quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



The government's labeling of these groups as "domestic terrorists" is nothing more or less than an attempt to divert attention away from the elephant in the room, which is that the present Administration has come to be perceived as narcissistic, intrusive, and untrustworthy by increasing numbers of people.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



The government's labeling of these groups as "domestic terrorists" is nothing more or less than an attempt to divert attention away from the elephant in the room, which is that the present Administration has come to be perceived as narcissistic, intrusive, and untrustworthy by increasing numbers of people.

K.

My response to K's statement was that right wing extremism predates the Clinton administration.

The problem is that it is really hard to nail down the militia movement as totally right wing extremism. These groups have a distrust of the government even when there is a Republican administration in the white house.

The administration of Bush sr. took the initial moves that lead to the incident at Ruby Ridge, the Clinton administration prosecuted the group, and the result was a civil settlement in favor of the Weaver family and a separate settlement with Kevin Harris.

While it is true some of these groups take extreme racist views, many have the following in common.

1) Distrust of the federal government, regardless of which party is in power.
2) In general these groups are nationalists, basically promoting an America first agenda.
3) These groups also seem concerned with the possibility of a central world government, or the NWO.

Some of the more extreme groups support the "sovereign citizen" movement or the Posse Comitatus movement which opposes the federal government of the United States and believes in localism. There is no single national group, and local units are autonomous, which actually attracts some extremist on the left.

The truth is that distrust of the Federal government has grown on both sides of the fence.

My personal philosophy is more moderate than anything else at this point in time. I feel the Federal Government is too heavy with agencies that have overlapping areas of responsibility that have opposite goals.

The conservatives push for smaller government and pass laws in states that actually increase government involvement in the lives of average citizen, for example requiring women to have ultra sounds or other procedures prior to having an abortion.

The liberals want to increase spending in social areas while decreasing spending else where or raising taxes, while conservatives want to decrease spending on social programs and increase spending in other areas, both sides ignoring the declining condition of America's infrastructure, education system and other areas that need to be addressed.

Then both sides seem to take opposite extremes when it comes to the use of the military in foreign affairs. If the republicans call for military intervention, the democrats are against it, and the opposite is true when it is democrats calling for military action.

Seriously, how can anyone trust the government when both parties cant maintain a constant state on issues.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

A very...BRIEF....note by myself...

Trying to say conservatives and libertarians are moderates is amusing. What's wrong? Don't like being so close and huggable to the extreme right wingers that created 4/19/95? The ones that threaten our current President so often? The ones that show up at NRA conventions and say outlandish stuff that borderlines treason?

I'll have more later. Right now, I am off to perform a civil duty of holding up a sign for a candidate I want elected to public office. You know, what REAL American citizens do.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

His political commentaries are awful and rife with stupid platitudes and generalizations. In a recent post he went on about the "liberal attacks on religion."

The only thing you can really get on Liberals about is Obama care -- not cutting health care costs and adding regulations and bureaucracy to the system -- but a large portion of this is cluster fuck compromises with Republicans who opposed an efficient single payer system. Still, the play out of Obama care is unclear and early evidence is that the program is saving tax payer expenditures on Health care by lowering costs.

The right wing in the US has no real proposals for:

Immigration Reform (Rightists are bigoted and closed miinded here, sacrificing a chance to jump start the US economy. Business Republicans are handcuffed by tea party idiots. The size of Immigration Customs Enforcement and Border Protection embody big government almost more than any other US agency in existence.)

Health Care Reform (Rightist are only interested in Big Pharma, Insurance Companies, and Health Care providers.)

Deficit Reduction (Rightist won't raise taxes or cut defense spending. Leftists might be too inflexible about entitlement reform. Republicans have never been interested in a balanced budget ever since Ronald Reagan instituted borrow and spend policies. Deficit reduction now is really just an anti-Obama meme.)

Down sizing the Military (Not in the Rightist vocabulary.)

Environmental Protection (Not in the Rightist vocabulary.)

Consumer Protection (Not in the Rightist vocabulary.)

Financial Regulation (Not in the Rightist vocabulary.)

Income Inequality / Guilded Age (Republicans don't give a shit; wealth disparity gives them a hard on.)

Campaign Finance Regulation (Rightists want to dismantle it completely. For them money equals free speech. Big money is not synonymous with political influence and corruption.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



The government's labeling of these groups as "domestic terrorists" is nothing more or less than an attempt to divert attention away from the elephant in the room, which is that the present Administration has come to be perceived as narcissistic, intrusive, and untrustworthy by increasing numbers of people.

K.

My response to K's statement was that right wing extremism predates the Clinton administration.

The problem is that it is really hard to nail down the militia movement as totally right wing extremism. These groups have a distrust of the government even when there is a Republican administration in the white house.

The administration of Bush sr. took the initial moves that lead to the incident at Ruby Ridge, the Clinton administration prosecuted the group, and the result was a civil settlement in favor of the Weaver family and a separate settlement with Kevin Harris.

While it is true some of these groups take extreme racist views, many have the following in common.

1) Distrust of the federal government, regardless of which party is in power.
2) In general these groups are nationalists, basically promoting an America first agenda.
3) These groups also seem concerned with the possibility of a central world government, or the NWO.

Some of the more extreme groups support the "sovereign citizen" movement or the Posse Comitatus movement which opposes the federal government of the United States and believes in localism. There is no single national group, and local units are autonomous, which actually attracts some extremist on the left.

The truth is that distrust of the Federal government has grown on both sides of the fence.

My personal philosophy is more moderate than anything else at this point in time. I feel the Federal Government is too heavy with agencies that have overlapping areas of responsibility that have opposite goals.

The conservatives push for smaller government and pass laws in states that actually increase government involvement in the lives of average citizen, for example requiring women to have ultra sounds or other procedures prior to having an abortion.

The liberals want to increase spending in social areas while decreasing spending else where or raising taxes, while conservatives want to decrease spending on social programs and increase spending in other areas, both sides ignoring the declining condition of America's infrastructure, education system and other areas that need to be addressed.

Then both sides seem to take opposite extremes when it comes to the use of the military in foreign affairs. If the republicans call for military intervention, the democrats are against it, and the opposite is true when it is democrats calling for military action.

Seriously, how can anyone trust the government when both parties cant maintain a constant state on issues.

Kirata's quote also accurately describes both Bush administrations.

As to this dating to the Clintons, it actually goes back to the organized conservative reaction to FDR's New Deal, a fight that continues to this day.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

His political commentaries are awful and rife with stupid platitudes and generalizations. In a recent post he went on about the "liberal attacks on religion."

The only thing you can really get on Liberals about is Obama care -- not cutting health care costs and adding regulations and bureaucracy to the system -- but a large portion of this is cluster fuck compromises with Republicans who opposed an efficient single payer system. Still, the play out of Obama care is unclear and early evidence is that the program is saving tax payer expenditures on Health care by lowering costs.

The right wing in the US has no real proposals for:

Immigration Reform (Rightists are bigoted and closed miinded here, sacrificing a chance to jump start the US economy. Business Republicans are handcuffed by tea party idiots. The size of Immigration Customs Enforcement and Border Protection embody big government almost more than any other US agency in existence.)

Health Care Reform (Rightist are only interested in Big Pharma, Insurance Companies, and Health Care providers.)

Deficit Reduction (Rightist won't raise taxes or cut defense spending. Leftists might be too inflexible about entitlement reform. Republicans have never been interested in a balanced budget ever since Ronald Reagan instituted borrow and spend policies. Deficit reduction now is really just an anti-Obama meme.)

Down sizing the Military (Not in the Rightist vocabulary.)

Environmental Protection (Not in the Rightist vocabulary.)

Consumer Protection (Not in the Rightist vocabulary.)

Financial Regulation (Not in the Rightist vocabulary.)

Income Inequality / Guilded Age (Republicans don't give a shit; wealth disparity gives them a hard on.)

Campaign Finance Regulation (Rightists want to dismantle it completely. For them money equals free speech. Big money is not synonymous with political influence and corruption.)

Au contraire. It is so easy to get on liberals on a number of items.

Incompetency. Obama's feckless foreign policy is a case in point. Syria was nothing more than hokey-pokey.
You put your right foot in, you put your right foot out....

Abuse of power. Corruption. Aka, benghazi, IRS.

Cronyism: Aka exemptions to obamacare for unions. Buy out of GM.

Stupid: Surrender of Internet.

All of the above: Increased Patriot spying.