RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/25/2014 8:46:36 AM)

quote:

Of course not. Because you're not really interested in peace. You're not really interested in stopping pedophilia. You're only interested in expanding the uma - the muslim world. And that's the reason for the Blair witch hunt.

Expanding the uma? What a crock-of-shit hindsight rationalization for the needless, unjustified, immoral, lying motherfucker war waged by BushCheney and Blair on Iraq in violation of the UN Charter.




Phydeaux -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/25/2014 8:48:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Of course not. Because you're not really interested in peace. You're not really interested in stopping pedophilia. You're only interested in expanding the uma - the muslim world. And that's the reason for the Blair witch hunt.

Expanding the uma? What a crock-of-shit hindsight rationalization for the needless, unjustified, immoral, lying motherfucker war waged by BushCheney and Blair on Iraq in violation of the UN Charter.


Quote me.

Quote me the UN Charter where its a violation. Once again you're wrong. Wrong on the facts and so blatantly wrong on Blair its comical.

Hence "Blair witch hunt".




kdsub -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/25/2014 11:35:07 AM)

quote:

lying motherfucker war waged by BushCheney and Blair


Vince my position all along...even when it was not popular... was that we were dead wrong in invading Iraq, at least the second time. But I believe that Bush was sincere in his beliefs that Iraq was harboring terrorists involved in 9/11... Faulty intelligence and a hidden desire to correct his father mistake contributed to his decision as well. Then when the true facts were uncovered he tried to hide them to save face but by doing so killed many American boys and girls and even more Iraq's.

There is a difference in making a mistake and covering up... and purposely lying to the American people. Both of course are deplorable but to different degrees criminal.

Many want to blame a political party...and many outside of America want to blame all Americans... but only Bush was at fault... the rest of us were only acting on false or mistaken information.

Butch




vincentML -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/25/2014 11:53:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Of course not. Because you're not really interested in peace. You're not really interested in stopping pedophilia. You're only interested in expanding the uma - the muslim world. And that's the reason for the Blair witch hunt.

Expanding the uma? What a crock-of-shit hindsight rationalization for the needless, unjustified, immoral, lying motherfucker war waged by BushCheney and Blair on Iraq in violation of the UN Charter.


Quote me.

Quote me the UN Charter where its a violation. Once again you're wrong. Wrong on the facts and so blatantly wrong on Blair its comical.

Hence "Blair witch hunt".


Chapter VII, article 39

The Security Council shall determine the existence of any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression and shall make recommendations, or decide what measures shall be taken in accordance with Articles 41 and 42, to maintain or restore international peace and security.

The US and UK went to war with a 'coalition of the willing' and without a UN SC resolution that Iraq was a threat to peace, etc., notwithstanding the fact that both aggressor nations were signatures to the UN Charter. Harry Truman clearly established the precedent which BushCheneyBlair violated.




vincentML -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/25/2014 12:06:25 PM)

quote:

Faulty intelligence and a hidden desire to correct his father mistake contributed to his decision as well. Then when the true facts were uncovered he tried to hide them to save face but by doing so killed many American boys and girls and even more Iraq's.

The nuclear arms inspection team reported back to the Security Council that Iraq was not storing WMD's before the invasion, Butch. And when Bush later accepted the truth he made a joke of looking under the bed for WMDs. Despicable behavior. Colin Powell knew. He just didn't have the balls to step back from the lame speech he gave at the UN.

BushCheneyRumsfeldRicePowellWolfowitzBlair = war criminals.




Phydeaux -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/25/2014 1:02:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Of course not. Because you're not really interested in peace. You're not really interested in stopping pedophilia. You're only interested in expanding the uma - the muslim world. And that's the reason for the Blair witch hunt.

Expanding the uma? What a crock-of-shit hindsight rationalization for the needless, unjustified, immoral, lying motherfucker war waged by BushCheney and Blair on Iraq in violation of the UN Charter.


Quote me.

Quote me the UN Charter where its a violation. Once again you're wrong. Wrong on the facts and so blatantly wrong on Blair its comical.

Hence "Blair witch hunt".


Chapter VII, article 39

The Security Council shall determine the existence of any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression and shall make recommendations, or decide what measures shall be taken in accordance with Articles 41 and 42, to maintain or restore international peace and security.

The US and UK went to war with a 'coalition of the willing' and without a UN SC resolution that Iraq was a threat to peace, etc., notwithstanding the fact that both aggressor nations were signatures to the UN Charter. Harry Truman clearly established the precedent which BushCheneyBlair violated.


Saying what the security Council is entitled to do under the Un charter is not the same as saying what member nations are prescribed from doing, now is it?

Ie. No violation.





DomKen -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/25/2014 2:26:14 PM)

Phydeaux is making shit up, again.

Chapter I (most specifically article 2: "All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.")
Chapter VI (the US utterly failed to abide by this one)




igor2003 -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/25/2014 2:53:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Faulty intelligence and a hidden desire to correct his father mistake contributed to his decision as well. Then when the true facts were uncovered he tried to hide them to save face but by doing so killed many American boys and girls and even more Iraq's.

The nuclear arms inspection team reported back to the Security Council that Iraq was not storing WMD's before the invasion, Butch. And when Bush later accepted the truth he made a joke of looking under the bed for WMDs. Despicable behavior. Colin Powell knew. He just didn't have the balls to step back from the lame speech he gave at the UN.

BushCheneyRumsfeldRicePowellWolfowitzBlair = war criminals.


Several years ago I was watching a news program. It was so long ago that I no longer remember which program it was, or who was being interviewed. But the story they were talking about concerned one of Bush' early cabinet members that didn't remain in his cabinet too long. That cabinet member had stated in an interview that one of Bush' first directives to his cabinet was to "find a way to get us into Iraq".

This story may not be true. I have tried to look it up a number of times, with no success. But considering the way things worked out, I have to think there is at least a little truth to it. If anyone else has heard about this I'd like to get more information.




Politesub53 -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/25/2014 4:51:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Go for it, Phydeaux! Let's arrest Tweakabelle for war crimes!


What on earth for? She's spouts things that readily identifiable as lunacy and helps discredit left arguments. As far as I'm concerned she should be given a microphone and a stage.

Its the lefties here, that can't win the war of ideas, that want to shut people up....


Lmfao....... here we go again with the bullshit notion that anyone who doesnt agree with dawggie is a leftie.

Get your head outta your arse and you might spot I am far from a leftie while Blair is. But hey, lets not stop your constant Islamophobic bollocks either.






virginfootslave -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/25/2014 4:53:36 PM)

It's a must watch, I guarantee laugh lol

Tony Blair: ‘I say lies’ – Cassetteboy’s video mashup of Bloomberg speech

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2014/apr/25/tony-blair-cassetteboy-video-mashup-bloomberg-speech





Politesub53 -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/25/2014 4:59:20 PM)

Igor....... I think you are talking about Paul O`Neil.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bush-sought-way-to-invade-iraq/




tweakabelle -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/25/2014 11:30:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Go for it, Phydeaux! Let's arrest Tweakabelle for war crimes!

It's a fair cop, guv! Now where is my ticket to The Hague please? Best make it a return too![sm=cheering.gif]




tweakabelle -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/26/2014 12:10:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
We get that you want to tear down the whole western order tweak.

What? Poor little meeeeeee? Destroy Western civilisation all on my ownio??? You flatter me!

quote:

Fortunately,we're not quite so idiotic as you think.

You might benefit from obtaining a second opinion about that.

quote:

The idea of 'universal jurisdiction' is simply laughable.
The UCC has no jurisdiction in the US, China, Russia, venezuela, cuba, Iran, North Korea or in dozens of dictatorships.


As my previous post made crystal clear it is an established principle of international law following the Pinochet case. You mightn't like it but that doesn't alter its status. It remains an established principle of international law whether you like it or not. However reacting with blanket denial to anything they dislike tells us a lot about an individual.

quote:

As for Blair being a war criminal - thats just leftist wet dreams.

Lets engage, for a minute, and entertain your farce. What exact war crimes do you charge Blair with?
Did he give the order for the elimination of a race? Torture millions?

What exact crime - other than not being left - do you accuse him of?

Crimes against humanity arising out of the Iraq disaster.

quote:

And when we talk about crimes against humanity you and gotsteel gleefully call for the prosecution of catholic bishops but won't condemn muslim pedophilia.
So who do you think is guilty of a bigger crime against humanity? Harmid Karzai who has done nothing to surpress Basha boys in Afghanistan (one million current cases) or Blair?
How about Khomeini? Iran's leader allows the marriage of 'adopted' girls under 13 - some as young as 9. And as an aside authorized the payment of $25000 per incident of suicide bombers against Israel. In the Iran/Iraq war, they rounded up dissidents and used them as a human shield for the Iranian army. Tens of thousands of marsh muslims, kurds, and christians. Think that qualifies?
How about Kim jung XXX. You know. The guy that's starving hundred of thousands of his countrymen?
How about China - you know - surpressing the daila llama. Mongolians. Tibetans. Forcing abortions on hundreds of thousands of women every year. You think they might qualify?


My! You really have gotten your knickers all in a twist haven't you? So much so that you forgot to blame me for international drug dealing ... an unforgiveable lapse on your part. Please don't make this mistake again.

All this muck raking simply because some others and I have had the temerity to shine a light on the Catholic Church's indefensible record on its sexual abuse crisis on another thread. A record that you have chosen to defend for reasons best known to yourself, but which must be unrelated to reality for the Church's record of criminal culpability in this area is indefensible.

quote:

Of course not. Because you're not really interested in peace. You're not really interested in stopping pedophilia. You're only interested in expanding the uma - the muslim world. And that's the reason for the Blair witch hunt.


Are you sure that you are not considering a career in stand up comedy? This is so pathetic it's laughable. The idea that I would promote any organised religion is hilarious. And in my low opinion of organised religion generally, Islam comes pretty close to the bottom of that list.

One again you lash out with a wild unsubstantiated charge to deflect attention from the poverty of your own position.

Most countries around the world simply want to be left to their own devices, their own way of doing things without outside interference. The Islamic nations are no different in this regard. For as long as foreign Western armies are invading and occupying their part of the world there will be war and violence. In this matter, we in the West are the aggressors the invaders the oppressers.

To insist that the West stops intervening and imposing its will and ways on non-Western nations and peoples is to advance the causes of peace, justice and human rights and to oppose militarism and aggression. To argue against this proposition is to support warmongering and aggression.

Each and every nation has the right to choose its own way and the right to be free from outside intervention denying them that right, You wouldn't accept foreigners invading the US and forcing an alien way of life upon Americans. Please accord to others the rights you insist on for yourself. It's as simple as that. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' works on an international level just as much as it works on a personal level.




HappyServings -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/26/2014 12:39:29 AM)

quote:

To insist that the West stops intervening and imposing its will and ways on non-Western nations and peoples is to advance the causes of peace, justice and human rights and to oppose militarism and aggression. To argue against this proposition is to support warmongering and aggression.

Each and every nation has the right to choose its own way and the right to be free from outside intervention denying them that right


These two statements are completely contradictory. If you support a nation's right to absolute self-determination then you have to support its right to use its armed forces as it chooses without external pressure for bodies such as the UN.




tweakabelle -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/26/2014 12:52:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HappyServings

quote:

To insist that the West stops intervening and imposing its will and ways on non-Western nations and peoples is to advance the causes of peace, justice and human rights and to oppose militarism and aggression. To argue against this proposition is to support warmongering and aggression.

Each and every nation has the right to choose its own way and the right to be free from outside intervention denying them that right


These two statements are completely contradictory. If you support a nation's right to absolute self-determination then you have to support its right to use its armed forces as it chooses without external pressure for bodies such as the UN.

I'm not sure what your point is - you post came across to me as quite confused.

If you are suggesting that any country can choose to use its armed forces any way it chooses. including aggressively (ie. to invade another country) following from its right to self determination then I'm afraid you are completely wrong. This would contravene the other country's sovereignty and own right to self determination.

A country's right to use its armed forces as it chooses starts and stops with that country's borders. Beyond its borders this right ceases to have any validity. A country may deploy its armed forces outside its borders only with the agreement and free consent of the country where it wishes to deploy its armed forces, or by specific authorisation of the UN Security Council, or in self-defence, to prevent it being invaded, when and only when there is a real and immediate danger of it being invaded.




HappyServings -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/26/2014 1:01:33 AM)

If it's exclusively inward, then it's not true self-determination. It has to include the ability to act on the world stage. We live in an age of realpolitik where it's sometimes necessary to disregard morality and take actions that benefit our nation even at the expense of another. Invading a sovereign nation on shady pretenses might be unethical, but it's not grounds for war crimes. British and American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are not under any definition committing war crimes.




tweakabelle -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/26/2014 1:14:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HappyServings

If it's exclusively inward, then it's not true self-determination. It has to include the ability to act on the world stage. We live in an age of realpolitik where it's sometimes necessary to disregard morality and take actions that benefit our nation even at the expense of another. Invading a sovereign nation on shady pretenses might be unethical, but it's not grounds for war crimes. British and American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are not under any definition committing war crimes.

Invading another country without the express permission of the UN Security Council is a lot more than 'unethical; it is a war crime in itself and a flagrant contravention of international law. Actions undertaken by countries on 'the world stage' are subject to international law and UN Security Council authorisation. Unilateral aggression outside these boundaries is not permitted, so your claim fails.

As the 'coalition of the willing' invaded Iraq without the express authorisation of the UN Security Council, it was an illegal war. Actions taken in pursuance of an illegal invasion are of course war crimes too.

That aside, there were plenty of individual war crimes committed by foreign troops in Iraq. Abu Ghraib is perhaps the most well known, but the kind of wholesale butchery carried out by US and UK troops at Fallujah would qualify as war crimes whatever the other circumstances.




HappyServings -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/26/2014 1:35:54 AM)

Please read the following: War Crime definition

And note that:

A) Declaring war unilaterally is not a war crime
B) Murder, rape and torture have been committed by UK/US troops and these are isolated tragedies by lone actors. Abu Ghraib was a scandal and it was abuse but it was not sanctioned. For nations to be found guilty of these war crimes it had to have "been part of a plan or policy or on a large scale".

This is why Blair hadn't been dragged before a tribunal, and why he shouldnt.




evesgrden -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/26/2014 1:37:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

As for Blair being a war criminal - thats just leftist wet dreams.



Wrong.

I don't think Blair is a war criminal.
I'm on the left.







thishereboi -> RE: War criminal Blair calls for more wars . and war crimes (4/26/2014 5:56:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

As for Blair being a war criminal - thats just leftist wet dreams.



Wrong.

I don't think Blair is a war criminal.
I'm on the left.







I don't think he is either and I am on the right. (or in the middle depending on who you ask)

But to some of the posters on here anyone who disagrees with them automatically falls on the other side. This is why we have some idiots who run around and call Heritic and K rightists while other idiots call PS a leftist. They aren't going to let facts get in the way of their rants.




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