless they open a fixed address, i.e., a dungeon. The #1 legal problem prodommes have had in the US over the last ten years (maybe longer) is the enforcement of zoning laws. Sometimes this enforcement is bullshit -- a convenient way for a prudish minority to attack the immoral perverts who are probably all atheists anyway. About five years ago, I donated to the legal defense fund of a dungeon in Colorado that was in this situation.

Now, focusing on pros who run a dungeon, the laws differ dramatically from one municipality to the next. A good example of this is strapon play. Maybe the woman is dressed from head to toe in latex, and the guy is clothed except for a small hole over his ass. In some places, strapon is perfectly legal, and, in others, it's a sexual act that is only legal if it's done for free, or if it's being filmed for profit.

Again, to practicality: what matters is where you are based -- both the name of the city and your exact location in the city -- and whether political leaders want to score points by engaging in some form of moral crusade.

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RE: Is Pro-Domme Illegal in California? - 3/27/2014 4:22:21 PM

DarkSteven

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There are three different places where "legality" is interpreted. The police, the prosecutor, and the trial.

If the police consider you to be breaking the law, you get arrested. Even if you're later found innocent, you've lost time, money, and a lot of sleep. And probably a lot of clients.

If the prosecutor thinks he has a solid case, you lose even worse.

If you're convicted at trial, you're in deep stuff.

Obviously, the police are the least versed in the written and case law.

With that understood, prostitution is defined as sex for money. In some jurisdictions, it might be possible that "sex" is interpreted so broadly that any kind of pro Domme work might be construed as prostitution, but I'd hope that her work would have to involve penetration for that.

Breast worship - I can't see that as sexual anywhere. Anal penetration - good chance that would be sex, and possibly oral on a strap-on.

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RE: Is Pro-Domme Illegal in California? - 3/27/2014 11:46:57 PM

MistressDarkArt

Posts: 5178
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Breast worship - I can't see that as sexual anywhere. Anal penetration - good chance that would be sex, and possibly oral on a strap-on.

What if the domme just tells the sub to do it to himself? He's still penetrated, but she hasn't touched him.

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Post #: 26

RE: Is Pro-Domme Illegal in California? - 3/28/2014 12:02:31 AM

MistrixMsE

Posts: 198
Joined: 1/3/2010
From: Chicago, USA - Touring Internationally
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

quote:

ORIGINAL: FilmWithMistrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: SacLawCA

This thread has nothing to do with what I'm seeking, my looks, or chemistry. I do believe that the typical Pro-Domme engages in illegal activity. What I'm curious about is those people who say they aren't. How then do you explain anal penetration isn't sexual? How do you explain ass and/or breast worship isn't sexual? I guess I named the thread incorrectly.

Hmmm.. as a prodomme I never allowed ass or breast worship, in fact, no skin to skin worship above the knee...feet/lower leg only. Strapon play is illegal in many jurisdictions, and I only do S/O in California on video, which is in fact, legal.

Of course you assume strapon is sexual.. I find it more of a power action... and rarely when you have a foot in your ass, is it likely to be sexual for the sub either.

Does the legality of it pertain to the fact it is being recorded for redistribution then? Also OP, it does in fact pertain to what you are seeking since you self admitted you engage in what you deem to be illegal activity.

Yes, I film strap on purely for distribution... it is a released video, via my company & outlets & It is a completely legal endeavor. Quite frankly, strapon video sells, well. The more dommes in the scene the better.

But really, anyone can open a clip store these days, so to get around the legality issue in CA, a domina simply has to get the sub to wear a hood, sign a release, provide ID, and put a camera on a tripod in the corner to circumvent.. and she gets residual income to boot. To answer another question posed... yes, the sub can insert their own toy. Many dommes have used that angle also. Of course once its in, you cant touch or manipulate the plug/toy.

I teach fisting & extreme anal play occasionally as well. I am semi-retired, and focusing on other priorities now that I have someone in my life on a personal level whom plays on par with me. In general practice, personally I almost exclusively do strapon with my partner, or in the occasion I am shooting video. Very few asses walk through the door that ask for strap-on look like my boys ass ;)

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Post #: 27

RE: Is Pro-Domme Illegal in California? - 3/28/2014 12:05:11 AM

MistrixMsE

Posts: 198
Joined: 1/3/2010
From: Chicago, USA - Touring Internationally
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

So for the pro who thinks SO is about power....that may be how you view it, but the law will view it as sexual.

Just sayin.

I was not arguing the laws view of anything, like I said, I am 100% legal there, as I only do S/O on film paperwork n releases neat and tidy or with a personal partner. Follow along, lol

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RE: Is Pro-Domme Illegal in California? - 3/28/2014 12:06:54 AM

evesgrden

Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
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We have an attorney who turns to random lay posters in a kinky internet forum for information on the law. This is the best resource he can think of to cite statute and precedence.

Not only does he lie, he lies badly.

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RE: Is Pro-Domme Illegal in California? - 3/28/2014 12:14:11 AM

MistrixMsE

Posts: 198
Joined: 1/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

Pro Domination I think is pretty much legal in all 50 US states. The gray area is what is considered a "sexual act" as sexual acts are what is illegal. This varies by state. It is very subjective also.

The real reality is there are many ProDommes who are 100% legit and do not offer sex in any form. Then there are those who do. Take your pick of which one you want to visit?

Actually, in Nevada, non sexual BDSM even between consenting adults without $ changing hands is technically illegal, as you can not 'consent to assault'.

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Post #: 30

RE: Is Pro-Domme Illegal in California? - 3/28/2014 9:10:07 AM

Missokyst

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Joined: 9/9/2006
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Penetration is no longer a sufficient definition. Take note of the many many massage parlors these days. Licenses can be pulled if they are caught giving a happy ending. That is a big IF.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Penetration in nearly all jurisdictions constitutes prostitution.

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Post #: 31