freedomdwarf1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Essentiellement, mon ami, ces chiffres ont été cités à partir du 1914 les frontières internationales.
Tommy cité dans le même article, mais à partir des tableaux de la même page. Il a affirmé que la France avait une population moindre mais a perdu plus de gens. Mon argument était que, historiquement, les Français étaient à peu près tout le monde autour d'eux par une assez longue marge et ils toujours plus nombreuses que nous autres Britanniques aujourd'hui.
We were discussing the losses during the two world wars, so previous populations are hardly relevent.
So you think previous population count isn't relevant right up to the date of said losses? I would.
And, interestingly, the topic is "Was Chamberlain responsible for World War II", not the losses of both wars.
As for turncoats (excerpt from Yahoo Answers) -
In May 1940, the forces of the Third Reich stormed over the French border. The French fought with courage and ferocity, but the forces of the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS are much too powerful, and under the onslaught of Blitzkrieg, they conquer France.
Paris declared itself an Open City, in the hope that it would be spare the slaughter which laid Rotterdam to ruins. Paris thus fell without a shot being fired.
On June 22nd, 1940, General Huntzinger signs the armistice in Compiégne forest, a site undoubtedly chosen to humiliate France, since this was the very spot in which Germany surrendered to Maréchal Foch in 1918.
By surrendering, France, under the leadership of Maréchal Philippe Pétain, the hero who had saved France during the Great War, launches into collaboration.
Petain himself declared during a radio transmission on 30th October 1940:
"I enter today the way of collaboration".
His government, wiht the directorship of Prime Minister Pierre Laval, thus collaborates for the four years of German occupation, going so far as to adopt their racialist politics, targetting in particular the Jews, of which there were 330,000 in France.
Laval was staunchly proud of serving his masters in Berlin; during a 1942 speech he expressed his "hope for a German victory".
Less than a month after the capitulation, in July 1940, the Vichy government begins to persecute the Jews, and to help the Nazis to locate and take action against them, through the process of stripping them of the French citizenships.
The Conseil des Ministres passed the first Jewish Statute in October 1940, denying them the right of employment as civil servants, teachers, or members of the armed forces, and which forbade them the right to work as "managers, directors, newspaper editors".
It also put in place a "numerus clausus", limiting the number of Jews in university studies to 3%.
The German powers asked André Tulard, a police inspector, to do a comprehensive census of all Jews located in the northern Occuped zone of France, and in November 1940, he created a central database of all Jews which had identified themselves as such, and passed the data to the Gestapo.
This database became a key tool for Theodor Dannecker, the man who became the mastermind behind the genocide of French Jews.
Though there is much blame to be laid at the feet of those in power, it is important to remember that the genocide of French Jews would have been much harder without the power held by ordinary people; the populace, and those who reinforced the racist ideas and laws.
One shining example of how ordinary Frenchmen provided more than a helping hand shows in the Milice Francaise.
The Milice was a paramilitary organisation, founded under Nazi ideals, and which was therefore comprised almost exclusively of Fascist sympathisers, some of which had fought with the Nazis and Nationalists during the Spanish Civil War.
The Milice's own 21 point programme shows its dedication to Nazi and racialist ideals:
"Against Bolshevism, for Nationalism"
"Against the Jewish leprosy, for French purity"
Their viciousness is seen when we consider that of 90,000 Jews deported from France, the Milice were responsible for 25,000.
The reason the Milice were so efficient in their dealings, despite there being 30,000 in France, was the very fact that they were French, and very often local, which gave them an edge in that they were already aware of the Jews and Communists in small French villages and communes, and they could also spy much more easily on their fellow citizens.
It would surprise few then that con cequent to the liberation, many of them were victims of reprisals ranging from summary murders to technically ex-judicial public firing squads (the latter whic, bu all accounts, were very well attended by the public).
The Gendarmerie Nationale also had blood on its hands, but what made the Gendarmerie's collaboration so much more damaging was while the Milice and the Germans never really held much authority in terms of respect, the Gendarmerie was a fundemental pillar of the Third French Republic.
It is pretty incontestible that the Gendarmerie was a big cog in the mechanism of genocide; what is are the numbers of the guilty.
The force was responsible for up to 80% of all the interceptions and arrests of "undesirables" in France, and not just Jews.
In fact, on many occasions, the Germans were never even involved in the persecution, save on a political level.
The Rafle du Vel'd'Hiv (the Winter Velodrome Purge) is a glaring example.
For the Nazi operation "Vent Printanier" (Spring Breeze), a purge of all European Jews, thousands of policemen and Gendarmes were mobilised to do the dirty work, of which 9,000 in Paris alone....
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“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell, 1903-1950
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RE: Was Chamberlain responsible for World War II - 
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