Wealth Inequality (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Wealth Inequality


United States
  33% (10)
Sweden
  66% (20)


Total Votes : 30
(last vote on : 4/15/2014 9:49:17 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


DesideriScuri -> Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 2:28:19 AM)

Which would you prefer?

[image]http://images.mises.org/6705/1.png[/image]





DesideriScuri -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 2:30:46 AM)

http://mises.org/daily/6705/A-Closer-Look-at-Income-Inequality
    quote:

    Economic inequality is the big thing these days. Barack Obama has called it the “defining challenge of our time” and the number of books being published on the subject could fill a small library. Of particular note is a survey by Michael Norton and Dan Ariely of 5,000 Americans asking what they thought wealth inequality should be compared to what it actually is. Norton and Ariely asked which of two distributions the survey participants preferred, either that of the United States or Sweden (without knowing what those distributions represented). Here’s what they were given:
    [image]http://images.mises.org/6705/1.png[/image]

    Needless to say, 92 percent chose Sweden. ...


Go to the article to continue reading...




BenevolentM -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 4:05:05 AM)

I do not see how it is healthy for wealth not to flow like blood. So I voted for Sweden. Go Sweden!




mnottertail -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 5:59:27 AM)

I like the color red, but it is unclear what the bargraphs stand for.

Anything from the vonMises institute is similar in actual veracity as anything coming from Breitbart, so I choose Trinidad and Tobago.




eulero83 -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 6:56:58 AM)

I voted for sweden.

I edited the picture shrinking the swedish bar by average tax rate (46% in sweden and 24% in the usa) and GDP at purchasing power parity per capita (40k sweden and 51k usa) so I resized it by a factor of: (54*40)/(76*51)= 56%

[image]http://imageshack.com/a/img541/9031/7oah.png[/image]

This means the average swedish has a lifestyle better than 80% of the us citizens.

By the way nominal gdp per capita in sweden is 56k and 52k in the usa this means that also their economy in a free market world is working better.




joether -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 7:39:51 AM)

This was talked about a few months ago.





Zonie63 -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 7:43:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Which would you prefer?




I would prefer to stay in the United States, however we've been known to borrow certain concepts and ideas from Europe on occasion.

I don't think it's simply a matter of taking a political, economic, or social system of one country and just plugging it into another country and expecting the same results. That's why all this fervent devotion to ideological systems never really made sense to me.




Tkman117 -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 9:10:52 AM)

I meant to vote for sweden but I was a little confused by the poll at first and didn't read the first post, my bad :S




eulero83 -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 10:47:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

This was talked about a few months ago.




Just a little precisation: sweden is not a socialist country, they produce to profit in a free market it's just they have a different economy, there are less big corporations and more small business. Right now they have a center right governament, like all the other world's free democracies they have a socialist party that partecipate in the political life of the country and lobby to invest their wealth mostly in welfare.
Like Zonie63 said you can't just plug in a different economic and social system in another country and expect the same resoults, but governaments actually decide what kind of economical opportunities they can create for their citizens, the usa privilegiates big companies and IMHO this is the main reason why of that difference. By the way that bargraph doesn't show the social costs of that economical asset.




JeffBC -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 10:49:27 AM)

I'll take Sweden thank. And the guy who wrote that article is deliberately spinning numbers in obvious ways.




MrRodgers -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 11:19:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I'll take Sweden thank. And the guy who wrote that article is deliberately spinning numbers in obvious ways.

Well of course because for one aspect...age is irrelevant.

Look, the sociologist asks the same question...does modern civil society exist to serve economy or does economy exist to serve society. One builds a society with few certain incentives that are organic...always there. If the masses or the bulk of labor do not share in the wealth of production, only govt, can mitigate that influence just as govt. empowers business.

Efficient production as performed by labor creates wealth and expects a reasonable division of that wealth. In the US there has been a sea shift for over 30 years, that ever increasing efficient production has not served (being shared with) those doing the producing.

The taxes in Sweden also represent a division of wealth to spread the risk of health care just as a bank spreads the risk on lending. That the top 20% has only 12% less wealth than the same quintile in the US is testimony to the success in Sweden of balancing the needs of society and the incentives necessary to produce.

.....and BTW, this question has nothing at all to do with socialism (govt. ownership of the means of production) and the continued ignorance around that subject shows the success of capitalist propaganda.




vincentML -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 12:59:22 PM)

quote:

Efficient production as performed by labor creates wealth and expects a reasonable division of that wealth. In the US there has been a sea shift for over 30 years, that ever increasing efficient production has not served (being shared with) those doing the producing.

Over the last 30 years efficient production has been performed by outsourcing manufacturing and using robots stateside. We have lost some 30,000 manufacturing plants. Maybe more. So, Labor is no longer so important a factor here. Besides, disparity of wealth is good for the nation. It fuels the Corrections industry, the drug industry, growth of police forces, growth of the gun industry, and enriches slum landlords. What's not to like?[8|][8|]




Moonhead -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 1:03:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I'll take Sweden thank. And the guy who wrote that article is deliberately spinning numbers in obvious ways.

Well of course because for one aspect...age is irrelevant.

Look, the sociologist asks the same question...does modern civil society exist to serve economy or does economy exist to serve society. One builds a society with few certain incentives that are organic...always there. If the masses or the bulk of labor do not share in the wealth of production, only govt, can mitigate that influence just as govt. empowers business.

Efficient production as performed by labor creates wealth and expects a reasonable division of that wealth. In the US there has been a sea shift for over 30 years, that ever increasing efficient production has not served (being shared with) those doing the producing.

The taxes in Sweden also represent a division of wealth to spread the risk of health care just as a bank spreads the risk on lending. That the top 20% has only 12% less wealth than the same quintile in the US is testimony to the success in Sweden of balancing the needs of society and the incentives necessary to produce.

.....and BTW, this question has nothing at all to do with socialism (govt. ownership of the means of production) and the continued ignorance around that subject shows the success of capitalist propaganda.

Fascist propaganda.
If the rightists refuse to use accurate descriptions for people whose ideology they find distasteful, why should you?
[:D]




Lucylastic -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 1:08:37 PM)

typical fascist bullshit




Phydeaux -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 1:47:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

I voted for sweden.

I edited the picture shrinking the swedish bar by average tax rate (46% in sweden and 24% in the usa) and GDP at purchasing power parity per capita (40k sweden and 51k usa) so I resized it by a factor of: (54*40)/(76*51)= 56%

[image]http://imageshack.com/a/img541/9031/7oah.png[/image]

This means the average swedish has a lifestyle better than 80% of the us citizens.

By the way nominal gdp per capita in sweden is 56k and 52k in the usa this means that also their economy in a free market world is working better.


Amusing to adjust it the way you propose.

Since sweden is doing so well, perhaps it should start paying its fair share for its defense.
"Sweden’s defense capability has been seriously weakened by more than 10 years of low spending by governments on defense, Björklund said. The armed forces’ budget for 2014 amounts to $6.2 billion, equivalent to 1.05 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) and down from 1.5 percent of GDP in 2006. "

That “simulated” nighttime attack on mainland Sweden’s defense, industrial and government facilities took place March 29. The exercise was led by two Tu-22M3 Backfire heavy bombers escorted by four Su-27 Flanker fighters.

Götland’s strategic value for Russia is further heightened by the location of the $11 billion Nord Stream-operated Baltic Sea gas pipeline, which runs near the island’s eastern coastline. The pipeline transports 55 billion cubic meters of natural gas annually to markets in Western Europe.

“Cutbacks meant that Sweden offered no response to this act, which took place less than 32 kilometers from Götland and Swedish airspace,” Danielsson said. “Instead of Gripens, it was left to two Danish F-16s from NATO’s Quick Action Alert station in Lithuania to scramble and shadow the war-games aircraft back to Russia.”

Sweden, since the incident has asked for fast track admission into nato. And the nato guidelines call for minimum 2% spending.
So much for huge defense expenditures, eh?

The fact is that sweden spends an unsustainably low amount of money on defense.





DesideriScuri -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 2:25:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
I'll take Sweden thank. And the guy who wrote that article is deliberately spinning numbers in obvious ways.


Unspin them, then. Sure looks like the guy that wrote the article unspun the original pollsters to begin with.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 3:01:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Which would you prefer?

[image]http://images.mises.org/6705/1.png[/image]




I don't get it?




Hillwilliam -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 4:53:46 PM)

Sweden has hotter chicks.




eulero83 -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/7/2014 11:59:08 PM)

so your question is: if they are so good why they don't do more like the usa?

that 2% limit was there even when Albania joined NATO or did they had a discount?




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Wealth Inequality (4/8/2014 6:35:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Sweden has hotter chicks.



See, now that makes more sense to me.




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