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Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 5:04:57 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Some time ago we had a discussion…HERE… on a shooting of a Meramec river floater in Missouri. I am revisiting this story because there has been a verdict. I hope all those who defending this mans right to not retreat and defend his property pay attention to what happened to this man… You could be next ... Check THIS LINK.

This area is about as conservative and pro gun as you can get in Missouri and I am proud of them for making the right decision... they are not fanatics as some here on CM.

Butch

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RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 5:12:38 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		The only reason it took them(the jury) two hours(to convict) is so they could get the county to pay for lunch.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/15/2014 5:13:22 PM >

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RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 5:34:30 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		Seems like obviously the right decision.

I wonder if the fact that the incident did not actually occur on his property was relevant to the prosecution's case? If he had been on his property and they had been trespassing and refusing to leave what would his rights have been? Does anyone who has been following this more closely know the answer to this? Just curious.

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RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 8:22:56 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Missouri does not have a stand your ground law. They have what is called a Castle Doctrine that only covers an actual residence or vehicle only not the surrounding property. So even if this did take place on his property it would have made no difference under the law.

Even under the Castle doctrine it states that if the property owner is the initiator of aggression then he cannot use deadly force.

We had page after page of gun nuts on collarme trying to justify this mans actions.

Notice how this thread has only a few posts where the original had many pages...as all threads like it. They don't like it when people take a stand against irresponsible gun owners that claim this murderer's actions were justified in using a gun to take a life.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/15/2014 8:26:07 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 8:29:00 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		It was baffling at the time. This guy was clearly in the wrong and clearly was always going to be convicted. If the gun guys were at all decent and honorable they'd own up to the nonsense they tried to peddle and apologize here.

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RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 8:49:41 PM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I'm sure it's mostly because there's really not much to discuss. Some dumbass got himself killed and another dumbass went to prison. Dumbass 2 going to jail doesn't make dumbass 1 any less of a dumbass or any less dead.

I think it's an interesting case. I thought so 10 months ago. Now it's over and almost nothing discussed 10 months ago in that other thread had anything at all to do with the way the case was apparently presented in court. According to your link the decision basically came down to the boaters word against the shooters, and some evidence that the jury didn't find credible about the shooters story. That is how jury trials work.

I admit, I thought this should have been a no brainer for the defense. On the other hand I was right about Zimmerman getting off for whacking the thug that viciously attacked him. Win some; lose some. In the meantime, life continues for those of us not stupid enough to get ourselves killed.

-SD-



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To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

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RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 8:57:29 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

I'm sure it's mostly because there's really not much to discuss. Some dumbass got himself killed and another dumbass went to prison. Dumbass 2 going to jail doesn't make dumbass 1 any less of a dumbass or any less dead.

That was not your opinion before

I think it's an interesting case. I thought so 10 months ago. Now it's over and almost nothing discussed 10 months ago in that other thread had anything at all to do with the way the case was apparently presented in court. According to your link the decision basically came down to the boaters word against the shooters, and some evidence that the jury didn't find credible about the shooters story.


Actually if you had read the link he was convicted because he was more than a hundred yards away from his property.




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RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 9:00:47 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

I'm sure it's mostly because there's really not much to discuss. Some dumbass got himself killed and another dumbass went to prison. Dumbass 2 going to jail doesn't make dumbass 1 any less of a dumbass or any less dead.

I think it's an interesting case. I thought so 10 months ago. Now it's over and almost nothing discussed 10 months ago in that other thread had anything at all to do with the way the case was apparently presented in court. According to your link the decision basically came down to the boaters word against the shooters, and some evidence that the jury didn't find credible about the shooters story. That is how jury trials work.

I admit, I thought this should have been a no brainer for the defense. On the other hand I was right about Zimmerman getting off for whacking the thug that viciously attacked him. Win some; lose some. In the meantime, life continues for those of us not stupid enough to get ourselves killed.

-SD-



I just went over the old thread, and contrary to the op's memory nobody was saying that the shooting was justified. The only debate was as to what charge would go through easiest.
At his age 1st degree, 2nd degree, or manslaughter would all amount to a life sentence.
Several anti gun types pretended that arguing for anything short of demanding 1st degree was arguing for him to get off. Since nobody argued for him to get off nobody owes an apology.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 9:03:16 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Since nobody argued for him to get off nobody owes an apology.

That is nothing but a plate of dog turds.


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RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 9:10:36 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Since nobody argued for him to get off nobody owes an apology.

That is nothing but a plate of dog turds.



I know that I never said the shooting was justified and in fact stated repeatedly that it was not so try bulling someone else.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 5/15/2014 9:11:13 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 9:31:10 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Some time ago we had a discussion…HERE… on a shooting of a Meramec river floater in Missouri. I am revisiting this story because there has been a verdict. I hope all those who defending this mans right to not retreat and defend his property pay attention to what happened to this man… You could be next ... Check THIS LINK.

This area is about as conservative and pro gun as you can get in Missouri and I am proud of them for making the right decision... they are not fanatics as some here on CM.

Butch



You are full of shit, Butch. Have you been reading too many of Ken's threads, and are starting to link to things that do not say what you claim they do?

Through a thread that was active for a week, I saw one poster - one - who was saying manslaughter might be the more appropriate charge, and to wait for more facts. One other agreed that the facts were not all in. Both thought the shooter was guilty of something. I do have a few of the participants on that thread behind the hide button, but I'm doubting Ron was screaming for rafter blood.



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RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 9:46:50 PM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

I'm sure it's mostly because there's really not much to discuss. Some dumbass got himself killed and another dumbass went to prison. Dumbass 2 going to jail doesn't make dumbass 1 any less of a dumbass or any less dead.

That was not your opinion before

I think it's an interesting case. I thought so 10 months ago. Now it's over and almost nothing discussed 10 months ago in that other thread had anything at all to do with the way the case was apparently presented in court. According to your link the decision basically came down to the boaters word against the shooters, and some evidence that the jury didn't find credible about the shooters story.


Actually if you had read the link he was convicted because he was more than a hundred yards away from his property.




The only opinion I expressed 10 months ago was that it should have been easy to defend the shooter.

If, as you so foolishly believe, the shooter was convicted over the property line issue alone, then there really is no reason to revisit the story at all.

-SD-





< Message edited by SadistDave -- 5/15/2014 9:49:15 PM >

_____________________________

To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 9:51:37 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		This stands apart from other shootings because there were other eye witnesses to the event and the shooter could not concoct a bogus, self defense, fear of my life claim.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/15/2014 9:52:04 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/15/2014 11:50:30 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Some time ago we had a discussion…HERE… on a shooting of a Meramec river floater in Missouri. I am revisiting this story because there has been a verdict. I hope all those who defending this mans right to not retreat and defend his property pay attention to what happened to this man… You could be next ... Check THIS LINK.

This area is about as conservative and pro gun as you can get in Missouri and I am proud of them for making the right decision... they are not fanatics as some here on CM.

Butch



You are full of shit, Butch. Have you been reading too many of Ken's threads, and are starting to link to things that do not say what you claim they do?

Through a thread that was active for a week, I saw one poster - one - who was saying manslaughter might be the more appropriate charge, and to wait for more facts. One other agreed that the facts were not all in. Both thought the shooter was guilty of something. I do have a few of the participants on that thread behind the hide button, but I'm doubting Ron was screaming for rafter blood.




No shit, I skimmed through the first 3 pages and none of the usual Second Amendment defenders were defending the shooter. There were reports that the shooter was attacked by a rock welding rafter, that he tried to grab the shooters gun and speculating whether or not he may have been justified based on that. There was a lot of arguing over property line, right of way laws along navigable waterways in MO. I certainly didn't defend the shooter but if the gunidiots are happy over the outcome, I'm tickled plum ta death


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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/16/2014 2:45:49 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

I'm sure it's mostly because there's really not much to discuss. Some dumbass got himself killed and another dumbass went to prison. Dumbass 2 going to jail doesn't make dumbass 1 any less of a dumbass or any less dead.

I think it's an interesting case. I thought so 10 months ago. Now it's over and almost nothing discussed 10 months ago in that other thread had anything at all to do with the way the case was apparently presented in court. According to your link the decision basically came down to the boaters word against the shooters, and some evidence that the jury didn't find credible about the shooters story. That is how jury trials work.

I admit, I thought this should have been a no brainer for the defense. On the other hand I was right about Zimmerman getting off for whacking the thug that viciously attacked him. Win some; lose some. In the meantime, life continues for those of us not stupid enough to get ourselves killed.

-SD-



I just went over the old thread, and contrary to the op's memory nobody was saying that the shooting was justified. The only debate was as to what charge would go through easiest.
At his age 1st degree, 2nd degree, or manslaughter would all amount to a life sentence.
Several anti gun types pretended that arguing for anything short of demanding 1st degree was arguing for him to get off. Since nobody argued for him to get off nobody owes an apology.

except you flirted with doing so over and over. It was obvious and disgusting.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/16/2014 3:53:37 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Since nobody argued for him to get off nobody owes an apology.

That is nothing but a plate of dog turds.



I know that I never said the shooting was justified and in fact stated repeatedly that it was not so try bulling someone else.


Actually I think you are one of the only ones who doesn't have him on hide so he really doesn't have a lot of choices.

as to the op. Personally I am glad they locked him up. I would say I hope this sends a message to other gun owners to think before they actually shoot someone, but if the idea that you might get killed hasn't stopped anyone from wandering around where they shouldn't be at night, I doubt this will affect anyone either. For some reason people think shit like this will never happen to them.

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 5/16/2014 3:54:04 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/16/2014 6:19:00 AM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

I'm sure it's mostly because there's really not much to discuss. Some dumbass got himself killed and another dumbass went to prison. Dumbass 2 going to jail doesn't make dumbass 1 any less of a dumbass or any less dead.

I think it's an interesting case. I thought so 10 months ago. Now it's over and almost nothing discussed 10 months ago in that other thread had anything at all to do with the way the case was apparently presented in court. According to your link the decision basically came down to the boaters word against the shooters, and some evidence that the jury didn't find credible about the shooters story. That is how jury trials work.

I admit, I thought this should have been a no brainer for the defense. On the other hand I was right about Zimmerman getting off for whacking the thug that viciously attacked him. Win some; lose some. In the meantime, life continues for those of us not stupid enough to get ourselves killed.

-SD-



I just went over the old thread, and contrary to the op's memory nobody was saying that the shooting was justified. The only debate was as to what charge would go through easiest.
At his age 1st degree, 2nd degree, or manslaughter would all amount to a life sentence.
Several anti gun types pretended that arguing for anything short of demanding 1st degree was arguing for him to get off. Since nobody argued for him to get off nobody owes an apology.

except you flirted with doing so over and over. It was obvious and disgusting.


If you actually read that thread again you might have noticed the shooter claimed he was attacked with a rock. Had that been true, it might have been a reason to shoot. The whole stupid thread was started just after the incident and was entirely based on speculation. You didn't know all the facts at the time and neither did Bama.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/16/2014 6:44:02 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I would say I hope this sends a message to other gun owners to think before they actually shoot someone,


Time for a Darwin Award -


Deputies have charged an 18-year-old South Carolina woman with the fatal shooting of a male friend who had donned a bulletproof vest and allegedly asked her to "shoot me," according to local media.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/16/2014 8:14:02 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Since nobody argued for him to get off nobody owes an apology.

That is nothing but a plate of dog turds.



I know that I never said the shooting was justified and in fact stated repeatedly that it was not so try bulling someone else.


Were you the only poster in 28 pages?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Missouri river floater shooting verdict - 5/16/2014 8:17:47 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: SadistDave



The only opinion I expressed 10 months ago was that it should have been easy to defend the shooter.

Clearly it was not

If, as you so foolishly believe, the shooter was convicted over the property line issue alone, then there really is no reason to revisit the story at all.

The op says so. His defense (he had several)that he was protecting his property kinda fell apart when the surveyors proved that he was more than 100 yards away from his property.





(in reply to SadistDave)
Profile   Post #: 20
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