RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/12/2014 3:07:09 PM)


ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Because I'm sick and tired of everyone outside of the US, and 1/2 of the electorate IN the US whining about how terrible, or violent America is.

Let them live without our influence, or any intervention for a generation or two. It's time for the 1/2 who feel that the Progressives know what's best for everyone, learn to live like they do in Detroit.

How did the world get along without us in the first place?[8|]




DesideriScuri -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/12/2014 7:17:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
You do know that manufacturing a solar power installation is quite a bit different than setting up a TV right?


Yup. The context of the matter is still there, though innit?






DomKen -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/12/2014 8:13:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
You do know that manufacturing a solar power installation is quite a bit different than setting up a TV right?


Yup. The context of the matter is still there, though innit?

Why don't you go ask the people's of the third world.




Musicmystery -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/12/2014 8:57:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

I for one would love to see a world without American influence or intervention.


Why? Seriously.


Because I'm sick and tired of everyone outside of the US, and 1/2 of the electorate IN the US whining about how terrible, or violent America is.

Let them live without our influence, or any intervention for a generation or two. It's time for the 1/2 who feel that the Progressives know what's best for everyone, learn to live like they do in Detroit.


You'll have to add the Neo-Cons to that list, since they're bent on intervention.




Zonie63 -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/13/2014 9:51:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism?

This question was raised in a documentary I viewed recently.

Laying aside our 19th Century and early 20th Century adventures in imperialism, our late 20th Century interventions have been of two sorts: humanitarian intervention (Kosovo where we acted and Rwanda where we did not) and protective intervention (Kuwait, southern Philippines, Taiwan, Korea, etc.) Intervention has cost us lives and treasure. We have military troops stationed throughout Europe and in some Middle East nations. Also in Japan, Korea, and in the straits of Taiwan. We safeguard the sea routes to transport oil from the Middle East to Japan, China, and Europe. (The U.S. is actually a minor consumer of Middle Eastern oil.)

We are currently the world’s only super power. Many people in the world despise us for being bullies while others seek our protection. And mostly those nations under U.S. protection spend very little of their GDP on military defense. The American military budget is twice the amount of the next three or four military forces combined.

What would the world be like if one day we elected a president and congress who brought home all our troops and decided to spend a portion of our defense budget on badly needed infrastructure improvement? Would the nations of the world sort out their interests peacefully? Do we have a responsibility to maintain Pax Americana on a worldwide basis? Do we have a greater, overriding responsibility to reducing our national debt and providing a social safety net for our own people?

Your thoughts????


I do think it's time that we enter a new era in foreign policy. I don't think that we need to totally "isolationist," as many interventionists seem to fear. I think that we could take on a more neutral position, while sticking more to the basics of protecting our own physical territory and freedom of the seas - which was an important aspect of our foreign policy from the very beginning.

We may have to go along with a regional power system, where the major powers of the world would hold hegemony over their own region - or at least be involved in sharing that hegemony with other major powers. If the goal is stability and order, then we'll have to play ball with those powers who have the strength and wherewithal to enforce that stability and order. It really depends on what our goals are at this point. What do we want our role to be in this world? What do we hope to achieve, and what do we hope to gain? Are we simply doing it out of selfless devotion to freedom, justice, and democracy? Or do we do what we need to do for our practical national interests? And if so, are we really being "practical"?

Another aspect of this is how we view the rest of the world. Americans tend to look at other places in the world and see disorder, violence, tyranny, terrorism, poverty, famine, endless tragedy and atrocity - that there's just so much horror and evil and the world is such a dangerous place that we need protection. And if we didn't have a strong military presence around the world, the argument goes that it would be even worse, that we'd be yielding control to all these "evil people" who do all these evil things. Some see us on the side of "good," so it's our job to stop "evil." But foreign policy is too complex to reduce it to the level of a comic book or simplistic notions of "good vs. evil."

I think that if we tried to look at the world on a more realistic and rational level, we could probably come up with a more realistic and practical foreign policy. I think some well-meaning people may have thought that the UN and an entire global system they hoped for would bring about peace and stability through fair negotiation and compromise. We're committed to the independence of sovereign nations, democracy, free/open markets - where everyone is free, prosperous, healthy, and happy - and the whole world is like the "United States of Earth." Unfortunately, it hasn't really turned out that way, and I'm not sure if that means we should just give up and go back to the old ways, or if we should try to think of something else.

Maybe we could start building up our space fleet.




subrob1967 -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/13/2014 11:24:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

How did the world get along without us in the first place?




A few crusades, couple of world wars, and inquisition, piracy, 100 years wars... You know, meet the new master, same as the old master.




thompsonx -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/14/2014 3:34:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

How did the world get along without us in the first place?




A few crusades, couple of world wars, and inquisition, piracy, 100 years wars... You know, meet the new master, same as the old master.


That would be your code for "you do not know?"




thompsonx -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/14/2014 4:42:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

International shipping would be greatly reduced, much more expensive, you'd pay more for nearly everything, and the economy would be slower, with fewer jobs.

Why? The US Navy makes this possible.


The false assumption here is that piracy would immediately be rampant.


No, the accurate reality is that piracy existed beforehand, and that shipping today, with the exception of a few regions, proceeds uninhibited.

And we do this to protect our own interests. Global interests in this regard just happen to be aligned.


This would be your unsubstantiated ignorant opinion...it will stay as such until you manage to validate it.




subrob1967 -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/14/2014 7:13:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

That would be your code for "you do not know?"



No, this would be your code for "Hi my name is Thompson, and I'm a troll."




thompsonx -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/14/2014 7:22:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

That would be your code for "you do not know?"



No, this would be your code for "Hi my name is Thompson, and I'm a troll."



I am much more straightforward than that.
Your posts are nothing more than ignorant drivel. You have yet to validate any of the bigoted swill you have ever posted.




cloudboy -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/25/2014 4:19:46 PM)

It might help if you think about the original question, instead of just your own narrow, specific (the navy) answer to it. You are not the op here. You gave a narrow answer to question -- good for you. That does not give you the mandate to shut down broader answers.

You want to have your Navy-commerce point validated - fine. Now what about the original question.

------

The real grail is being internationalist without overreaching. Obama is supposed to announce just such a strategy. Execution of such strategy is another matter.




Musicmystery -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/25/2014 9:03:40 PM)

Oh FFS.

Come off your high horse. Giving one thought on the matter doesn't bind me to co-signing your agenda.

Nor does it "shut off" anyone else.




cloudboy -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/26/2014 6:01:46 AM)

Sorry Man, I'm having trouble reconciling POST 62 and POST 132.




Musicmystery -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/26/2014 6:39:53 AM)

I know.




ServeBlackMeat43 -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (5/29/2014 5:03:38 PM)

More expensive than the US navy?




truckinslave -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (6/1/2014 12:38:07 PM)

quote:

Would the nations of the world sort out their interests peacefully?


Can anyone fail to think this is a joke?




ServeBlackMeat43 -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (6/1/2014 6:22:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: subrob1967

How did the world get along without us in the first place?[8|]



They were dominated and exploited by Europeans




thompsonx -> RE: What would the world be like without U.S. interventionism? (6/2/2014 5:58:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ServeBlackMeat43


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: subrob1967

How did the world get along without us in the first place?[8|]



They were dominated and exploited by Europeans



Which europeans dominated and exploitated temujin(ghenghis khan)?




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