RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (Full Version)

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SadistDave -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 3:59:25 AM)

I don't believe I ever said I took it from a website. Since you're the lying bastard that claims to have seen it on a Nazi website, I believe the burden of proof providing a link falls firmly on you.

quote:

The only place I found it other than your post was a racist Nazi web site.


It was nothing more than another of your predictably feeble attempts to shut up the opposing point of view.

-SD-




tweakabelle -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 4:00:59 AM)

One common way of defining racism is: Singling any one or any group of people out for special attention purely or substantially on the grounds of race. One standard is used as the criterion for judging a member or members of a given race and another standard is used to judge others.

Applying this definition to posts by Polite, I am unable to recall a single instance of Polite unjustifiably applying the charge of racism/racism. If anyone feels my recollection is mistaken, I'd be grateful if they could point an instance of Polite mis-applying the label racism/racist.

From where I sit, (and I use the above definition of racism/racist too), it is a sad fact that there is a great deal of racism being posted here on CM, often dressed up as political criticism. Most commonly it is directed at black Americans or Arabs/Muslims. Usually (but not always), this racism comes from those who identify themselves as part of the right or far right of the political spectrum. Hardly surprising, racism has always been a quasi-monopoly of that part of the political spectrum.

One particularly insidious form of this racism is the subtle apology advanced by some when these racists are called, or their racist views labelled as such. This apology seeks to whitewash, deflect or excuse racist posts by insisting that the racism is in the mind of the accuser only, that it is 'white guilt', that hate speech is 'free speech' or similar nonsense. It is absurd to insist that racism isn't a serious (though declining) force in the world today, that the wrongs of the past have all be corrected and the slate wiped clean.




Kirata -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 4:18:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Really? You're defending racistjim? Really?

No, bozo. I'm pointing out that you're making claims without backing them up, as usual.

Get it now? Glad to help.

K.





Kirata -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 4:33:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Applying this definition to posts by Polite, I am unable to recall a single instance of Polite unjustifiably applying the charge of racism/racism. If anyone feels my recollection is mistaken, I'd be grateful if they could point an instance of Polite mis-applying the label racism/racist.

Instead, let's go for one of you making shit up and screaming racism...

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Put a sock in it, tweakabelle. Nobody has demonstrated more disrespect for the welfare of the black community than other blacks themselves. It ain't white folks driving into our inner cities at night to paint gang signs on buildings, shoot the place up, and punch a few heads of kids who are trying to do well in school.

Is it sad or tragic to see a succession of white middle aged guys lining up to insist that blacks and blacks alone are responsible for the problems that afflict their communities? That racism by whites doesn't even deserve a mention? You guys sound like any one of looney Right shock jocks here.

Pay special attention to the pretty red words.

K.






Kirata -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 4:58:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Yes, it isnt as if you have never had a racist slur deleted by the mods is it ? Your claim that you "didnt know" was a poor one, given the context you set it in.

Ah yes, the word (not, for the curious, what Polite might like you to think) was "bl**kie," as in the opposite of "wh**ey" which had been widely used without moderation damn near forever. And the context was not expressing my attitude toward blacks but rather mocking yours, which seems to presume that blacks are too stupid to recognize racism on their own and need a Great White Hero to ferret it out for them. Maybe if you're lucky you'll get to be buried next to Al Sharpton.

K.




thishereboi -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 5:39:10 AM)

You do realize that there is a big difference between disagreeing with someone and hating them because of the color of their skin, right. But then again based on past comments I already know the answer to that. You think anyone who says anything bad against the man is a racist. It's one of the main reasons I don't waste a lot of time on your posts. But just for shits and giggles I took a look at the first few posts you linked and as I suspected while they do talk about Obama, they are not racist.




thishereboi -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 5:41:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The hallmark of bigots is that they deny racism. That's the conundrum. It's a little bit like someone with a personality disorder, they think that they're fine -- its everyone else who thinks they have a problem. People with personality orders are hostile to change and often refuse treatment.

Except that nobody here is denying the existence of real racism. Seeing things that way is a little bit like having a personality disorder, because while it lets you think that you're fine, that it's the other guy who has the problem ("denying racism"), it's obvious to everyone else that you're crazy. And while people with personality disorders are hostile to change and often refuse treatment, the narcissistic ones like the attention of getting their ass kicked and provoke it as much as they complain about it.

K.




Actually his post was spot on. That is exactly the attitude I get when I call him on his bigoted rents against the right. Now how long do you think it will be before he realizes he was describing himself in that post.




Kirata -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 5:51:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

how long do you think it will be before he realizes he was describing himself in that post.

Ah, well, we can only try to help. [:D]

K.





tweakabelle -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 5:54:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Applying this definition to posts by Polite, I am unable to recall a single instance of Polite unjustifiably applying the charge of racism/racism. If anyone feels my recollection is mistaken, I'd be grateful if they could point an instance of Polite mis-applying the label racism/racist.

Instead, let's go for one of you making shit up and screaming racism...

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Put a sock in it, tweakabelle. Nobody has demonstrated more disrespect for the welfare of the black community than other blacks themselves. It ain't white folks driving into our inner cities at night to paint gang signs on buildings, shoot the place up, and punch a few heads of kids who are trying to do well in school.

Is it sad or tragic to see a succession of white middle aged guys lining up to insist that blacks and blacks alone are responsible for the problems that afflict their communities? That racism by whites doesn't even deserve a mention? You guys sound like any one of looney Right shock jocks here.

Pay special attention to the pretty red words.

K.




We've covered this ground before Mr K.

It's sad to see that you are still pretending that your post shared the blame with any one other than blacks. The finger of blame in your post is pointed exclusively at "other blacks". "Whites" are specifically excluded from blame.

If the only group that you see fit to point the finger of blame at is "other blacks" then it is perfectly reasonable to conclude that you are blaming "blacks and blacks alone". Had you pointed the finger of blame at any other group, it would not be reasonable to draw this conclusion. But you didn't.

Your post was racist to its core. No amount of words, be they pretty, red, weasel, or any other variety, can change that. Cut your losses, accept that you were wrong, learn your lesson and move on.

It's never too late to abandon hate and much better when you do. Win-win for you and everyone else too.




Kirata -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 6:02:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

We've covered this ground before Mr K.

It's sad to see that you are still pretending that your post shared the blame with any one other than blacks. The finger of blame in your post is pointed exclusively at "other blacks". "Whites" are specifically excluded from blame.

Yes we did, and it's sad to see that you're still making shit up. But as I pointed out at the time...

You really can't read, can you. Either that or you're hallucinating. "Nobody has demonstrated more disrespect" clearly implicates others in disrespecting the black community. And "other blacks" plainly refers not to all blacks but specifically to those who "paint gang signs on buildings, shoot the place up, and punch a few heads of kids who are trying to do well in school."

It's called English.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Your post was racist to its core... It's never too late to abandon hate and much better when you do.

Hallucinating then, because the only hatred on display is your own.

K.




RacerJim -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 6:14:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


Fuck me as well then,



You've got it, Polite.

My President is fully incompetent in his conduct of foreign policy, and we may very well end up paying a horrible price for it. Your country might too, but I can't say I much give a shit.

Just as I wouldn't have my objections to this country invading Afghanistan or Iraq silenced by someone saying I was unpatriotic, I'll not have my thoughts regarding the idiotic pollyannaism of the current administration shut down by some fuckwit with a slur to fling.

Yes, there are racists, just as there are mindlessly hateful liberals who will run around with a "he's not my President" bumper sticker on their Prius, when a President they disagree with is in office.


You trimmed Cloudboys quote, not me. The part you left in is 100% correct, I am sorry if that disturbs you. Like you, I wont pussyfoot around either, I call it as I see it. Judged by the posts on Collarme regards Obama, racism is alive and kicking.



Just to make sure we are on the same page, why don't you link a few of the racist comments people have made about Obama on Collarme. I am sure it won't take but a minute if the problem is as bad as you claim.

Here you go troll.
http://www.collarchat.com/searchpro.asp?phrase=obama&author=racerjim&forumid=ALL&topicreply=both&message=body&timeframe=%3E&timefilter=0&language=single&top=300&criteria=AND&minRank=0&sortMethod=d&submitbutton=+OK+
happy now.?

So, just because I'm not an Obama minion you believe I'm a racist? Racist troll you.




RacerJim -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 6:19:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Here you go troll.
http://www.collarchat.com/searchpro.asp?phrase=obama&author=racerjim&forumid=ALL&topicreply=both&message=body&timeframe=%3E&timefilter=0&language=single&top=300&criteria=AND&minRank=0&sortMethod=d&submitbutton=+OK+
happy now.?

So you searched for posts by RacerJim that contain the keyword "Obama," and that's it? Not a single racist quote to offer? Just having a negative view of Obama is "racist"? And you're calling somebody else a troll?

That bridge you live under must be too low. You've been bumping your head a lot, haven't you.

K.


Aw K, give him a break will ya. He's been bumping his head on that low bridge because he's been drinking too much Kool-Aid. :-)




tweakabelle -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 6:30:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
...

"Nobody has demonstrated more disrespect" clearly implicates others in disrespecting the black community.


No it doesn't. No one bar blacks is implicated in your statement. No other group is mentioned or implied. Inasmuch as it makes any sense, your statement makes sense if the only group disrespecting blacks are other blacks and only other blacks. There is no need for any other group disrespecting blacks to exist for your statement to make sense. So your claim that other groups are "clearly implicated" is clearly invalid.


quote:

And "other blacks" plainly refers not to all blacks but specifically to those who "paint gang signs on buildings, shoot the place up, and punch a few heads of kids who are trying to do well in school."


If that is what you wanted to say why didn't you say so? Your claim would be valid if your sentence began "It is other blacks who paint gang signs ......"

But you didn't say that. You chose to write "It ain't white folks driving into our inner cities at night to paint gang signs ....." which conveys another meaning entirely. The only group it plainly refers to is "white folks" and it specifically exonerates them. So again your claim is invalid.

Someone sure has a comprehension problem with standard English, but it isn't me. Of course you are going to encounter comprehension issues when you insist that words mean something other than their everyday common meanings, as you are trying to do here.

It's pointless pursuing this matter as long as you are insisting that your words have meanings other than their everyday English meanings. I'm sure readers have enough evidence in front of them to make up their own minds.




Yachtie -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 6:30:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

Aw K, give him a break will ya. He's been bumping his head on that low bridge because he's been drinking too much Kool-Aid. :-)


Just goes to show how low the bar is that he's trying mightily to surmount. [;)]

[sm=rofl.gif]




RacerJim -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 6:31:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Here you go troll.
http://www.collarchat.com/searchpro.asp?phrase=obama&author=racerjim&forumid=ALL&topicreply=both&message=body&timeframe=%3E&timefilter=0&language=single&top=300&criteria=AND&minRank=0&sortMethod=d&submitbutton=+OK+
happy now.?

So you searched for posts by RacerJim that contain the keyword "Obama," and that's it? Not a single racist quote to offer? Just having a negative view of Obama is "racist"? And you're calling somebody else a troll?

That bridge you live under must be too low. You've been bumping your head a lot, haven't you.

K.


Really? You're defending racistjim? Really?

Really? Not a single actual racist post of mine to offer? Really?
Really. Called out your racism. Really.




Yachtie -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 6:33:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

I'm sure readers have enough evidence in front of them to make up their own minds.



Yes, most assuredly. [sm=rofl.gif] For once I agree with you. [:D]




RacerJim -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 6:37:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

Aw K, give him a break will ya. He's been bumping his head on that low bridge because he's been drinking too much Kool-Aid. :-)


Just goes to show how low the bar is that he's trying mightly to surmount. [;)]

[sm=rofl.gif]

There isn't enough Kool-Aid in the world to help him surmount that low bar. ;-)




RacerJim -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 7:02:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

I'm sure readers have enough evidence in front of them to make up their own minds.



Yes, most assuredly. [sm=rofl.gif] For once I agree with you. [:D]

And I most assuredly agree with you. :-)




Zonie63 -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 9:13:31 AM)

FR

I think racism has been a pretty sensitive topic for as long as I can remember. I would say my grandparents' generation was pretty openly racist. Someone upthread stated that the "hallmark of bigotry is that they deny racism," but back in my grandparents' day, nobody really denied it. It was pretty overt and blatant back in those days, leaving no room for ambiguity or misinterpretation. Even those who weren't racist might have felt pressure to go along with it just the same. White people, who felt that minorities should be treated fairly and equitably, were also vociferously condemned by racists. Those who supported the labor or civil rights movements often had to go out of their way to avoid being branded as "communists" or worse.

Of course, society has changed quite a bit since those days. There was once a time when racists would use their own brand of pseudo-science to justify their position, although as the "science" was examined more closely and became discredited among scholars and other educated people, that's when people started to deny racism. Technically speaking, if one views race as strictly a physical or biological component, then one might feel that comments are "not racist" if they don't directly address anything about physical or biological aspects.

So, a common argument might be something like "I don't judge a person by the color of their skin, but..." They might focus on other aspects, such as culture or politics, as the standard for their judgment. One might also hear "Many of my best friends are _____" as another way of proving that they're not racist, since they're trying to show that it's not the actual "race" (as in biology) that they're against.

I think that's where some of the miscommunication in this thread is coming from, because of contradictory ideas as to what actually constitutes racism. Some people view it as an "all or nothing" type thing and strictly as an aspect related to skin color or some other external characteristic. Some might see that as an obfuscation, a kind of sophistry and perhaps a form of denial.

I can't read minds, so I'm not necessarily going to assume the worst of someone if they make an unwarranted extrapolation based on a limited set of facts. To a large extent, it doesn't really even matter to me what somebody "feels" inside. If someone states their political position, all I would be interested in is hearing their arguments supported by facts and reasoning, regardless of whatever their personal feelings might be.





DaddySatyr -> RE: NYT: Grading Obama's Foreign Policy (5/23/2014 9:26:05 AM)


So ... if one speaks out against the culture of "gangsta rappers", that makes them racist?

If one speaks out against a "culture" that abhors police (until they need them), that makes them racist?

I ain't buyin' it.







Screen captures still RULE! ya feel me?




quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

So, a common argument might be something like "I don't judge a person by the color of their skin, but..." They might focus on other aspects, such as culture or politics, as the standard for their judgment. One might also hear "Many of my best friends are _____" as another way of proving that they're not racist, since they're trying to show that it's not the actual "race" (as in biology) that they're against.






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