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BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/17/2014 1:47:52 PM

ilona774

Posts: 1
Joined: 4/17/2014
Status: offline

my master is an alcoholic. a pretty bad one. he was in recovery when we met. we had a wonderful life. but about 18 months into the relationship he fell off the wagon, and it has been a rough 18 months since then. he uses alcohol, cocaine and gambles like crazy.

it's a difficult position to be in as the submissive person in the relationship. i walk on eggshells. his demands are great and he is able to give little. i have been working the al-anon program and attempting to detach with love. but how does one detach when the very nature of the relationship is to serve the needs of someone else?

i recognize that i need to serve in the ways he needs and not the ways i would like. there are times it can be so incredibly difficult, especially when the "alcohol meanness" sets in. he goes through cycles of telling me i am the best thing that ever happened to him, then saying i need to get out because he doesn't love me anymore. we attended therapy together for a while and it was great until he was confronted about his terrible childhood and now he refuses to ever return. i really love the man, and i really hate the disease.

it is difficult to relate to others in al-anon at times. other people in the group don't have the component of BDSM and i am hesitant to discuss such an issue. how does one serve without enabling? i can't figure out how to do this.

i guess i'm just wondering if anyone else out there has ever dealt with this, either as the Dominant one in the relationship or as the submissive. were you able to work things out? are you happy now? what were your coping methods? this life has me feeling very alone.

if you aren't comfortable responding to this thread, you are welcome to write me privately and i will respond with my regular cm account. i'm sorry that i am hiding who i am but for me this is a really sensitive topic and i would rather people in our social circle who are on the site not recognize us.

Post #: 1

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/17/2014 2:15:43 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

What he "needs" is a wake up call and what YOU need is to step out of your role and see the situation as a person in a relationship that is going to hell in a handbasket.

Al anon can be great but what you need to do right now is walk away. Love and/or submissiveness don't mean putting yourself through hell, which is what you are doing now.

Your leaving might be the wake up call he needs to straighten out, or it may send him spiraling furtheer downward. Regardless, your concern right now needs to be you, not him.

(in reply to ilona774)

Post #: 2

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/17/2014 2:28:49 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
What he "needs" is a wake up call and what YOU need is to step out of your role and see the situation as a person in a relationship that is going to hell in a handbasket.

This... but in a nicer way.

Look, Carol's got some real issues with me right now... not risen to these levels by far but still, she had trouble bringing them up, felt like she was dancing on egg shells, etc.

What I needed was to hear the problem clearly and without a ton of softening. What she needed was to speak her piece. What we both needed was to get on fixing the parts of the problem which belonged to us. Neither of us had to step out of any role to do that although it's certainly true that our dynamic has taken a steep hit as a result of it all. That's why it's cool to not have roles We just get to be us doing the best we can to have a happy marriage.

So OP, speaking as the "bad dom" in this equation, you need to serve your master exactly as you said, by doing what he NEEDS not what either you or he want. Almost certainly that involves what, to you, will look like hitting him upside the head with a clue by 4. If that doesn't work you need to save yourself in the "rats off a sinking ship" sort of way. You're not the captain of this particular ship. He's the one with the obligation to ride it under the waves, not you.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 3

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/17/2014 2:46:48 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

There is at least one Denver area AA chapter that's formed of kinksters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilona774

i really love the man, and i really hate the disease.

I'm sorry, but the man you love has permitted alcoholism to enter his life and control it. You have only two choices:

Accept him as an alcoholic, or
Leave.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 4

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/17/2014 7:32:07 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilona774

my master is an alcoholic. a pretty bad one. he was in recovery when we met. we had a wonderful life. but about 18 months into the relationship he fell off the wagon, and it has been a rough 18 months since then. he uses alcohol, cocaine and gambles like crazy.

it's a difficult position to be in as the submissive person in the relationship. i walk on eggshells. his demands are great and he is able to give little. i have been working the al-anon program and attempting to detach with love. but how does one detach when the very nature of the relationship is to serve the needs of someone else?

i recognize that i need to serve in the ways he needs and not the ways i would like. there are times it can be so incredibly difficult, especially when the "alcohol meanness" sets in. he goes through cycles of telling me i am the best thing that ever happened to him, then saying i need to get out because he doesn't love me anymore. we attended therapy together for a while and it was great until he was confronted about his terrible childhood and now he refuses to ever return. i really love the man, and i really hate the disease.

it is difficult to relate to others in al-anon at times. other people in the group don't have the component of BDSM and i am hesitant to discuss such an issue. how does one serve without enabling? i can't figure out how to do this.

i guess i'm just wondering if anyone else out there has ever dealt with this, either as the Dominant one in the relationship or as the submissive. were you able to work things out? are you happy now? what were your coping methods? this life has me feeling very alone.

if you aren't comfortable responding to this thread, you are welcome to write me privately and i will respond with my regular cm account. i'm sorry that i am hiding who i am but for me this is a really sensitive topic and i would rather people in our social circle who are on the site not recognize us.

Mean drunks never become funny drunks.

(in reply to ilona774)

Post #: 5

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/17/2014 7:36:04 PM

Darkfeather

Posts: 1142
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline

Look up the definition of the word Enabling

(in reply to ilona774)

Post #: 6

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/17/2014 7:50:14 PM

SweetAnise

Posts: 480
Joined: 8/23/2013
Status: offline

To the OP: He needs treatment. I do agree with Darkfeather...when we enable the behavior it is just a way for them to justify continuing to do it. I hope you decide for yourself what is best for you. He can only help himself if he wants it or hit bottom. But you deserve to take care of you and you do not need to submit to someone through their addictive behaviors.

_____________________________

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us."-Marianne Williamson

(in reply to Darkfeather)

Post #: 7

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/17/2014 8:54:36 PM

cloverodella

Posts: 133
Joined: 8/8/2013
Status: offline

As a fellow Al-anon member, take all these replies with a grain of salt. I really don't think your question in a forum like this is going to be much help. Feel free to message me.

My immediate concern for you is are you physically safe? Because that right there may give you the answer you really need (but may not want). You don't say if he's physically abusive when drinking. You also don't say what kind of play you're into or the nature of your relationship.

I'm very much a novice and don't know very much about about BDSM. I've never been in a D/s relationship. But one of the cornerstones is trust, right? When an alcoholic is drinking, they are totally unpredictable. They are self-centered, and everything is about them. And yes, in D/s things may revolve around the Dom and serving him, but ultimately, drunk, he is unable to be of service to you, too. Being intoxicated takes away possibility for rational thought. The inhibition makes it much easier to be abusive. Can BDSM play be safe when the dominant is not aware, safe, or sane in terms of either "Risk Aware Consensual Kink" or "Safe Sane Consensual"? My first thought is that bondage or pain play can't possibly be safe if the dominant is not in control of himself.

A big part of detaching with love is to learning to take care of ourselves, to meet and protect our own mental, physical, spiritual needs. I think a wise boundary would be no play when under the influence.

No one is going to be able to tell you what you need to do, or what would be best for you. I'm sure many of the replies will lay it out for you, but they don't understand. Honestly, the only advice *I* would take is that from another Al-anon member, or possibly a long-time 12-step member of AA/NA/etc. I'm sure others will disagree with me.

The first link the pops up in a google search for "bdsm and alcoholism" is for the group "Recovery in the Lifestyle". It might be worth checking out, though I know nothing about them: http://www.recoveryinthelifestyle.org/

[edited to add: i didn't read any of the posts before responding directly to you]

< Message edited by cloverodella -- 4/17/2014 8:59:34 PM >

(in reply to ilona774)

Post #: 8

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/17/2014 9:04:29 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

He's not a dominant. He's a slave to alcohol, cocaine and gambling.

You aren't serving him, you're enabling him.

I strongly suggest you walk before he brings you down too. Before he steals your earnings to buy drugs and you're living on the street. Before he decides the only thing he can sell to pay his bookie is having you service men for cash.

And I've never been to a good Al-Anon meeting in my life. I'd go to ACOA meetings instead.

The best way you can help him? Turn him in to the cops, let him face reality.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to cloverodella)

Post #: 9

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/17/2014 9:08:12 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

And I've never been to a good Al-Anon meeting in my life. I'd go to ACOA meetings instead.

How do they differ? I don't know either program real well.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 10

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/18/2014 2:50:01 AM

areallivehuman

Posts: 277
Joined: 1/16/2010
Status: offline

I dealt with an alcoholic wife for 16 years, not in a BDSM relationship however. My advice, next time he tells you he doesn't love you and you should leave, take him up on it. You simply cannot change him, and staying with him is not helping anyone. You cannot serve and not enable.

5 years later, I am much better off. She continues her downward spiral.

Self control is a cornerstone of dominance. An alcoholic has little to no self control. When you're really ready, give him a "rehab or else" ultimatum, and be prepared to follow through with the "or else".

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 11

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/18/2014 3:59:24 AM

TieMeInKnottss

Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
Status: offline

My vanilla ex husband is an alcoholic. From Al-Anon, you understand that means whether he drinks or not...he is an alcoholic and will be for the rest of his life. It is a matter of whether he chooses to medicate with alcohol or by getting real help. My ex became a dry drunk...does not change things for the better.

My advice? sounds like you still care. Leave now...while you still do. It could be the wake up call he needs. If you wait until you hate him then there is no hope of, if he goes into recovery of you all working things out ever. I did not leave my marriage until I hated him for what he did to me and our kids. I waited until the offenses he committed were so heinous (in my view) that I could not ever look at him with respect again or remember who he was.

(in reply to areallivehuman)

Post #: 12

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/18/2014 4:53:47 AM

Submediant

Posts: 2
Joined: 11/18/2013
Status: offline

Get out while you still can.

I wish I could offer a better solution, but when I was in a relationship with an alcoholic man, it came down to that, and I left. I don't regret regret doing so one bit.

EDIT: Sorry mods, for some reason I keep on getting stuck into the wrong account on this side of the fence and then subsequently unable to delete these posts and re-enter using my regular ID. Anyhow, feel free to delete as needed.

< Message edited by Submediant -- 4/18/2014 4:58:58 AM >

(in reply to ilona774)

Post #: 13

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/18/2014 2:20:18 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

And I've never been to a good Al-Anon meeting in my life. I'd go to ACOA meetings instead.

How do they differ? I don't know either program real well.

Around here, and this is a small town, the women running the Al-Anon meetings had a vested interest in keeping their husbands actively drinking so they could pat themselves on their backs as what good martyrs they were.

ACOA talks about your family of origin. And that's important because when you walk into a crowded room and pick out the one addict in the bunch to get involved with, it comes from somewhere. We do this because it's familiar. Familiar as in your family.

Recognizing where you come from will inform you as to why you chose the road to where you are now. Which is needed if you want to plot a path out of the same old unhealthy patterns.

I guess I'd sum up the difference as Al-Anon is about anger, and ACOA is about pain. At least in my experience. But in a city, I'm sure there are good Al-Anon meetings.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 4/18/2014 2:21:53 PM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 14

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/18/2014 7:38:21 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

Well I have to say if I base Alanon on the one poster here, I would never recommend someone try it. Her comment reeks of the "12 step" one wayism. Making a first post actively dismissing everything others say? No one has said anything more than she needs to step out of this situation as opposed to ivesting her life in someone ttoo inept to lead her.

There are times when I'm sure such progrms can give strength, I don't see this as one of them. The OP needs to stop worrying about how she can productively serve and follow an erratic and often mean drunk and concentrate on putting her life in order, likely without him.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 15

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/19/2014 5:38:44 PM

doctorgrey

Posts: 373
Status: offline

The simplest, but probably hardest solution is to leave.
Let the guy wake up to his own issues and get his act together.

An alcaholic is no person to take a major role in anyones life - until they have thier issues under control.

He needs to lose more, before he can take control of himself - let alone anyone else.
It's for his good, as much as yours.

DrG

_____________________________

.

landing itself was nothing
we touched upon a shelf of rock selected by the automind
and left
a galaxy of dreams
behind

(in reply to ilona774)

Post #: 16

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/19/2014 7:29:12 PM

StrictlyADomina

Posts: 103
Joined: 7/11/2011
Status: offline

He is not an alcoholic he is an addict. He does not need meetings he needs inpatient treatment. However, nothing you can do will convince him to go unless he is ready to go himself. He is not a "mean drunk" he is abusive. I agree with the rest you are enabling this dysfunctional relationship. You won't leave until you want out. When you want out is up to you. Know this, you can not "fix" him or "rescue him" no matter how much you "love/care/respect" him. When you are tired of the addiction, dysfunction and abuse you will find some way to leave, but not until then. You probably have family and friends unless he has separated you from them somehow, as is standard behavior for abusers. Find them, pack and leave all the wiser for this experience and don't go back to him.

(in reply to doctorgrey)

Post #: 17

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/21/2014 7:18:25 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Well I have to say if I base Alanon on the one poster here, I would never recommend someone try it. Her comment reeks of the "12 step" one wayism. Making a first post actively dismissing everything others say? No one has said anything more than she needs to step out of this situation as opposed to ivesting her life in someone ttoo inept to lead her.

There are times when I'm sure such progrms can give strength, I don't see this as one of them. The OP needs to stop worrying about how she can productively serve and follow an erratic and often mean drunk and concentrate on putting her life in order, likely without him.

I did say that in a larger city with more choice of meetings, you would probably find a good and helpful Al-Anon group, but that my experience in a small town was that they were unwelcoming. And that this was solely my experience.

However I am a strong believer in the fact that people don't choose poor relationships by accident. And the only way to find a healthy relationship in the future is to discover why the unhealthy ones appeal to you. And then change that. Since this has been my path and why I am now in a stable and healthy long term relationship, I do recommend it as one that works. YMMV.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 4/21/2014 7:22:09 AM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 18

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/21/2014 11:53:16 AM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

My reply was actually to the poster who said that since he/she was an Alanon member, the OP should take what us non- telve steppers say with a grain of salt.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 19

RE: BDSM and Alcoholism - 4/21/2014 12:29:10 PM

anniezz338

Posts: 1183
Joined: 8/17/2010
Status: offline

My dad was an abusive alcoholic and my mom stayed married to him for 20 years because of Al-anon and her catholic upbringing. When I look at the years she wasted, it's a shame. It was an awful childhood.

And my mom sweared by Al-anon even as she and her children were being abused.

It's not worth it. You don't have to be there while he recovers, if he even does. Just get out before you get truly hurt. If he gets better, you can go back. Let him do it hisself.

_____________________________

I had become insane, with horrific lapses of sanity. Edgar Allen Poe

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 20

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