FieryOpal
Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BecomingV
quote:
ORIGINAL: Vgsjohn
.... my main difference between the two is free will. A slave gives up free will to his/her Master.
I anticipated the free will issue in my response, bringing a bit of reality to the fantasy.
Giving up free will is a fantasy which is not possible in real life....
I listen carefully when people talk about abdicating personal responsibility. Another fantasy.
<snip>
The definition of slave as a person who can never leave is incorrect. Both slaves and submissives can leave at any point and they usually do.
Unless one is serving a life sentence in an actual prison, free will cannot be abridged non-consensually, and it cannot be fully abdicated either.
This is one of the reasons why I don't want an M/s slave. I don't want a sub partner who elects to abdicate personal responsibility for himself or who shirks responsibility. (I don't want arrogant, cocky, defiant or passive-aggressive either, but that's not for this thread.)
Not definitive by any means, but I keep a mental dividing line thusly (based on hearing what many slaves and their Masters-Mistresses have described):
1. A sub implicitly or explicity gives or (re)affirms consent on a regular, continual basis. A slave's consent is given once and for all, notwithstanding the use of a safe word or withdrawing consent. It is therefore continuous and needs no formal or informal reaffirmation. Limits have been pre-established by mutual consent and don't ordinarily get waived, for subs and slaves alike, without crossing over into criminal abuse. Non-consensual abuse is NOT D/s-M/s nor how BDSM is practiced, btw.
2. IMO, a slave takes being collared to his/her Master or Mistress more seriously as 24/7 TPE. A sub may gives this lip service, or have a lesser and/or modified commitment level. Not always, of course.
This is probably what some Dominants mean when they tell a sub that s/he has the heart of a slave or IS more of a slave than a sub. I will also add that just because somebody says s/he is a slave, this doesn't mean s/he might be as much of a BDSM bottom (as in masochist) instead, as those calling themselves submissives, in my personal experience.
3. Both subs and slaves think of themselves as owned property. This doesn't mean they don't have basic human rights, although there are some Dominants who want to pretend this is so, who seek out s-types who want to be dehumanized or treated as sub-humans. (I'll withhold further comment here because I would not be able to resist crossing the line on criticizing another's kink/fetish from moral & ethical high ground.  )
Here are a few links on differentiating between a sub and a slave which might prove helpful:
"Slave or Sub" (4/10/2014) http://www.collarchat.com/m_4678833/tm.htm
"What is the difference between a Submissive and a Slave" (10/29/2013) http://www.collarchat.com/m_4575815/tm.htm
"Who gets to decide?" (10/8/2013) http://www.collarchat.com/m_4561798/tm.htm -- Cross-References "-=Sub/Slave, Guppy/Shark, Role Mislabeling Fatal, Shame on You=-" http://www.collarchat.com/m_2373559/mpage_1/tm.htm
_____________________________
Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau
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Submissive AND slave - 
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