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Phydeaux -> Climate Fraud (5/7/2014 5:48:20 PM)

From: http://thefederalist.com/2014/05/06/climate-change-is-real-too-bad-accurate-climate-models-arent/


The Obama Administration released a new report on global cooling global warming climate change this week, and its findings and recommendations are about what you’d expect: conservatives are stupidheads who hate Science™, so give us eleventy trillion dollars.

From the Chicago Tribune:

The Obama administration Tuesday released an updated report on how climate change requires urgent action to counter impacts that touch every corner of the country, from oyster growers in Washington State to maple syrup producers in Vermont.

“Climate change, once considered an issue for a distant future, has moved firmly into the present,” the report said.

Unfortunately, climate models — ones that can accurately and consistently predict global temperatures in the not-so-distant future — simply don’t exist in the present. Indeed, for a group that so nakedly appeals to the authority of “consensus,” the faith-based global warming alarmist movement is shockingly impervious to the consensus of actual data:

Climate Model Comparison

I’ll see your “95 percent of scientists believe in global warming” talking point and raise you a “95 percent of reality thinks your climate models are garbage.” According to that chart of actual satellite and surface temperature observations vs. what was predicted by 90 different climate models, 95 percent of models overestimated actual temperatures. Nothing says Science™ like predicting stuff incorrectly over and over and over again.

And therein lies the real reason why so many global warming cultists are so desperate to change the terms of the debate. Rather than discuss the actual science, they’d rather marginalize anyone who disagrees with their policy prescriptions.

The global warming alarmists aren’t attempting to shut down debate because they’re worried the dissenters are wrong; the alarmists are attempting to shut down debate because they know their models are wrong, and they’d rather nobody focus on that inconvenient little fact.

As the old legal adage goes: When you have the facts, argue the facts; when you have the law, argue the law; when you have neither, just accuse your adversary of hating science and hope that nobody will listen to what they have to say about your consistently wrong forecasting models. And if that doesn’t work, blatantly manipulate and torture the English language and hope that nobody will notice.

Of course climate change — the notion that climates change over time, not the idea that we should spend a fortune futilely trying to change the weather — is real. Climates have changed consistently throughout the earth’s history. I am not aware of a single person who disagrees with the fact that climates change. Accusing someone of being a “climate denier” (does anyone on earth deny that climates exist?) doesn’t tell me that you’re awesome at science — it tells me that you’re awful at understanding what words mean.

And of course the earth has been gradually warming over the past 150+ years. That’s what happens when you emerge from a Little Ice Age, which lasted for hundreds of years and extended through the mid-19th century.

It is clearly possible (and quite common) to simultaneously believe that the earth is warming and that global warming cultists have utterly failed in their attempts to predict future climate changes.

I have a simple rule when it comes to people who want me to invest obscene sums of money in their forecasts of discrete future events: just be accurate. If you come to me and tell me you can predict future stock market performance based on these five factors, then you had better predict future stock market performance based on those five factors. All you have to do is be correct, over and over again. But if your predictive model is wrong, I’m not going to give you any money, and I’m certainly not going to pretend that what you just did is science. Any idiot can make incorrect guesses about the future.

Science, properly practiced, is the search for truth. Science, properly practiced, rejects forecasting models that consistently produce inaccurate forecasts. There’s nothing scientific about shouting down anyone who has the audacity to point out that the only thing your model can accurately predict is what the temperature won’t be.




Phydeaux -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/7/2014 5:51:52 PM)

Pretty picture, never successfully disputed:


[image]local://upfiles/11137/F86AD24CEB634F68BC43E9FAB61BDCD3.jpg[/image]




KYsissy -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/7/2014 6:00:20 PM)

When the science becomes dependent on funding that seeks a certain outcome, the science becomes suspect.

Or in a plain term, follow the money.




PeonForHer -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/7/2014 6:02:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KYsissy

When the science becomes dependent on funding that seeks a certain outcome, the science becomes suspect.

Or in a plain term, follow the money.


Yep. And the vast bulk of the money goes to the deniers. Of course.




Phydeaux -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/7/2014 6:02:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KYsissy

When the science becomes dependent on funding that seeks a certain outcome, the science becomes suspect.

Or in a plain term, follow the money.


Exactly. Ding ding ding ding we have a winner.




PeonForHer -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/7/2014 6:03:52 PM)

Well done, Phydeaux. You got there at long, long last. [:)]




dcnovice -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/7/2014 6:25:34 PM)

FR

[image]http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/16/36/5f/16365fd49803ce8f2f71c6f303089673.jpg[/image]




PeonForHer -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/7/2014 6:26:59 PM)

[:D] Excellent. Yes, that's about the size of it.




PeonForHer -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/7/2014 6:29:33 PM)

... But don't forget the cretins who watch and absorb the Word that is Fox News and love to brown-tongue those billionaires and oil companies.




KYsissy -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/7/2014 6:55:39 PM)

Interesting, so what deniers are getting this vast bulk of funding?




cloudboy -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/7/2014 7:16:09 PM)


Ultra left-wing News Paper reports otherwise:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2014/05/06/national-climate-assessment/8736743/

Report: Climate change is here and getting worse

"If people took the time to read the report, they would see that it is not necessarily about polar bears, whales or butterflies," said meteorologist Marshall Shepherd of the University of Georgia. "I care about all of those, but the NCA is about our kids, dinner table issues, and our well being."

"Climate change is here and now, and not in some distant time or place," agreed Texas Tech University climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe, one of the authors of the 800-page report. "The choices we're making today will have a significant impact on our future."

The assessment was prepared by hundreds of the USA's top scientists. It largely agrees with a recent report by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that found the planet is warming, mostly because of human activity.

-------

FIDO is looking more and more like a total CRACKPOT with his unsubstantiated views.




RottenJohnny -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/7/2014 11:09:09 PM)

FR

Is there anyone else out there that just doesn't give a fuck about this argument anymore?




PeonForHer -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/8/2014 4:09:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KYsissy

Interesting, so what deniers are getting this vast bulk of funding?


Here are three articles that point to the tip of the iceberg. The Koch brothers and ExxonMobil are just two of the ones who've been found out:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-12/21/denial

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2006/sep/19/ethicalliving.g2

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7538934/Oil-conglomerate-secretly-funds-climate-change-deniers.html




Yachtie -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/8/2014 4:49:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

FR

Is there anyone else out there that just doesn't give a fuck about this argument anymore?



Better than that even. I don't give a fuck about the alarmists either. [:D] No one I know even listens to those idiots anyway. A few make popcorn and laugh, but that's about it.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/8/2014 5:28:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

FR

Is there anyone else out there that just doesn't give a fuck about this argument anymore?

I've seen both sides of the argument and both sound just as (un)convincing as the other.

I spent a long time looking at theories that explain (or appear to) that the world is just going through another warming/cooling mini-cycle. Some of it made sense. Some of it is way over my head.
The same for the CO2 and pollution argument.

The way I see it is: we need trees and plants to recycle the CO2 back into oxygen for us to live.
So... plant as many trees and plants as is possible around the world and stop those countries exploiting the tropical forests that have kept this planet alive for millions of years.
Cut down on the industrial pollution caused by those countries in the top 5 pollution table. There shouldn't be any debate about it - just close down the industries causing the worst of it (and not just CO2 either) and find other ways round the problem.
Those two things in reasonable amounts will curtail a good proportion of human-induced climate change.
If it turns out it was a cyclical event?? Then there's not a shit-load we can do about it is there.

Beyond that??
Meh!! Won't affect me in what's left of my lifetime so I'm not worried too much.




Yachtie -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/8/2014 6:21:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Cut down on the industrial pollution caused by those countries in the top 5 pollution table. There shouldn't be any debate about it - just close down the industries causing the worst of it (and not just CO2 either) and find other ways round the problem.



Cutting pollution for its own sake is rational. It's facially sufficient itself with the caveat of cost effectiveness. Stopping the destruction of the tropical rain forests is also facially obvious given its importance to mankind in general.

What is not rational are the claims of accuracy of predictive models, and for lack of a better term, having reliance on Chaos. They have consistently failed.

There are, in the generalist sense, two camps. This article is not about the subject here, but has relevance as to leftist methodology and one observes it in leftist rhetoric.

In the U.S., the politics of the left versus the right rolls on with the predictability of traffic jams at the George Washington Bridge. It's a lot of honking. Until now. All of a sudden, the left has hit ramming speed across a broad swath of American life—in the universities, in politics and in government. People fingered as out of line with the far left's increasingly bizarre claims are being hit and hit hard.

It's obvious that the far left has decided there are no longer constraints on what it can do to anyone who disagrees with it. How did this happen? Who let the dogs out?


It doesn't matter the subject, only that one subscribe to leftist goodthink. To do otherwise is denier badthink, no matter the subject.

What's so interesting is that if the left were observably correct in its assessments, why so much denial (leftist label) by the opposition? Such denial (accurately skepticism) would be irrational if leftist claims are actually observable. This would be correct if the predictive models were actually accurate. Why has the left ramped it up so forcefully and loudly, using its tools at hand?

Simple. The vocal Left, best described as the Progressives and not the conservative liberal, is losing. Why are they losing? Simple. Their claims are not observable and are rationally... insane. Over the past 60 years the Left got installed the tools necessary for its agenda. What's happening is that the Left does not actually have the numbers, neither to its claims nor supporters. That great silent majority is waking up to that fact. The global climate change argument is a major plank of Progressiveness and it's being shown for what it is. Because of it, other Progressive planks are under scrutiny too, and should be. The Left wants desperately to shut that down. That will fail.

Now, if only people will also wake up to the chicanery of the Corporatist Wall Street loving globalist World Democracy Right neo-Cons we might actually get somewhere.










Phydeaux -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/8/2014 6:31:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Ultra left-wing News Paper reports otherwise:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2014/05/06/national-climate-assessment/8736743/

Report: Climate change is here and getting worse

"If people took the time to read the report, they would see that it is not necessarily about polar bears, whales or butterflies," said meteorologist Marshall Shepherd of the University of Georgia. "I care about all of those, but the NCA is about our kids, dinner table issues, and our well being."

"Climate change is here and now, and not in some distant time or place," agreed Texas Tech University climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe, one of the authors of the 800-page report. "The choices we're making today will have a significant impact on our future."

The assessment was prepared by hundreds of the USA's top scientists. It largely agrees with a recent report by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that found the planet is warming, mostly because of human activity.

-------

FIDO is looking more and more like a total CRACKPOT with his unsubstantiated views.



How amusing.

I provide you a copy of a graph of the data, which are internationally recognized as THE standard. And yet you think *my* opinion is unsubstantiated.

I will point out that:

a). From the IPCC, to Britains Met to NASA, to the Russian Academy of Science, to the chinese academy of science either have acknowledged that a "pause" has occured or never agreed with the IPCC theory in the first place.

So no one denies that the observed temperatures do not match the predicted temperatures.

b). I will also point out that no one has yet found a way to deny that similar temperature excursions have occured both every 1000 years or so, and more importantly every 475K years or so.

So if FAR warmer temperatures have occured (frequently) since before the time of man, and your theory is proven incorrect - perhaps its time to consider there might be other cause or causes.




thishereboi -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/8/2014 6:59:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Ultra left-wing News Paper reports otherwise:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2014/05/06/national-climate-assessment/8736743/

Report: Climate change is here and getting worse

"If people took the time to read the report, they would see that it is not necessarily about polar bears, whales or butterflies," said meteorologist Marshall Shepherd of the University of Georgia. "I care about all of those, but the NCA is about our kids, dinner table issues, and our well being."

"Climate change is here and now, and not in some distant time or place," agreed Texas Tech University climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe, one of the authors of the 800-page report. "The choices we're making today will have a significant impact on our future."

The assessment was prepared by hundreds of the USA's top scientists. It largely agrees with a recent report by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that found the planet is warming, mostly because of human activity.

-------

FIDO is looking more and more like a total CRACKPOT with his unsubstantiated views.



The op goes for the far right news and you go for the far left news. What a shame we can't combine the two and get something from the middle. Then maybe we can start to get some reality thrown into the mix.

Oh and that's a really cute tag line there. Nothing like letting someone live rent free in your head. It makes me wonder if you dream about the guy when you sleep or is it only when you are awake that you obsess about him.




DomKen -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/8/2014 7:26:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Cut down on the industrial pollution caused by those countries in the top 5 pollution table. There shouldn't be any debate about it - just close down the industries causing the worst of it (and not just CO2 either) and find other ways round the problem.



Cutting pollution for its own sake is rational. It's facially sufficient itself with the caveat of cost effectiveness. Stopping the destruction of the tropical rain forests is also facially obvious given its importance to mankind in general.

What is not rational are the claims of accuracy of predictive models, and for lack of a better term, having reliance on Chaos. They have consistently failed.

There are, in the generalist sense, two camps. This article is not about the subject here, but has relevance as to leftist methodology and one observes it in leftist rhetoric.

That has got to be one of the funniest examples of the rights victim mind set I've ever seen. You guys need therapy. The big bad socialists are coming to get you! BOO!

LMFAO




cloudboy -> RE: Climate Fraud (5/8/2014 9:29:42 AM)


Funny, you took my tongue and cheek characterization of USA TODAY as far-leftist --- as truth......




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