Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (Full Version)

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Lec -> Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (4/22/2014 6:11:28 AM)

Let's say I have a submissive personality. I was never a leader of the crowd, never too aggressive or assertive, and I was in many cases more of a follower. I am a bit of a typical "nice guy". Also, I think that pleasing my woman would make me happy and it doesn't have to be any kinky way of pleasing her but it can also be normal practical stuff, that's not sexualized in any way. Let's also say the idea of sexual submission, and many other things related to BDSM turn me on.

I did watch some femdom porn, but I am not in any way obsessed with fantasies. My kinks and fetishes are few and mild. I am generally a logical person, and very grounded in reality.

I never had any real, in-person femdom encounters in my life. I live in a country where the scene is very small, underground or non-existant. There are no munches here. So I don't really know how I would react to the real thing. Maybe it would open me up and feel great, and definitely allow me to accept myself as a submissive. But it is also completely possible that I wouldn't be able to take the pain at all or that I couldn't really handle all the things that I imagine I can.

I think for doms it's easier to accept their identity, because being dom is in many ways self-affirming, self-serving stance which can give you direct benefit of service from your subs, plus you don't expose yourself to as much risks as a sub. Also for female subs it's easier to accept their identity, because it's in some way close to traditional role of a woman, and not so subversive. Plus, male doms, as someone said in a different topic can be more protective, gentler and less demanding, because women are more fragile, and there is always this instinct to protect someone you feel is weaker physically.

On the other hand, being a male submissive is completely opposite of the usual male gender role, and also, being a sub, or slave, to me seems a bit like self-defeating, self-negating and self-sabotaging life stance.

Here is the list of concerns that I have regarding being a sub:

- Feeling isolated from the rest of the world and the mainstream culture.
- Not being able to identify myself with characters in regular drama or romance movies, and therefore one sense of loneliness and detachment.
- Not having control over my life (if you are owned as a slave, you can't make choices) - So I could thrive only in a relationship in which I do serve, and do engage in kink, but in which the ultimate control over my life is in my hands - so TPE is excluded
- Questioning how healthy it is to engage in frequent and intense sessions? (Does it over time taxes the body? Constant microtraumas on skin, constant psychological roller-coasters, with adrenaline, dopamine and endorphins - simply STRESS that is result of intense sessions, subspace, subdrop, etc...) Does it drain and exhaust body and mind? Does it cause accumulation of small damages to health and psyche, to body and mind over time?
- Having too often to accept things that I don't want to do and that make me suffer. Or that make me feel really humiliated, not in a good or kinky way. (If they make all decisions...)
- It goes against some of my ideals of freedom, of having my own attitude and my own opinion on everything.

OK; I guess all of my concerns probably apply only to more extreme relationships with lots of S/M and with elements of TPE. I guess in more mild D/s relationship i could still thrive.



angelikaJ -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (4/22/2014 6:32:05 AM)

There are femdom dynamics, but there are also relationships that are simply female led.
She is happy making the decisions and you trust her enough to happily let her.

There are relationships that are kink driven under the BDSM umbrella and then there are relationships that are structured on D/s: dominance and submission - and kink is never a part.

I think it takes time to figure out within the spectrum where one lies.
Don't rush, take your time, and you may find that as long as you are true to yourself, when you enter into a relationship the details will sort themselves out.



AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (4/22/2014 6:59:38 AM)

You are overthinking it.

Chances are when you do this in the flesh, you WILL find things much different than you expect. The odds are good that you will not be able to take as much pain as you think - most people who play hard have built up to it anyway, but what sounds hot in reality is often just really fricken painful. I thought I was way more masochistic than I am. Anyway, it doesn't really matter. Anyone worth being with will understand you need time to figure out what works for you.

I don't think it's necessarily easier for a female to submit. You forget that we've had years of women fighting for the vote, for equal workplace rights, inheritance rights, educational rights etc. To accept a traditional gender role and submit my will to a man feels like a betrayal of all that - a betrayal of the sex. You might be going against the cultural view of masculinity, I feel like I'm actively undermining other woman in their totally reasonable desire to be active agents in their own life. Or at least, I did feel like that, until I figured things out.

So you need to retain some control over your own life. That's fine. There's no medal for being more submissive than the next guy. You find the dynamic which makes you and your partner happy. I'm technically submissive to him in all areas of life, but since he's invested in my happiness and wellbeing he's supported me in all my big decisions about career and education and life goals. And accepting things that make you unhappy - well, here's a secret. All relationships involve compromise. In a vanilla relationship you will occassionally do things you don't like for the good of the relationship. If it happens too often or is extremely distressing to you, you change the relationship or you walk away. If you feel like crap, the relationship isn't working.

How healthy is it? That's something I can't answer, though if you're concerned about stress and endorphines I'd imagine it's the same concerns as someone who engages in extreme sports, or performance artists, or dangerous careers like firefighters.

I don't know why you would be isolated from mainstream culture. You can be sub and also go to clubs, support sports teams, have friends, watch popular movies etc. As for not being able to identify with people in fiction - well, there's never going to be a character who matches up with you perfectly. You can identify with the conflict of one character and the family issues of another and the amibition of a third...



DarkSteven -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (4/22/2014 8:31:34 AM)

Not only are you overthinking it, your views of femdom are not based in reality. You're worrying about a dynamic that's not real.



imtempting -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (4/22/2014 9:59:10 AM)

People have a fantasy of this dream where being a slave you do nothing but stay home. Unless you pick up a millionaire domme, chances are you working.

Also, treat the lifestyle no different to dating someone. You would not date someone who is not giving you want you want so why think the lifestyle is any different? One of the biggest things that annoy me when people guys and girls think they have to compromise their needs for the dom/domme and the dom/domme that make their subs think they have to forget their needs for the dom/domme needs.

Maybe all you need op is a kinky gf and or being under the thumb in a vanilla relationship.



FieryOpal -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (4/22/2014 11:06:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

You are overthinking it.
<snip>

Not only are you overthinking things, you are making all kinds of assumptions that have no basis in fact or in reality.

First of all, Dominance and submission are not conjoined to Sado-masochism.
Sadism and masochism are practiced with or without D/s. Think of them as Topping and bottoming activities.
Dominance and submission are a power dynamic consensually entered into as a closed-loop system.
Bondage need only enter the picture IF you consider D/s a state of mental bondage and have given your full consent to be owned by your Master-Mistress.

Discipline may be necessary on occasion, but Discipline does not a Humiliation & Punishment dynamic make.
Discipline does not have to take the form of physical chastisement and can be administered creatively.
You may be instructed to write an essay upon reflection of the transgression or correction needed. There may be a remedial course of action to undertake.
Discipline is ultimately about being taught a lesson and learning from the lesson instilled, until you acquire your own self-discipline.

In other words, D/s does not require BDSM. BDSM can be integrated within a framework of D/s, but both are independent of the other.

Secondly, go watch the movie "Elysium" out on DVD. Matt Damon's character is a heroic male submissive type caught up in futuristic social dystopia.

Third, make a list of your Hard Limits (Deal Breakers) and your Soft Limits. Make sure these are covered in advance with any prospective Dominant.
Don't sign any slave contracts. I personally don't believe in them. Being provided with a list of specific guidelines or rules will suffice.

You will get things sorted out once you meet a live person, and your standards for friendship, an intimate relationship, or any other social dynamic should be no different than how you choose to live your vanilla life.



InHisHeart -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (4/22/2014 12:54:24 PM)

I also believe you're over thinking it.

The things you list as your concerns, it seems you have a skewed idea of what a D/s relationship is like. They're all different, individual to each couple.

People who live this lifestyle have family, friends, have kids, work, etc., we're not living in our own little corner isolated from the world or vanilla folks.

The ultimate control over your life is in your hands. I chose to live this life, I chose to be with my Master. the control he has over me is because I made the choice to gave him the right to that control. I also have the choice to walk away if I feel him and the relationship is not what I want or isn't good for me. If I have issues with something, something about him, about the relationship we talk about it. No one is a hostage to their Dom/me.

Whether or not intense sessions causes damage over time, that's individual to each person. I've been involved almost my whole adult life and I am not damage at all from it. How often we engage in intense bdsm sessions varies.

Being made to do things you don't like and made to suffer or be humiliated. I do things he tells me to do that I don't like doing but I don't suffer because of it or feel humiliated by doing them. He loves me, he wants me to be happy, he wouldn't want me to suffer or feel humiliated. The only humiliation is when he uses some form of humiliation as discipline occasionally but afterwards we always talk and cuddle. Even in vanilla relationships, partners do things for the other that they might not like doing.

I have my own attitude and opinion, he values my thoughts and wants to hear them. For some things his decision is final, with some things he wants me to decide or depending on what decisions are to be made, he will give me a few choices. Many personal decisions for myself, I make the decision.

You find someone you're compatible with, someone who wants the same things in a relationship that you want. When all is said and done, you do have control over your life, if you find a Dom/me that's interested in you, you decide whether or not they and the relationship is the right one for you.



DesFIP -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (4/22/2014 2:13:22 PM)

It's not about being a submissive. It's about being his submissive.
I didn't try to accept that I'm submissive. Only that if I ever met the right man, I could then allow myself to be his.
The point you've overlooked is that the only one who can decide what is needed in the other person for them to be your one, is you.
So if you need her to be someone with a graduate degree in order for you to respect her, so be it. If you need her to be someone who puts her elderly parent first, as do you, then you need that.

Figure out what you need in the other person in order for you to respect and esteem them, and screen for those qualities.



FightingChains -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (4/22/2014 3:10:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
Secondly, go watch the movie "Elysium" out on DVD. Matt Damon's character is a heroic male submissive type caught up in futuristic social dystopia.


Damn, how did I miss that? I love that movie, and that character... explains a lot about why my partner is generally a natural submissive!

Lec, I think the biggest piece of advice I can give you is... be who you are, and find someone with a personality that fits with you.

I'm naturally a dominant type, but I would NEVER identify as a "Dom". My partner is naturally a submissive type, but he would NEVER identify as a submissive. He just prefers to let the relationship take it's course. We don't engage in "power exchange" or D/s, or anything like that. Our personalities just work together, we don't think or structure, we don't be or do anything, we just are. I tend to take a lead, I'm more assertive, I'm more outspoken. He's quieter, prefers me to take the lead more, and he doesn't like decisions too much. He likes his confident, outspoken partner.

In BDSM, I'm a sadomasochist tending towards masochist, and he's a sadist. (I know, right? I found a submissive sadist... very odd indeed) I tend to bottom in our kinky activities. I get forcefully tortured, and it's something that he really enjoys because he knows he has control.

You don't have to engage in BDSM, or D/s, or anything else. Just be who you are, do what you want, be your own type of submissive if you prefer for the woman to take the lead.



bowedB4Women -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (4/26/2014 7:16:48 PM)

In my life I'm not submissive. I'm social, but have my own ideas, and the confidence to execute them. ( granted I struggle around women due to my submissive ideology that I cannot share ) I also have a strong urge to resist unjust control, ( or attempts to unjustly control ) and can do that effectively.

It is like having a dark secret. To share something like that does allude to weakness, also is very far from the norm no matter what social circle your traveling.

To me I just love women just like any other man. So what I happen to be a freak! Lol!



metamorfosis -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (4/29/2014 3:28:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lec

...I think for doms it's easier to accept their identity, because being dom is in many ways self-affirming, self-serving stance which can give you direct benefit of service from your subs, plus you don't expose yourself to as much risks as a sub.

I disagree. I suspect many dominants or sadists experience guilty feelings associated with "being an asshole". And I think dominants expose themselves to every bit as much risk as subs.

Also for female subs it's easier to accept their identity, because it's in some way close to traditional role of a woman, and not so subversive.

Totally agree.

Plus, male doms, as someone said in a different topic can be more protective, gentler and less demanding, because women are more fragile, and there is always this instinct to protect someone you feel is weaker physically.

Totally agree.

On the other hand, being a male submissive is completely opposite of the usual male gender role, and also, being a sub, or slave, to me seems a bit like self-defeating, self-negating and self-sabotaging life stance.

Totally agree. Of the 4 orientations, male subs have the most negative image.

Here is the list of concerns that I have regarding being a sub:

- Feeling isolated from the rest of the world and the mainstream culture...

That one's tough. Maybe try looking at it like a cool subculture instead?

OK; I guess all of my concerns probably apply only to more extreme relationships with lots of S/M and with elements of TPE. I guess in more mild D/s relationship i could still thrive.

I don't doubt it.




metamorfosis -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (4/29/2014 3:31:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bowedB4Women

In my life I'm not submissive. I'm social, but have my own ideas, and the confidence to execute them. ( granted I struggle around women due to my submissive ideology that I cannot share ) I also have a strong urge to resist unjust control, ( or attempts to unjustly control ) and can do that effectively.

It is like having a dark secret. To share something like that does allude to weakness, also is very far from the norm no matter what social circle your traveling.

To me I just love women just like any other man. So what I happen to be a freak! Lol!


Very cool 35th post.



metamorfosis -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (4/29/2014 3:33:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lec

Let's say I have a submissive personality. I was never a leader of the crowd, never too aggressive or assertive, and I was in many cases more of a follower. I am a bit of a typical "nice guy". Also, I think that pleasing my woman would make me happy and it doesn't have to be any kinky way of pleasing her but it can also be normal practical stuff, that's not sexualized in any way. Let's also say the idea of sexual submission, and many other things related to BDSM turn me on.

I did watch some femdom porn, but I am not in any way obsessed with fantasies. My kinks and fetishes are few and mild. I am generally a logical person, and very grounded in reality...


Very cool 26th post.



DanielleofMists -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (5/1/2014 11:22:44 PM)

I'll try to address some of your list of concerns:

- Feeling isolated from the rest of the world and the mainstream culture.
I'm still very part of the world and mainstream culture. I buy groceries, go to appointments, run errands, visit with friends, meet people for coffee, work, eat out, attend community events etc. all while being a 24/7 slave in a strict power dynamic.

- Not being able to identify myself with characters in regular drama or romance movies, and therefore one sense of loneliness and detachment.
I've never identified with characters in romance movies or dramas, perhaps a real life person whom is living the kind of lifestyle you are curious about will help you get a better idea of the reality of it. Find someone you perceive as successful and thriving and watch them go about their day to day life and it might help you figure out where your interests lie and help you be able to have a more realistic idea of what life could look like. I suspect a real life person will help with those feelings of loneliness and detachment you describe.

- Not having control over my life (if you are owned as a slave, you can't make choices) - So I could thrive only in a relationship in which I do serve, and do engage in kink, but in which the ultimate control over my life is in my hands - so TPE is excluded
I make plenty of choices, I chose to be in this relationship, I choose to be loving and positive, I choose to obey the will of my master, I choose to live up to the protocols and rules set out for me- even when no one is watching, I choose to give my master all the information so he can make the best decisions for us, I choose to take responsibility over my health and well being so I'm the best I can be for us, i choose to be mindful... I think you get the drift, I make choices every day being mindful to obey the will of my master in a graceful way. Finding partners who want the same sort of level of kink/submission/power dynamic etc as you is pretty important to having a relationship where everyones needs are being met.

- Questioning how healthy it is to engage in frequent and intense sessions? (Does it over time taxes the body? Constant microtraumas on skin, constant psychological roller-coasters, with adrenaline, dopamine and endorphins - simply STRESS that is result of intense sessions, subspace, subdrop, etc...) Does it drain and exhaust body and mind? Does it cause accumulation of small damages to health and psyche, to body and mind over time?
Well I would like more play so I don't think there could be too much ;-) Seriously though, it would depend on the kind of and intensity of play on whether it would be hard on the body or not. Play is our fun, our release from the daily grind, we often experience cathartic releases. For me it recharges the batteries and reinforces our connection and energy. Granted there are some plays sessions that my body is well used and worked over and it would be my preference to let some healing take place, he also wants me in working condition so he chooses not to do harm.

- Having too often to accept things that I don't want to do and that make me suffer. Or that make me feel really humiliated, not in a good or kinky way. (If they make all decisions...)
Again this goes back to choosing a partner where you share kinks or have a similar view or can compromise at minimum, so that everyone is getting their needs met (both people). As a slave there are going to be times where I am required to do something that's not high on my list of favourite things (not much different than the real world) and sometimes you just gotta suck it up. This comes back to the choices part, I chose to enter into this power dynamic and relationship knowing that there were going to be times that challenged me, but what I gain from this relationship far outweighs the "hard stuff"

- It goes against some of my ideals of freedom, of having my own attitude and my own opinion on everything.
Well lots of soul searching and real time experience to learn what makes you tick, figuring out what you will or will not do, lots of communicating your needs and wants. I will tell you that once you find the perfect person for you, you will never be more free.


- OK; I guess all of my concerns probably apply only to more extreme relationships with lots of S/M and with elements of TPE. I guess in more mild D/s relationship i could still thrive.
Your concerns were valid coming from the place you are in. If you don't have examples of thriving happy relationships that are made up of power dynamic and SM dynamic that you are interested in, it can be overwhelming and over load. In the beginning while i was deciding whether this was the right relationship for me, I had to be very conscious of getting that "feeling" and I'd try to make sure i got an answer I needed to be sure this was the best relationship for me (and us).



LadyLucan -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (5/2/2014 5:00:28 AM)

Dobar Dan Lec

I have read a number of your posts with interest as for me they encapsulate the anxieties of male subs 'coming out' in societies which are hostile to non-macho versions of masculinity.

I agree with other posters that you are 'overthinking' your situation (though this would not be the term I would use) which to me implies that you are not ready to relinquish much, if any, control yet. In my view the key point about D/s relationships, the reason I pursue them in fact, is that limits, boundaries and etiquette are negotiated by both D and s in the real-life context. Consent underpinning all interaction considerably lessens the likelihood of unintended harm.

Good luck in your search.



vestigialwilly -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (5/9/2014 4:31:00 AM)

I know some say you are "over thinking" it, but as I tend to be a thinker I completely understand your struggles. For me the challenge is mixing of some parts of life where I have to exert dominant parts of the character (such as work) with other areas where settling into an openly submissive role is much easier.
In the end we all come to our own conclusions - I am a great believe we all just "are", try to stop worrying about labels and perhaps instead direct that thought to how your character and roles can enhance your life.



Lohea -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (5/13/2014 2:49:43 AM)

I'm mostly submissive and have been my entire life, but I still struggle with what that means, with the WRONG person.

I find that if I'm speaking to somebody I don't click with, I begin questioning myself. Eventually the relationship, whatever type of relationship it was, crumbles.

The moment I begin to speak with somebody who is on the same page as me, though, things become more clear.

A Dom[me] is somebody who can guide you to be the person you desire to be deep inside. Not somebody who forces you into uncomfortable situations. So if that's your worry, then understand that, that situation isn't the 'norm'.

You don't need to be fully involved in the BDSM community or have a lot of crazy kinks to be considered submissive, and likewise you don't need to be considered overly kinky just because you want to lick ketchup off of somebody's buttcrack.

Not all 'followers' in this life are submissives. You may very well be desiring a relationship where the woman is more in control than you are, which is fair enough. If that's the case, saying you're looking for a 'strong woman' may be something that attracts the type of lady you're searching for.

If being submissive feels wrong to you, then it may not be for you. Being involved in D/s for those who are suited for the lifestyle is something that comes naturally. Although your qualms may be based in social stigmas about BDSM and what role a male should play in society, so that's another thing to consider.

It could by psychological in the sense that you aren't necessarily a D/s submissive, but more of a follower, or it could be that the world is telling you 'a man needs to lead' and you're just not comfortable with that.

On your question about how healthy BDSM is for the body, it depends on you, the consent, who is controlling you... and why. Of course it's mentally exhausting being a submissive and a Dominant, but that's something we're searching for. It's also a release, at the same time. It's a welcomed challenge... and as they say, time you enjoy wasting is not time wasted.

Submissives and slaves are still very much able to express themselves and have freedom, so long as that is the type of relationship they signed up for and they aren't in an abusive relationship.

Lastly, it may or may not be easier for a Dom to accept who they are than it is for a submissive. It can be equally difficult admitting that you enjoy humiliating, degrading, abusing, diapering or coddling another human when society is telling you it's wrong... or that liking such things means you're a serial killer in the making. Not all Dom's have a sense of what they are from a young age, they may only understand that they enjoy having power... or giving orders. Being told they're leaders and not followers.



cloudboy -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (5/28/2014 9:47:39 PM)


I think there a lot of disadvantages to the orientation. If ever you feel particularly discouraged or hopeless, just think about the guys with super unpopular interests like diapers.

To compensate for the S&M hole you might feel, try to live a full, diversified life.

If you remain cool and interesting -- you just might get lucky.



Spiritedsub2 -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (5/28/2014 10:32:09 PM)

Lohea, I thought yours was a really insightful post. It helped me reading it.



slaveoubliette -> RE: Why am I still struggling with accepting my identity as submissive? (6/7/2014 4:52:02 PM)

well honesty with self I think leads much more quickly to acquiring what you want. It is easy to label yourself with a pronoun and than try to live that pronoun. I think it is much better to simply try the lifestyle out in an honest open way and see if you are what you think you are. Don't become something you think others want... that is a very poor thing to do..

Thank you



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