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little riot about swearing in officials - 3/28/2014 2:42:05 AM

MrBukani

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A little riot started about swearing in officials/politicians in holland.
You are allowed to say "so help me god" or "I state and promise that"
But somebody said so help me allah.

What do you think?
Can somebody swear by his own god or not?

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RE: little riot about swearing in officials - 3/28/2014 3:23:49 AM

joether

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I cant speak for the laws and legal code in Holland, In America that would be legal from the point of view of the 1st amendment. I imagine one of the dingbat conservatives on here would mention it and then rant for another few sentences at the 'evil', if it happened in the country. How do the people in Holland view this? I do not live there, so could not give a reasonable reaction. In my state it would be a brief footnote and then back to other news.

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RE: little riot about swearing in officials - 3/28/2014 6:11:11 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

A little riot started about swearing in officials/politicians in holland.
You are allowed to say "so help me god" or "I state and promise that"
But somebody said so help me allah.

What do you think?
Can somebody swear by his own god or not?

Which country are you on about ?

(in reply to MrBukani)

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RE: little riot about swearing in officials - 3/28/2014 6:50:39 AM

Tkman117

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Holland apparently

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RE: little riot about swearing in officials - 3/28/2014 7:12:04 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
A little riot started about swearing in officials/politicians in holland.
You are allowed to say "so help me god" or "I state and promise that"
But somebody said so help me allah.
What do you think?
Can somebody swear by his own god or not?

That's a very interesting point.

I'd have to imagine there would be plenty of people up in arms if a US official swore on oath to Allah.

I can't imagine you can force someone to say "so help me God" and not allow those who are Muslim say, "so help me Allah," or people of other faiths insert the name of their God(s).

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A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: little riot about swearing in officials - 3/28/2014 7:58:57 AM

MrBukani

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I swear by Wodin and all that is holy, ragnarok has come and all honorable men will join me in the halls of walhalla.

Or is this too much of a swear?

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RE: little riot about swearing in officials - 3/28/2014 8:15:55 AM

MrBukani

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
A little riot started about swearing in officials/politicians in holland.
You are allowed to say "so help me god" or "I state and promise that"
But somebody said so help me allah.
What do you think?
Can somebody swear by his own god or not?

That's a very interesting point.

I'd have to imagine there would be plenty of people up in arms if a US official swore on oath to Allah.

I can't imagine you can force someone to say "so help me God" and not allow those who are Muslim say, "so help me Allah," or people of other faiths insert the name of their God(s).

I reject that, Allah means nothing more or less then god. It's just semantics. And that's exactly what I am getting at. People come here and I have to respect them, but they don't have to respect my peoples choice?
I say fuck it, I cant give what's not given.

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RE: little riot about swearing in officials - 3/28/2014 10:32:03 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
A little riot started about swearing in officials/politicians in holland.
You are allowed to say "so help me god" or "I state and promise that"
But somebody said so help me allah.
What do you think?
Can somebody swear by his own god or not?

That's a very interesting point.

I'd have to imagine there would be plenty of people up in arms if a US official swore on oath to Allah.

I can't imagine you can force someone to say "so help me God" and not allow those who are Muslim say, "so help me Allah," or people of other faiths insert the name of their God(s).

For those unfamiliar with Quran clearly states that Allah and the God of Abraham are one and the same
, so from my perspective, no big deal. As long as the individual did not use this as an excuse
to ignore the rest of the oath.

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RE: little riot about swearing in officials - 3/28/2014 10:40:42 AM

dcnovice

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RE: little riot about swearing in officials - 3/28/2014 11:20:34 AM

MercTech

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Ever wonder why so many official oaths contain the words "I swear or affirm"?
Allowance is made for Christian sects that consider "swear" to be against religious beliefs.
I think allowance should be made for oaths taken by non Christians as to the wording of a binding oath.

Do we want to go back to the practices of the House Unamerican Activities Committee where some were charged with giving a false oath because they recited the Pledge of Alliegance but were known atheists?

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RE: little riot about swearing in officials - 3/28/2014 4:13:56 PM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
A little riot started about swearing in officials/politicians in holland.
You are allowed to say "so help me god" or "I state and promise that"
But somebody said so help me allah.
What do you think?
Can somebody swear by his own god or not?

That's a very interesting point.
I'd have to imagine there would be plenty of people up in arms if a US official swore on oath to Allah.
I can't imagine you can force someone to say "so help me God" and not allow those who are Muslim say, "so help me Allah," or people of other faiths insert the name of their God(s).

For those unfamiliar with Quran clearly states that Allah and the God of Abraham are one and the same
, so from my perspective, no big deal. As long as the individual did not use this as an excuse
to ignore the rest of the oath.

Are they allowed to say "God" or do they have to refer to "Allah?" If it doesn't matter, then, it shouldn't matter at all.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: little riot about swearing in officials - 3/28/2014 6:34:56 PM

MrBukani

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Bama made a good point that it is the same God of Abraham or Ibrahim like they say.
And it is allowed in Holland for any official to swear in with the words" I state and promise that"
You can do the same in our courts.
So people have the freedom not to swear on a god. I don't think it's even specified in the law that it is the christian god you swear by.
It's a bit of provocation wich I welcome. I really don't mind if muslims swear by allah or christians by god.
What is a bit strange if we are talkin of true freedom, is this. When I am a satanist I should swear by satan.
A kid might swear by Santa Clause.
My question is where should the judge draw the line?
My educated guess is if it's presumed false witness like somebody said.

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RE: little riot about swearing in officials - 3/29/2014 3:10:45 AM

joether

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
Bama made a good point that it is the same God of Abraham or Ibrahim like they say.
And it is allowed in Holland for any official to swear in with the words" I state and promise that"
You can do the same in our courts.
So people have the freedom not to swear on a god. I don't think it's even specified in the law that it is the christian god you swear by.
It's a bit of provocation wich I welcome. I really don't mind if muslims swear by allah or christians by god.
What is a bit strange if we are talkin of true freedom, is this. When I am a satanist I should swear by satan.
A kid might swear by Santa Clause.
My question is where should the judge draw the line?
My educated guess is if it's presumed false witness like somebody said.

A child within the United States can not sign a document of a contract nature. A job with a contract nature is one that sets the legal concepts of pay and benefits for work done within a time period. The only way a child could do such, is with the consent of their parent(s) or legal guardian(s). Now, could the child swear to be a good boy or girl to Santa Claus? What happens if they find the truth out? Are they still held to the previous contract terms?

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RE: little riot about swearing in officials - 3/29/2014 4:34:24 AM

MrBukani

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Joined: 4/18/2010
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A child can testify in court not?
I'm sorry you take the example of a child and not a satanist because I think you wanna avoid something. But let's go with it.
What if we find out God doesnt exist. Are all contracts void then? Are all rulings void. is every official not official?
Hope that answers your question.
The real question is how will a multi cultural society work with these things with respect to freedom of (no)religion.
Can I swear by my mother?
To me swearing by god is out of date. State and religion have long been seperated now, so to me this will always be a trap.
It's sort of segregation.
I think it's much better to just say I promise that, wich leaves the responsibility with the one who says it, not god.

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