RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups.

RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 2:49:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 FR 3 groups with "progressive" in the name were denied tax exempt status. None of them were delayed exempt status for over a year. Yeah, progressive groups were listed, but none were delayed. and no conservative groups were actually denied tax exempt status. So this comes down to whining about how long it took to get a status that the law flatly states these groups should not have gotten at all.

Phydeaux -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 6:29:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted. It is wrong to target groups, and it has been known that the vast majority of groups targeted were conservative. If you read the emails you would know that they were discussing DOJ cooking up false accusations against conservatives so that IRS could "investigate" them. Actually it is correct to target political groups since the status is specifically not meant for them. I know I've explained this to you before. actually you're just wrong I provided an email for Lois learner admits that the group's targeted were tea party groups

mnottertail -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 6:38:03 AM)
Ah, so the one under indictment is the codex of the truth here, so she targeted them. Not Obama, not Holder, not Reid, not anyone but the nutsacker she is, and was appointed by W, yanno. Was that in the email? The statement that 'I cannot confirm that the other side was targeted', is not an admission that only nutsackers were targeted.

Phydeaux -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 6:38:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted. Sorry Ken, but as usual, you're wrong about the facts. From your link: quote: The Treasury inspector general's office said Thursday that while the Internal Revenue Service screened both progressive and conservative groups between 2010 and 2012, the latter faced more scrutiny. Groups from both sides were targeted (what Ken stated). Conservative groups faced more scrutiny. Some might gloss over that by noting (correctly) that both sides were targeted, and that more liberal groups were denied status. All applications should be scrutinized equally, regardless of which way they lean politically. Neither side should be "targeted." That conservative groups were "targeted" and most still were granted status seems to show that the increased scrutiny wasn't necessary. I think the bigger issue was that the application process was longer than it should have been. It's possible that was the entire purpose, too. Even if granting status is still done, making it more difficult for one group over another for subjective reasons is wrong. That's what seems to be what happened. Ken was correct, as difficult as that might be to admit (it just seems so wrong because it's so rare). Actually in this case all political groups should be targeted since this tax status specifically excludes political groups. clearly once again you are wrong the IRS did not deny applications rather they just sat on them long enough so they could not be active in the political arena for 3 years and eventually the groups were predominantly approved ergo your logic is wrong. what we have here is democratic members of Congress directing a democratic appointee to investigate political opponents and coordinating the prosecution with democratic Department of Justice funny how you don't think this is a breach of law and then you have Obama and others of the administration lying both to the press and under congressional appearance which is also illegal and yet there is for you no story herewonder why that is

mnottertail -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 6:39:54 AM)
because there is no proof of even the slightest kind of these nutsacker hallucinations.

DesideriScuri -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 6:43:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted. Sorry Ken, but as usual, you're wrong about the facts. From your link: quote: The Treasury inspector general's office said Thursday that while the Internal Revenue Service screened both progressive and conservative groups between 2010 and 2012, the latter faced more scrutiny. Groups from both sides were targeted (what Ken stated). Conservative groups faced more scrutiny. Some might gloss over that by noting (correctly) that both sides were targeted, and that more liberal groups were denied status. All applications should be scrutinized equally, regardless of which way they lean politically. Neither side should be "targeted." That conservative groups were "targeted" and most still were granted status seems to show that the increased scrutiny wasn't necessary. I think the bigger issue was that the application process was longer than it should have been. It's possible that was the entire purpose, too. Even if granting status is still done, making it more difficult for one group over another for subjective reasons is wrong. That's what seems to be what happened. Ken was correct, as difficult as that might be to admit (it just seems so wrong because it's so rare). Actually in this case all political groups should be targeted since this tax status specifically excludes political groups. No, Ken. All applications should be checked into. There should be no "targeting" (wouldn't that be profiling?) of any group, Liberal, Progressive, Conservative, Libertarian, Socialist, Communist, Librarian, etc. It seems there were some groups profiled, and those groups were subject to extra scrutiny. Some were simply delayed for over a year. Regardless of which political bent the groups seemed to follow, that's wrong. If the DOJ was complicit in a scheme to give extra scrutiny to seemingly conservative groups makes it even worse. It may not have anything to do with Obama (and I don't think it does), but if the DOJ was involved, Holder is likely to be complicit, and should be held accountable. I'll repeat, the tax status these groups were applying for is not for political groups so none of the application should have been approved at all so all of the groups should have been targeted for extra scrutiny and turned down because that is the law. No, Ken. They should not have been targeted. That's profiling, and that's a no no. Don't you know that? Every application should be checked. Every single one. If something fishy pops up, then there should be more of an investigation. Putting together a list of words that will provoke extra investigation isn't applying laws equally. And, working with the DoJ to trump up bullshit reasons for extra investigation isn't applying the laws equally, either. Shouldn't the eyes of justice be blind? [image]http://cdn.straightfromthea.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Lady-Justice.jpg[/image]

DesideriScuri -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 6:45:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux the IRS did not deny applications rather they just sat on them long enough so they could not be active in the political arena for 3 years and eventually the groups were predominantly approved ergo your logic is wrong. what we have here is democratic members of Congress directing a democratic appointee to investigate political opponents and coordinating the prosecution with democratic Department of Justice funny how you don't think this is a breach of law and then you have Obama and others of the administration lying both to the press and under congressional appearance which is also illegal and yet there is for you no story herewonder why that is Wasn't Lerner a Bush appointee?

BamaD -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 8:45:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux the IRS did not deny applications rather they just sat on them long enough so they could not be active in the political arena for 3 years and eventually the groups were predominantly approved ergo your logic is wrong. what we have here is democratic members of Congress directing a democratic appointee to investigate political opponents and coordinating the prosecution with democratic Department of Justice funny how you don't think this is a breach of law and then you have Obama and others of the administration lying both to the press and under congressional appearance which is also illegal and yet there is for you no story herewonder why that is Wasn't Lerner a Bush appointee? Does it matter, if she conspired with DOJ to trump up accusations to stall groups opposed to any party isn't that illegal regardless of who appointed her?

MrRodgers -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 9:13:43 AM)
This whole debate arises out of the relief sought from [its] tax deductiblity. I say one removes this power or alleged requirement of govt. to audit the source of this money. I say remove the tax deductibility of ALL non remedial giving i.e., non political. Church, Red Cross, Veteran's needs, the disabled, where the giving results primarily...in more giving rather than merely political or special i.e., narrow interest ideas. GIVE yes, by all means, it just can't come off your taxes. Once that is shall we say...perfected, you eliminate this job from the govt. of going after the source searching for that benefit.

DesideriScuri -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 9:24:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux the IRS did not deny applications rather they just sat on them long enough so they could not be active in the political arena for 3 years and eventually the groups were predominantly approved ergo your logic is wrong. what we have here is democratic members of Congress directing a democratic appointee to investigate political opponents and coordinating the prosecution with democratic Department of Justice funny how you don't think this is a breach of law and then you have Obama and others of the administration lying both to the press and under congressional appearance which is also illegal and yet there is for you no story herewonder why that is Wasn't Lerner a Bush appointee? Does it matter, if she conspired with DOJ to trump up accusations to stall groups opposed to any party isn't that illegal regardless of who appointed her? It does matter, Bama. Phydeaux made the claim that she is a democratic appointee. I don't believe that is true, so I challenged it. Better to fight with truth on your side, isn't it? If she was a Bush appointee, she should still be tried, and she should still be liable for whatever the proper consequence is, if she's found guilty. Better to get that little bit straight upfront rather than letting it be the thing that's grasped that causes the argument to be effectively impotent.

mnottertail -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 9:31:03 AM)
She was a Bush administration appointee from the federal elections commission, who moved her over to the IRS and in that spot she was in. Prior to that she was like in the DOJ. Been a government sloth since Reagan. Shulman was a W appointee.

subrob1967 -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 9:39:52 AM)
FR Bush appointed many registered Democrats, just like Clinton and Obama have appointed many registered Republicans. No, the appointment doesn't matter, how they perform matters, and it appears that Lerner conspired with Obama's DOJ and the ranking minority committee member to affect the status of opposition political groups.

mnottertail -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 9:44:53 AM)
It might appear like that to the constantly conspiratorial nutsackers, but there is no proof whatsoever, and no facts that would present themselves as even slightly indicative of such nutsackerisms. Even the convict Issa cant come up with his usual frenzied asswipe.

BamaD -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 9:59:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux the IRS did not deny applications rather they just sat on them long enough so they could not be active in the political arena for 3 years and eventually the groups were predominantly approved ergo your logic is wrong. what we have here is democratic members of Congress directing a democratic appointee to investigate political opponents and coordinating the prosecution with democratic Department of Justice funny how you don't think this is a breach of law and then you have Obama and others of the administration lying both to the press and under congressional appearance which is also illegal and yet there is for you no story herewonder why that is Wasn't Lerner a Bush appointee? Does it matter, if she conspired with DOJ to trump up accusations to stall groups opposed to any party isn't that illegal regardless of who appointed her? It does matter, Bama. Phydeaux made the claim that she is a democratic appointee. I don't believe that is true, so I challenged it. Better to fight with truth on your side, isn't it? If she was a Bush appointee, she should still be tried, and she should still be liable for whatever the proper consequence is, if she's found guilty. Better to get that little bit straight upfront rather than letting it be the thing that's grasped that causes the argument to be effectively impotent. A technical inaccuracy true. But one used by the left to somehow let them use the "it's Bush's fault" montra and to dismiss the problem.

mnottertail -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/18/2014 10:03:37 AM)
It is mantra. Nobody is saying it is Bushes fault. Everybody is saying, typical nutsackers, they are in it with both feet and using their 1984 doublespeak to point the blame to anyone but themselves, saying it is Obama's fault.

truckinslave -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/19/2014 12:20:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted. No. It's well known that such a statement was made. It's almost as well known that the statement was technically true but, in effect, a lie.

DomKen -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/19/2014 3:36:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted. No. It's well known that such a statement was made. It's almost as well known that the statement was technically true but, in effect, a lie. WTF? Groups from both sides got extra scrutiny and liberal groups were actually turned down while no conservative groups were. There is no way you can spin that to not be true.

Phydeaux -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/19/2014 3:39:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux the IRS did not deny applications rather they just sat on them long enough so they could not be active in the political arena for 3 years and eventually the groups were predominantly approved ergo your logic is wrong. what we have here is democratic members of Congress directing a democratic appointee to investigate political opponents and coordinating the prosecution with democratic Department of Justice funny how you don't think this is a breach of law and then you have Obama and others of the administration lying both to the press and under congressional appearance which is also illegal and yet there is for you no story herewonder why that is Wasn't Lerner a Bush appointee? Does it matter, if she conspired with DOJ to trump up accusations to stall groups opposed to any party isn't that illegal regardless of who appointed her? It does matter, Bama. Phydeaux made the claim that she is a democratic appointee. I don't believe that is true, so I challenged it. Better to fight with truth on your side, isn't it? If she was a Bush appointee, she should still be tried, and she should still be liable for whatever the proper consequence is, if she's found guilty. Better to get that little bit straight upfront rather than letting it be the thing that's grasped that causes the argument to be effectively impotent. Before you dispute that she is a dimocrat, Consider this link, where she is found asking about a DC office job for Organizing for Action the outfit that replaced obama's campaign group. http://hotair.com/archives/2014/04/09/lois-lerner-2013-e-mail-maybe-i-can-land-an-office-job-at-organizing-for-action/comment-page-1/ You might want to consider the allegations here: http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2013/06/lerner-asked-salvi-for-200000-plus-never-run-again-promise.html Democratic appointee is possibly unfair. Her post is not subject to presidential appointment. So perhaps it is more fair to say dimocrat appointee. Or appointee who is a dimocrat.

Phydeaux -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/19/2014 3:40:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted. No. It's well known that such a statement was made. It's almost as well known that the statement was technically true but, in effect, a lie. WTF? Groups from both sides got extra scrutiny and liberal groups were actually turned down while no conservative groups were. There is no way you can spin that to not be true. Creditable source please? Say, for an example, the inspector general's report? As opposed to dimocrat talking points which is EXACTLY where this canard originated.

Musicmystery -> RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party groups. (4/19/2014 3:44:20 PM)
Do you think you could debate like a grown up? It might make your challenges seem a bit more worth taking seriously.

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