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NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 9:51:56 AM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		The article at the link isn't all that remarkable for what is says. It's largely old news. What makes it interesting is that it is coming from the New York Times.

quote:

But the global stage hasn’t been a second-term refuge for President Obama; it’s been an arena of setbacks, crises and defeats. His foreign policy looked modestly successful when he was running for re-election. Now it stinks of failure.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/opinion/sunday/douthat-grading-obamas-foreign-policy.html?ref=opinion


It's the NYT. They have to soften it by saying that he's still better than Bush, but with 2 1/2 years of his global leadership still ahead, that claim might still be premature.

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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 10:20:06 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		The NYT is not the leftist shill you like to portray -- that's just the lens through which you view it.

There's no question Obama is merely Bush-Lite, and the (agreed) weak "at least he didn't invade Iraq" is, sadly, an improvement -- from a disaster to status quo. At least he's not listening to critics and rushing into these conflicts with military might blazing. Those approaches have consequences (as Bush tried to pretend wasn't true).

But the claim that he has no vision here, no solutions, no signs of forward motion -- it's true. On the other hand, the world isn't as simple as US vs. USSR anymore (not that it was then, but we could pretend), and just what would satisfactorily resolve this list of troubles, I can't imagine. No one else has ideas either, short of "Attack!"

I don't see where the Times softened it at all -- they added (and you omitted) that while that 2.5 years still holds a window, Douthat doesn't hold any hope.

There's the added point that I don't see where a columnist speaks for the Times as a whole -- columnists regularly disagree. It's Douthat's opinion.

Granted, he has a point, even though he's largely stating the obvious, bringing nothing to the table. Apparently, his column was due, and he had nothing else.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 10:42:57 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		It's an oped by Ross Douthat who is a conservative so no surprise.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 1:11:22 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		In the media bias survey recently released -- the NYT was rated center-left. One can appreciate the quality of the NYT by simply comparing it to other news papers. Their coverage of health care costs has been outstanding and illuminating.

I have no real idea how US Foreign policy can be improved, but we chucked whatever moral / competency authority we had left overboard with the IRAQ and Afghan wars. I kind of agree with Bill Maher that leading from behind is a good thing.

On a side note. It certainly galls many Americans to see a black man representing the USA abroad. That's one huge upside of Obama, pissing off all the bigots by simply waking up and doing his job.

I will read the actual article later.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/18/2014 1:22:53 PM >

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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 3:23:11 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
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Status: offline 		There is some truth to that article. Obama is a relatively weak person who persists in trying to govern by consensus in an insurrectionist environment. If his foreign policy is weak, to a great extent it is because of the relentless opposition of the Radicals, who undermine his Presidency and raise real concerns among our allies and others. Sad to say, there's not much Obama can do about the political climate (unless there is a big turnaround in November), so short of the voters waking up or him declaring martial law, nothing much can happen. I give him a 'C' in policy in general, whereas the Radicals get a solid 'F', for 'fucked up'.

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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 3:35:01 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		I wholeheartedly agree with the author, "at least he did not invade Iraq." I also agree that the Iraq war and afghan wars still damage the USA now and will continue to do so well into the future.

I will also add -- Obama has kept the USA out of other sinkhole foreign entanglements.

The USA has not been attacked on his watch.

Peace and stability have prevailed in most of the world -- but the Middle East, Pakistan, and Afghanistan remain problematic. It is questionable the USA can solve those problems.

The Ukraine and the Crimea are not Obama's doing. Arguably the Ukrainian nationalists wrought havoc on their own country be destabilizing the elected government. Maybe Obama does need a strategy to oppose Putinism - but direct military invlovement is not an option.

The author fails to give Obama any credit for cleaning up the clusterfuck situation he inherited. The author also does not take issue with Obama's choices for Secretary of State and defense, the real executors of his policy.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/18/2014 4:07:50 PM >

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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 3:35:47 PM   
subrob1967


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Radical opposition... I'm laughing my ass off here.

Bonehead and company has caved in EVERY time, Obama hasn't been opposed by anyone, dumbass.

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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 4:01:17 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Radical opposition... I'm laughing my ass off here.

Bonehead and company has caved in EVERY time, Obama hasn't been opposed by anyone, dumbass.


The story I heard was that obl opposed him and he had him snuffed.

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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 4:29:22 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

It certainly galls many Americans to see a black man representing the USA abroad.



Fuck you, Cloudboy.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 4:32:57 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

It certainly galls many Americans to see a black man representing the USA abroad.



Fuck you, Cloudboy.


Fuck me as well then, because Cloudboy has it spot on. Just ask Police Commissioner Robert Copeland

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 5:03:41 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


Fuck me as well then,



You've got it, Polite.

My President is fully incompetent in his conduct of foreign policy, and we may very well end up paying a horrible price for it. Your country might too, but I can't say I much give a shit.

Just as I wouldn't have my objections to this country invading Afghanistan or Iraq silenced by someone saying I was unpatriotic, I'll not have my thoughts regarding the idiotic pollyannaism of the current administration shut down by some fuckwit with a slur to fling.

Yes, there are racists, just as there are mindlessly hateful liberals who will run around with a "he's not my President" bumper sticker on their Prius, when a President they disagree with is in office.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 5/18/2014 5:04:43 PM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 6:21:33 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

There is some truth to that article. Obama is a relatively weak person who persists in trying to govern by consensus in an insurrectionist environment.

He did not seem to have much trouble creating a "regieme change" in lybia? Then of course there is his legndary parachute drop into obl's crib where they duked it out "mano a mano" and the short guy popped a cap in the big guys ass....called in the seals to give him a ride home and carry out the trash.

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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 6:25:13 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

It certainly galls many Americans to see a black man representing the USA abroad.



Fuck you, Cloudboy.



Dick, the dumb things you say...
Can you seriously believe that what he said is not true?
Dick, the dumb things you say...

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 6:31:33 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		My President is fully incompetent in his conduct of foreign policy,


Dick, the dumb things you say. This is nothing more than hot air and rhetoric. Why don't you be specific and focus on the punkassmotherfucker's sins?
We are still in the sandbox.
We are still in gitmo.
Not a snowball's chance in hell of it changing on his watch.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/18/2014 6:33:04 PM >

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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 7:49:21 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
The USA has not been attacked on his watch.



Stevens. Smith. Doherty. Woods.

Sure we haven't.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for the rest of his incompetence: China claims islands and builds air strips from their neighbors in vietnam, phillipines:

Obamas reaction: nothing.

Syria gases rebels DOZENS of times in the last few weeks in contravention of that chemical weapons treaty Obama bruited.
Obama does: nothing.

Russia siezes crimea. Nothing.

Egypt: Nothing.

Libya is becoming islamicized: Nothing.


Not a single success. But hey. At least he didn't send us into iraq...

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 7:51:53 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

It certainly galls many Americans to see a black man representing the USA abroad.



Fuck you, Cloudboy.


Fuck me as well then, because Cloudboy has it spot on. Just ask Police Commissioner Robert Copeland




Just another liberal slinging an accusation of racism absent a shread of evidence. Not a shred of personal decency, integrity honor. Just shilling for the dimocrat.

(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 8:37:28 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
As for the rest of his incompetence: China claims islands and builds air strips from their neighbors in vietnam, phillipines:
Obamas reaction: nothing.


We aren't the World Police. Where is the UN?

quote:

Syria gases rebels DOZENS of times in the last few weeks in contravention of that chemical weapons treaty Obama bruited.
Obama does: nothing.


Obama didn't draw a red line.

quote:

Russia siezes crimea. Nothing.


See the China response above.

quote:

Egypt: Nothing.
Libya is becoming islamicized: Nothing.


Where is it our authority to make determinations for Egypt? Where is it our authority to prevent the spread of Islam, let alone stop it outside our country?

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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/18/2014 9:03:32 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		You could benefit from a dose of reading comprehension. It might help make up for your unreasoned positions.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/18/2014 9:04:22 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/19/2014 1:40:55 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

"Grading" the President's foreign policy might be more meaningful if we first establish a rubric for the project.

A few thoughts toward a rubric:

(a) What should be the paramount goal of U.S. foreign policy?

(b) Below or within that, what are the next three key goals?

(c) What initiatives can the U.S. undertake to achieve those goals?

(d) How and when can we determine the success or failure of a foreign policy initiative?

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 5/19/2014 1:49:54 AM >

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RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy - 5/19/2014 2:07:53 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


Fuck me as well then,



You've got it, Polite.

My President is fully incompetent in his conduct of foreign policy, and we may very well end up paying a horrible price for it. Your country might too, but I can't say I much give a shit.

Just as I wouldn't have my objections to this country invading Afghanistan or Iraq silenced by someone saying I was unpatriotic, I'll not have my thoughts regarding the idiotic pollyannaism of the current administration shut down by some fuckwit with a slur to fling.

Yes, there are racists, just as there are mindlessly hateful liberals who will run around with a "he's not my President" bumper sticker on their Prius, when a President they disagree with is in office.


You trimmed Cloudboys quote, not me. The part you left in is 100% correct, I am sorry if that disturbs you. Like you, I wont pussyfoot around either, I call it as I see it. Judged by the posts on Collarme regards Obama, racism is alive and kicking.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 20
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