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Coming to an Election near you - 4/27/2014 2:18:24 PM   
jlf1961


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Or maybe not.

It seems that the GOP candidate for Governor has decided that the BLM is the perfect rallying cry.

quote:

AUSTIN - On the heels of an armed standoff between federal land managers and ranchers in Nevada, Texas politicos on both sides of the aisle this week are beating their chests over what the U.S. Bureau of Land Management says is a routine review of federal lands along the Red River.

Republican Attorney General Greg Abbott led the charge, suggesting the BLM, the political right's newest federal bogeyman, is poised to try to seize up to 90,000 acres from private landowners along a 116-mile stretch of the river that forms the natural boundary between Texas and Oklahoma.

"Private landowners in Texas have owned, maintained, and cultivated this land for generations," Abbott wrote in a letter to BLM Principal Deputy Director Neil Kornze on Tuesday. "Despite the long-settled expectations of these hard-working Texans along the Red River, the BLM appears to be threatening their private property rights by claiming ownership over this territory. Yet, the BLM has failed to disclose either its full intentions or the legal justification for its proposed actions. Decisions of this magnitude must not be made inside a bureaucratic black box."
Source


Since he sorta last a bit of ground when his preferred spokesman referred to President Obama as a subhuman mongrel, Abbot has been coming out hard on perceived gun ownership threats, Obamacare, and a number of other things.

However, the standoff in Nevada has given his campaign a new boogy man.

The Obama administration wants to take land from Texas ranchers.

Doesn't matter if it isn't true.

_____________________________

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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/27/2014 2:25:45 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Or maybe not.
It seems that the GOP candidate for Governor has decided that the BLM is the perfect rallying cry.
quote:

AUSTIN - On the heels of an armed standoff between federal land managers and ranchers in Nevada, Texas politicos on both sides of the aisle this week are beating their chests over what the U.S. Bureau of Land Management says is a routine review of federal lands along the Red River.
Republican Attorney General Greg Abbott led the charge, suggesting the BLM, the political right's newest federal bogeyman, is poised to try to seize up to 90,000 acres from private landowners along a 116-mile stretch of the river that forms the natural boundary between Texas and Oklahoma.
"Private landowners in Texas have owned, maintained, and cultivated this land for generations," Abbott wrote in a letter to BLM Principal Deputy Director Neil Kornze on Tuesday. "Despite the long-settled expectations of these hard-working Texans along the Red River, the BLM appears to be threatening their private property rights by claiming ownership over this territory. Yet, the BLM has failed to disclose either its full intentions or the legal justification for its proposed actions. Decisions of this magnitude must not be made inside a bureaucratic black box."
Source

Since he sorta last a bit of ground when his preferred spokesman referred to President Obama as a subhuman mongrel, Abbot has been coming out hard on perceived gun ownership threats, Obamacare, and a number of other things.
However, the standoff in Nevada has given his campaign a new boogy man.
The Obama administration wants to take land from Texas ranchers.
Doesn't matter if it isn't true.


Here's the potential difference between this and the Nevada event: If he's correct in his assertion that "private landowners in Texas have owned" that land for generations, then the government can't just waltz in and say they own it. If there is legal claim by private Texas landowners to that property, the government certainly will have to provide legal justification for the assumption of that land.

Now, Abbott could be wrong, and he could be attempting to support "squatter's rights" for the Texans, but it's too early to tell at this point. While the BLM/government can take property from private citizens, there is a legal process for it, and that does have requirements for it to happen.


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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/27/2014 7:41:35 PM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
...he could be attempting to support "squatter's rights" for the Texans, but it's too early to tell at this point.

That's kind of what I was thinking but doesn't squatter's rights require that the property be either lived on or maintained by the squatter? And does grazing cattle qualify as either?

_____________________________

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"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/27/2014 10:38:27 PM   
joether


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Seems the amount of known information to be a critical problem in this thread. From what I understand, BLM is only looking into the information without direct and publically aired desire to take such land. So that would leave this 'Abbot' character using the typical GOP/TP tactic: FEAR, FEAR, FEAR! Or more to the point: Fear & Ignorance. A well informed public would see right through this charlatan as a trouble maker rather than someone trying to fix the problem. As I said, not enough good information is reaching the public; this would be the responsibility of the media (regardless of political leanings).

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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/27/2014 10:50:27 PM   
DaddySatyr


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Is there a source available where I don't have to invite tons of spam to my e-mail inbox?

I did a yahoo search but this was the only source I found.







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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/27/2014 11:51:11 PM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
... that would leave this 'Abbot' character using the typical GOP/TP tactic: FEAR, FEAR, FEAR! Or more to the point: Fear & Ignorance.

Or he just might be a typical politician that happens to be a Pub in this case.




< Message edited by RottenJohnny -- 4/28/2014 12:00:30 AM >


_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/28/2014 6:58:04 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
...he could be attempting to support "squatter's rights" for the Texans, but it's too early to tell at this point.

That's kind of what I was thinking but doesn't squatter's rights require that the property be either lived on or maintained by the squatter? And does grazing cattle qualify as either?


According to his claim, the landowners own and maintain the land, so, there is maintenance of the land, if his claim is correct.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/28/2014 8:51:25 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
... that would leave this 'Abbot' character using the typical GOP/TP tactic: FEAR, FEAR, FEAR! Or more to the point: Fear & Ignorance.

Or he just might be a typical politician that happens to be a Pub in this case.


I live in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Politicians that think the public is ignorant and uneducated, rarely stay in public office long (i.e. former. Sen. Scott Brown). Elizabeth Warren, another "...politician..." actually wants people informed. An informed, educated, intelligent and wise citizenry, generally make good decisions. It really shows the true values of the Democrats and Republican/Tea Party in America. Democrats understand a population that is intelligent, educated, and wise, make good decisions most of the time. Republican/Tea Party, rely heavily on ignorance, racism, stupidity, foolishness, paranoia, and general lunacy; because an ignorant, uneducated, and stupid people are easy to control and enslave.

Go onto the Drudge Report. Count how many articles have 'Fear' as either a direct or indirect component of the 'story'. Then try any of those so called 'liberal media sites' (i.e. ones that don't push the conservative political agenda 24/7). Not often one sees fear as the direct or indirect factor for pushing the news.


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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/28/2014 3:49:18 PM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Democrats understand a population that is intelligent, educated, and wise, make good decisions most of the time. Republican/Tea Party, rely heavily on ignorance, racism, stupidity, foolishness, paranoia, and general lunacy; because an ignorant, uneducated, and stupid people are easy to control and enslave.

Joether, you always fail to see one thing about the shit you spew...your view is so narrow that the one who seems ignorant and uniformed is yourself. Why don't you take 2 minutes to consider that there is more to politics than "Dems are good, Pubs are bad". You sound like a fucking idiot.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to joether)
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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/28/2014 5:59:09 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Is there a source available where I don't have to invite tons of spam to my e-mail inbox?

I did a yahoo search but this was the only source I found.

Try this one
http://www.texastribune.org/2014/04/28/blurred-lines-texas-blm-spat-has-complicated-histo/

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/29/2014 6:51:26 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Democrats understand a population that is intelligent, educated, and wise, make good decisions most of the time. Republican/Tea Party, rely heavily on ignorance, racism, stupidity, foolishness, paranoia, and general lunacy; because an ignorant, uneducated, and stupid people are easy to control and enslave.

Joether, you always fail to see one thing about the shit you spew...your view is so narrow that the one who seems ignorant and uniformed is yourself. Why don't you take 2 minutes to consider that there is more to politics than "Dems are good, Pubs are bad". You sound like a fucking idiot.



If the view is narrow, it is no damnation. Question is whether or not there is veracity to that view.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/29/2014 8:33:06 AM   
thompsonx


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Joether, you always fail to see one thing about the shit you spew...your view is so narrow that the one who seems ignorant and uniformed is yourself.

Read back through your own post and see if this accusation does not fall equally upon yourself.


(in reply to RottenJohnny)
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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/29/2014 9:54:29 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Joether, you always fail to see one thing about the shit you spew...your view is so narrow that the one who seems ignorant and uniformed is yourself.

Read back through your own post and see if this accusation does not fall equally upon yourself.



Actually, I often wonder if I'm as bad as others around here and I'm sure someone will make the case that I am. So be it. But when I consider politics I at least proceed with the understanding that neither party has the patent on intelligence or wisdom. There's more to the world than red or blue.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/29/2014 10:02:37 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

If the view is narrow, it is no damnation. Question is whether or not there is veracity to that view.

There's nothing wrong with veracity until it runs into ill logic based on single-minded beliefs.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/29/2014 10:35:38 AM   
mnottertail


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I see no evidence of that, what double minded, or octo minded beliefs do you, the logicial, hold?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/29/2014 10:44:45 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Democrats understand a population that is intelligent, educated, and wise, make good decisions most of the time. Republican/Tea Party, rely heavily on ignorance, racism, stupidity, foolishness, paranoia, and general lunacy; because an ignorant, uneducated, and stupid people are easy to control and enslave.

Joether, you always fail to see one thing about the shit you spew...your view is so narrow that the one who seems ignorant and uniformed is yourself. Why don't you take 2 minutes to consider that there is more to politics than "Dems are good, Pubs are bad". You sound like a fucking idiot.


There is more to it. Yet, when I expand the list of 'good things Republican/Tea Party has done for this nation', I come up with a unsurprisingly small list. That the voters for that party keep giving them blank checks all the while slamming Democrats and the President every hour. Even for stuff that has nothing to do with either one. And that if these voters were to hold the Republican/Tea Party to the same level (if not twice that) to that of the Democrats, we would have better government almost overnight! And I say twice, because they are voting for those people. Would you vote your good name onto someone you didn't think could do a good job? Of course not!

Right now, Democrats seem to be the political party most in touch with the needs, wants, and aspirations of the American people. Yes, there are those that still support the even more insane and silly notions of the Republican/Tea Party. But for most Americans, they understand that Democrats seem to be championing causes that help, while Republican/Tea Party have done anything and everything to undermine this nation. Need some evidence?

Exhibit A: The Iraq War under former President George W. Bush.

A war we had no business getting into. Cost this nation $4 trillion dollars. 4,000 dead US Soldiers, 32,500 wounded US Soldiers. 100,000-600,000 Civilians injured or dead (depending on which new source you choose). We, the public were told that Osama bin Laden was working with Saddam Hussein (untrue). that Saddam had 'massive stockpiles' of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction (untrue). That he was going to invading his neighbors (untrue). That once we 'liberated' Iraq, would give the oil to the Iraq people to decide for themselves (untrue). Notice all the 'untrue' statements? Because fact and truth were not hallmarks of the Republican/Tea Party; nor are they today (anyone watching the misinformation machine on the ACA knows that).

Exhibit B: The Affordable Care Act under President Barrack Obama.

The original bill the President sent to Congress that would later become the ACA was much more well thought out. I unfortunately don't remember where I saved that pdf. It was attacked by the GOP/TP almost immediately, and great, grand majority of conservatives were completely in the dark on the document's content. However, conservatives were blasted 24/7 by conservative media sources of all sorts of bullshit and material that was not even in the document. At other times, they were....liberal....with the contend; taking things out of context was the norm rather than the exception. The changes the Democrats made were (mostly) acceptable, but it started to feel watered down. Then the President and Democrats had a Monday morning breakfast with Republicans. At that meeting (which was televised) the President asked those Republicans "What needs to be in the bill for you to vote 'aye' rather than 'nay'?". Later the Republicans and their Tea Party lackeys gave the Democrats a list of twelve odd items. Democrats grumbled and put those changes into the document; and further watering down the President's original bill. When the vote came up, ALL the Republican/Tea Party voted against the bill. Basically they went back on their word. You support those that go back on their word? To score political points while behaving dishonorably?

Exhibit C: The Deficit and Debt (not to mention taxes)

Following campaign promises in the 1999 run up to the election, the new President, Mr. G. W. Bush set about a series of five tax cuts. Three of them for all Americans and two for the upper 1% of Americans. While Republicans/Tea Party said this was to 'help the economy' and 'average Americans'. The REAL reason for this was to 'starve the beast' as Republicans put it. They believed Democrats would surrender and give in to demands to cut the budget or be blamed for the deficit that would ensure. The Republican/Tea Party folly? They placed the majority of cuts on things Democrats often protect; while cutting only a very tiny amount from Republican positions. Democrats dug in their heels and never retreated. An so the deficit emerged in 2000 and would grow with each year. The US Debt, thanks to that deficit would cease shrinking in 2000 and grow to an alarming $11.5 trillion by 2008. Of course, 2007 marks when the 'Great Recession' started.

Exhibit D: The Great Recession

Which leads us into this point. The Republican/Tea Party went about for a number of years, removing regulations and regulators in a move 'to make it easier for Americans to compete globally". Since the cost of a house in 'middle-of-nowhere' Kansas was directly effected by prices from around the globe, right? What is a regulation? A law. And why were those laws put in place by a previous few generations? To help prevent a behavior that would cause trouble to the country if that law was not present. Seems those older generations were correct and wise; as the events started to spiral out of control in 2006 and lead into 2007's Great Recession. Late 2006 marks the moment Democrats won back Congress. Of course, no one was really aware of all the damages about to take place in the country even with Democrats in that position. The tidal wave of effects had started back in 2004-2005....

Exhibit E: Aging Infrastructure Costs America More

When a bridge collapsed in Minnesota during the Bush Administration (I-35W Mississippi River Bridge) , there were many demanding funds for improvements on the nation's aging infrastructure. That we still use 1950's technology on our power grid is retarded. That this nation has done a poor job of maintaining the roads we use, the water passages shipping sails through, and a better air travel system is mind blowing. For air travel, nothing much will be done without some serious federal laws being updated. But spending money to improve the power and roadways of America would improve efficiency and create jobs. This was and has been opposed by the Republican/Tea Party on the grounds it 'helps Democratic causes'. So those brown outages this nation keeps experiencing in greater numbers each summer; is due to the Republican/Tea Party stalling actions to improve the whole system for America.

Exhibit F: The Partial Government Shutdown of November 2013.

This is a pretty recent event in America. Back in 2013, the Tea Party's Champion, Sen. Ted Cruz demanded that the budget would not be pass unless the Obama Administration agrees to kill a law in America. And not just any law, the Affordable Care Act. To help you understand the depth of this, try to imagine the following:

That things were reversed. Republicans were in control of the Senate and White House, while Democrats had the House and the US Supreme Court. And that Some Sen. Obama told President Cruz (....shutter...) that the budget will not be passed unless the 2nd amendment was removed.

Would you agree with it? Of course you would. You would have to. Otherwise your a HYPOCRIT!

So a partial government shutdown took place in the nation. Congressed moved quickly to restore some funding for the US Military, since they were effected by the shutdown. The industry most effected by this moment was the tourism business. All industries related to that industry were effected at different levels. National Parks were closed across the nation. There are many thousands of businesses that rely on those national parks being opened to operate in a profitable manner. Its estimate that the length of that shutdown cost the tourism business $18 billion. I imagine there are plenty of business people that will not be voting Republican/Tea Party for a long while.

This exhibit here, really does put the Republican/Tea Party view on full display. They are against America, against American's wallets, and have a viewpoint that is un-American. They wanted to drop the budget by about $900 Billion. Do you know how many US jobs are paid/purchased/maintained with jut $100 Billion in US Government money? No, you don't. Not even a clue. Depending on the industry, its between 750,000-950,000. Not all those people were paid the same amount either! That the public sector was the least of three groups getting this money; the private sector, the lion's share. Down stream jobs in the middle. So, tell me, how intelligent or wise is it to place ANOTHER few million people into the unemployment line....during a recession....and high unemployment? Because that was the Republican/Tea Party view.

Conclusion

I hit on just the major items. The Republican/Tea Party has plenty of secondary issues that have done America damage. Violations of the 1st, 4th, 5th, 8th amendments from the Bill of Rights? Suppressing the most important aspect of the US Constitution: the ability to vote unmolested by the US Government. Worrying about a pipeline that adds a few hundred jobs for a small amount of time, while giving many states the headaches of clean ups when it bursts. Or not able to create a better immigration policy. Should I add they have done much to undermine the VA Hospital system?

Your right, there is much more to politics than 'Dems good, GOP/TP' bad. Its that the number of bad things Republican/Tea Party have done, while not being held accountable and responsible with that power as Democrats/President have by conservatives/libertarians that vote them into office. If conservatives/libertarians were more sane, intelligent, educated and yes, wise; would we see the likes of Glenn Beck. Rush Limbaugh, or Sean Hannity on the airwaves? Would we see idiots like Sen. Ted Cruz and former Rep. Michelle Bachmann obtaining the power they have? Would we allow rich people like the Koch brothers to have such a free reign on politics over other average Americans? Or an industry that can dictate public policy to the citizens? No, no, no....and no.

My view is narrow, eh? Most Americans agree with me on many of the things above. Have Democrats done some stuff wrong? Of course they have, and generally are quick to apologize for it. I don't agree with the President on some stuff. Yet, I understand why he took the action(s) he did/had to. I have problems with President George W. Bush when he was in office. I have no problems with citizen, George W. Bush. Will you be able to say the same when President Obama leaves office? No, you cant. Why? I'm mature and a thinker, you are not.

What have the Republican/Tea Party done for this nation that is good? Shown us the sort of people that should NEVER have power in America.....EVER!

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/29/2014 11:07:44 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I see no evidence of that

Really?
quote:

Democrats understand a population that is intelligent, educated, and wise, make good decisions most of the time. Republican/Tea Party, rely heavily on ignorance, racism, stupidity, foolishness, paranoia, and general lunacy; because an ignorant, uneducated, and stupid people are easy to control and enslave.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
what double minded, or octo minded beliefs do you, the logicial, hold?

It isn't about "double" or "octo-minded". It's about "open-minded"
quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
...But when I consider politics I at least proceed with the understanding that neither party has the patent on intelligence or wisdom. There's more to the world than red or blue.

Now, does this mean I think I'm better or smarter than anyone else. No. Sometimes I'm surprised I manage to get my shoes tied in the morning. But I at least try to consider all the sides to an issue to form my opinion. I'm not so sure others do.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/29/2014 11:09:41 AM   
mnottertail


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What if there is no other side to the issue? For instance these nevadan terrorists?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/29/2014 11:26:32 AM   
RottenJohnny


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Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

What if there is no other side to the issue? For instance these nevadan terrorists?

I'm guessing you're talking about the Bundy incident but frankly, I haven't paid enough attention to it to really have much of an opinion about it. If I recall, I asked one question regarding squatter's rights and that's about as far as I went.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Coming to an Election near you - 4/29/2014 11:50:07 AM   
RottenJohnny


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Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I'm mature and a thinker, you are not.

Do you vote straight-ticket?

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 20
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