Service and subtext

Service and subtext (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress

Message

ToMyOwnDrmmer -> Service and subtext (5/20/2014 3:26:22 PM)
I was was with the same woman for 32 years. We had a great vanilla marriage, and a lot of it was based on service. Mine to her. As you can imagine, this was just fine for me, but with one big issue: I don't happen to do subtext very well. I do best when given more explicit direction. As much as I tried, over the years I often found my wife to be a mystery. She wanted things, she wanted me to do things for her, but she did not necessarily HELP me to understand what it was that she wanted me to get for her or do for her. It was as if it ruined it for her if she simply told me what she wanted. I was supposed to somehow know these things or divine them without her having to tell me directly, and woe be to me if I didn't come up with the right answer. Now, I'm a pretty smart and sensitive guy, and over three decades I got most of it right. But figuring out what she REALLY meant when she refused to simply tell me was exhausting work. I've read a lot of profiles on CM and this is not an uncommon theme. The sub is supposed to "know from a look" what the domme wants, or "anticipate" her needs somehow. The domme is looking for a "knight" or a relationship based on an idea of chivalry in which every atom of the sub's focus is on the domme in the same manner you would see a man whip out his lighter two nanoseconds after the woman takes out a cigarette. Is that kind of focus even possible in a real world setting? I would like to know how dominant women feel about this in relation to their real life relationships with their submissive live-in (or serious monogamous) partners. Does it ruin it if you have to tell your submissive what you want?

AAkasha -> RE: Service and subtext (5/20/2014 5:00:25 PM)
Sometimes a great service sub is like a great employee, if you have ever managed a team. An employee that anticipates needs. Gets a sense of what needs to be done. Starts to see patterns and so they figure out what needs to happen. Comes with solutions not questions/problems. This allows "the boss" to focus on the task at hand and things move smoothly. The opposite side of the spectrum is the "employee" that wants a lot of direction, feedback and also really, really thrives on praise. All three combined mean that the work still gets done - but at a drain to the "boss." As a manager, these kinds of employees can be pretty effective, but they are also needy. In a relationship, the dynamic is a little different. Subs - service subs - have a "need" to serve. That need usually translates into tangible things. I jokingly call this "the care and feeding of subs." They often need some mix of: * structure * commands (or...demands -- often that pushes more buttons and makes it more exhilarating for the sub) * feedback * praise * more praise * did I mention praise? Service subs can be really efficient, but also super "needy." It's because the desire to serve is a desire. It doesn't just grow on its own, it's fed. A service sub likes attention in some form - in the giving of commands, the correction of performance, the clarification of roles, and then feedback and ultimately praise. Going back to the manager/boss and employee analogy, a proactive employee who is pretty good but super needy can be a drain. Just as a dominant partner may appear like they expect you (the sub) to be a mindreader, a lot of subs expect their dominant partner to dish out the appropriate level of praise, attention, nurturing, structure or discipline - and if not, they don't communicate it. They sulk. A sulking sub is a real drag. But a sub also feels guilty about asking for what they want or need. Or, even worse, they can't articulate it or don't know why they feel "down" while serving. They just feel unappreciated, unneeded. The key to all of this? Communicate, practice the process, have very frank discussions. In my relationship I want and expect my boytoy partner to be exactly what you described and got frustrated with: I don't want to give a ton of direction, I want him to anticipate needs, I want him to remember things so he doesn't have to re-learn over and over again. But he thrives in this kind of structure and doesn't need a TON of praise -- but we have figured out what he does need and what makes him tick. Some subs absolutely thrive in situations where rules and expectations are made totally clear. Some femdoms don't like to have to micromanage, or like to be served in ways they don't even anticipate themselves. Matching interests and expectations make it all go easier. Akasha

FieryOpal -> RE: Service and subtext (5/20/2014 5:45:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ToMyOwnDrmmer <snip> I would like to know how dominant women feel about this in relation to their real life relationships with their submissive live-in (or serious monogamous) partners. Does it ruin it if you have to tell your submissive what you want? Give me a moment while I reread Aakasha's insightful explanation, or an hour or two while I recuperate from finishing doing this.... [sm=banghead.gif] My FR-Fast Reply is this: If you have to be repeatedly told what to do and how to do it, then a woman might as well be dealing with a child. The vast majority of women don't want to be partnered with a man-child with the emotive & intuitive IQ running in the negative integers. I don't expect anybody to have to read my mind, and I don't beat around the bush much -- but sorry, I can't do dense or inefficient, or having to spell everything out over and over again.

DesFIP -> RE: Service and subtext (5/21/2014 5:27:08 AM)
I'm not that good at anticipatory service but I have no problems asking if he wants more tea or if he would rather have water. And that's the middle ground, the sub asking for direction when unclear.

FightingChains -> RE: Service and subtext (5/21/2014 5:40:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Some subs absolutely thrive in situations where rules and expectations are made totally clear. Some femdoms don't like to have to micromanage, or like to be served in ways they don't even anticipate themselves. Some Dom/mes want a mindreader. Just saying... Interesting for me... despite the fact that I'm the leader in the relationship, I tend to enjoy serving him. Just making meals, looking at the enjoyment on his face when he eats it, gifts, anything I can do to appreciate him and make his life a little easier. I tend to know his needs before he has them and sort them out. I get a massive buzz knowing I did something that made him happy. Maybe part of my switchy nature...

BossyShoeBitch -> RE: Service and subtext (5/21/2014 6:16:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal quote: ORIGINAL: ToMyOwnDrmmer <snip> I would like to know how dominant women feel about this in relation to their real life relationships with their submissive live-in (or serious monogamous) partners. Does it ruin it if you have to tell your submissive what you want? Give me a moment while I reread Aakasha's insightful explanation, or an hour or two while I recuperate from finishing doing this.... [sm=banghead.gif] My FR-Fast Reply is this: If you have to be repeatedly told what to do and how to do it, then a woman might as well be dealing with a child. The vast majority of women don't want to be partnered with a man-child with the emotive & intuitive IQ running in the negative integers. I don't expect anybody to have to read my mind, and I don't beat around the bush much -- but sorry, I can't do dense or inefficient, or having to spell everything out over and over again. I agree 100% with FieryOpal here, so let me ask you directly, after being together for 32 years, was this truly a case of you having to read her mind or was it perhaps sprinkled with a touch of neediness and a dash of dense?

FieryOpal -> RE: Service and subtext (5/21/2014 10:22:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I'm not that good at anticipatory service but I have no problems asking if he wants more tea or if he would rather have water. And that's the middle ground, the sub asking for direction when unclear. You probably do anticipate much more than you give yourself credit for. I have yet to come across a couple in an LTR who do not cue one another, drop hints or use a kind of communicative shorthand with one another. Some people are more literal than others, or it could even be a touch of perfectionism--they don't want to get things wrong, so they ask for clarification. Whether in an LTR or not, a sub should not feel as though s/he cannot speak up and get precise information to work with. But getting back to AAkasha's analogy. Yes, there are bosses who expect their underlings to read their minds or cater to their unspoken wishes. FightingChains, I'm sure that there are far too many Dominants who do this also, the mind-reading business. Looking at the extremes, then, of expecting a mind-reader in one's partner, and having a partner who is a literalist and has to have everything spelled out more than once or twice. How can you be married to someone for any length of time and be unable to anticipate their wishes to a reasonable degree? How is it there are marriages which are so close that the spouses can finish one another's sentences, marriages of much shorter duration than 30 years? OP, you say you had a "great vanilla marriage" where a lot of it was based on your service to her. I don't quite buy that. In most longstanding vanilla marriages, a disproportionate amount of service is rendered by the wife to the husband and children. The reason why your wife wanted you to be able to anticipate her wishes and needs was because she was doing that for you all along and expected reciprocity. I believe that there was a part of you that tuned out to this marriage, and this is why the level of intimacy that should have been present in your marriage got short-circuited. Now that you are moving ahead, you know you have to fix this shortcoming before you get involved with a new woman, preferably a new Mistress, and you already know that much will be expected of you. You've answered your own question. Focus. Deal with your lack of focus and keeping self-motivated. A Female Led Relationship isn't going to solve your problems for you. A Dominant woman isn't going to do all your thinking FOR you, nor would either of you want this. She isn't going to magically remove the burden of choices from off of your shoulders. That burden is still yours to shoulder. You just need to learn how to make better, more efficacious decisions on the spot, and nobody else can do that for you.

FriendlyMuppet -> RE: Service and subtext (5/21/2014 10:53:54 AM)
You know, sometimes you can go way out of your way to try to the do the right thing, and you still lose. I'll give you an example. Some time ago, a professional dominant, who was also a personal friend of mine, tried to set me up with another dominant woman by having me come over to her house and "service" the two of them, which mainly consisted of a lot of cleaning and taking care of tasks that needed done. As a service submissive, I was in heaven as this was great. The woman I was being introduced to seemed into me and my service, so all was going great. One of the reasons I had been set up with her was she was looking for someone who was meticulous on details, which is what I was trying to be (that's what my friend told me she was looking for). At the end of the day, it seemed like everything went great, and I was sent home for the day, being told that all was great and I should expect the new dominant to be contacting me shortly. Then I got a phone call from my friend indicating that she was very disappointed in me and that she recommended to the other woman (who basically hung on her every word) that she should pass me by. It turns out that her displeasure stemmed from how long I took to do everything and how overly meticulous I was. This was coming from the woman who told me to be JUST THAT. So, that being said, sometimes even the greatest of circumstances can fall apart because of really mundane things.

FieryOpal -> RE: Service and subtext (5/21/2014 11:08:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FriendlyMuppet You know, sometimes you can go way out of your way to try to the do the right thing, and you still lose. I'll give you an example. Some time ago, a professional dominant, who was also a personal friend of mine, tried to set me up with another dominant woman by having me come over to her house and "service" the two of them, which mainly consisted of a lot of cleaning and taking care of tasks that needed done. As a service submissive, I was in heaven as this was great. The woman I was being introduced to seemed into me and my service, so all was going great. One of the reasons I had been set up with her was she was looking for someone who was meticulous on details, which is what I was trying to be (that's what my friend told me she was looking for). At the end of the day, it seemed like everything went great, and I was sent home for the day, being told that all was great and I should expect the new dominant to be contacting me shortly. Then I got a phone call from my friend indicating that she was very disappointed in me and that she recommended to the other woman (who basically hung on her every word) that she should pass me by. It turns out that her displeasure stemmed from how long I took to do everything and how overly meticulous I was. This was coming from the woman who told me to be JUST THAT. So, that being said, sometimes even the greatest of circumstances can fall apart because of really mundane things. That totally sucks, then to get backstabbed like that. With friends like that, you don't need enemies. Maybe you should have done your cleaning in the nude. A friend of mine has a houseboy slave who wears an apron and nothing else. Just saying...

FriendlyMuppet -> RE: Service and subtext (5/21/2014 11:19:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal That totally sucks, then to get backstabbed like that. With friends like that, you don't need enemies. Maybe you should have done your cleaning in the nude. A friend of mine has a houseboy slave who wears an apron and nothing else. Just saying... I'll be honest. Most of my submissive relationships where I've been doing a lot of cleaning were usually situations where I didn't even get to wear an apron. Oh, those were great times. But in this situation, it probably would not have gone well if I would have decided right then and there to just go naked. Although, and this sounds really strange, I don't remember if I was made to be naked or not during that situation (what stays in my memory was the service part, not the clothing part).

ToMyOwnDrmmer -> RE: Service and subtext (5/21/2014 9:21:05 PM)
quote: OP, you say you had a "great vanilla marriage" where a lot of it was based on your service to her. I don't quite buy that. In most longstanding vanilla marriages, a disproportionate amount of service is rendered by the wife to the husband and children. The reason why your wife wanted you to be able to anticipate her wishes and needs was because she was doing that for you all along and expected reciprocity. I believe that there was a part of you that tuned out to this marriage, and this is why the level of intimacy that should have been present in your marriage got short-circuited. Now that you are moving ahead, you know you have to fix this shortcoming before you get involved with a new woman, preferably a new Mistress, and you already know that much will be expected of you. You've answered your own question. Focus. Deal with your lack of focus and keeping self-motivated. A Female Led Relationship isn't going to solve your problems for you. A Dominant woman isn't going to do all your thinking FOR you, nor would either of you want this. She isn't going to magically remove the burden of choices from off of your shoulders. That burden is still yours to shoulder. You just need to learn how to make better, more efficacious decisions on the spot, and nobody else can do that for you. Unfortunately, my wife was simply not a good verbal communicator. She was a classic passive/aggressive, clinically depressed, medicated, and under psychiatric care for much of our marriage. Nonetheless, we loved each other and understood each other the best that we could, and we hung on to each other until the day she died. Because she was not always capable, I did all of the cleaning, most of the cooking, did at least half of the childcare, and brought in all of the money. I wasn't even talking about those kind of things. I was simply talking about things that she wanted me to do, but which she would not explicitly tell me. I was always supposed to divine which restaurant, which gift, which particular concert she wanted to attend. It didn't count unless I got it right without her telling me. That's all I was asking about. How you concluded that I didn't pull my load in the marriage is beyond me. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that our marriage was "short circuited" or lacked intimacy, either. We loved each other. We would still be married if she was still alive. My question was in reference to how dommes relate to subs, not for retroactive advice on how to fix my marriage with my dead wife. But thank you anyway.

FieryOpal -> RE: Service and subtext (5/21/2014 9:47:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ToMyOwnDrmmer Unfortunately, my wife was simply not a good verbal communicator. She was a classic passive/aggressive, clinically depressed, medicated, and under psychiatric care for much of our marriage. Nonetheless, we loved each other and understood each other the best that we could, and we hung on to each other until the day she died. Because she was not always capable, I did all of the cleaning, most of the cooking, did at least half of the childcare, and brought in all of the money. I wasn't even talking about those kind of things. I was simply talking about things that she wanted me to do, but which she would not explicitly tell me. I was always supposed to divine which restaurant, which gift, which particular concert she wanted to attend. It didn't count unless I got it right without her telling me. That's all I was asking about. How you concluded that I didn't pull my load in the marriage is beyond me. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that our marriage was "short circuited" or lacked intimacy, either. We loved each other. We would still be married if she was still alive. My question was in reference to how dommes relate to subs, not for retroactive advice on how to fix my marriage with my dead wife. But thank you anyway. Then that part wouldn't apply to you personally, so thank you for explaining things in further detail, and my apologies are in order. Perhaps it's the stereotypical vanilla husband who forgets wedding anniversary dates, or who is at a loss for what to do to celebrate Valentine's Day, or can't figure out what to get his wife for her birthday or Christmas, down to the smallest romantic gestures. I have a business acquaintance who cares for his sick wife and daughters. He cooks all the meals (in large quantities and freezes them for later), fixes the girls' school lunches, washes laundry, does most of the tidying, runs errands, the household and his consulting firm (where he commutes to & from). He loves his wife, who is on psych meds for clinical depression, and he is devoted to his family, but he is not a happy man. He's burnt out. Your marriage took up more than half of your life. To act as if your relationship with your late wife is not a significant factor in your future relationships is somewhat naïve. You say she was not a good verbal communicator. I find that most Dommes have good verbal skills; nonetheless, each Domme interacts in a unique fashion with each of her subs. There is no cookie-cutter pattern to follow. I will tell you this. Dominants can be demanding, but an overly demanding and aggressive Domme is probably role-playing for the benefit of newbie subs. A woman who is comfortable with her dominance doesn't and shouldn't have to resort to Attila-the-Hun tactics. The same would go for a natural-born leader in the business world who accomplishes more through diplomacy and with subtlety and by delegating than by micro-managing everyone around him. According to the same principles, make yourself indispensable, a valued human resource, and your purpose in either capacity is to simplify her life and make it run smoothly. Not you necessarily, but I would advise any sub to elevate himself to being more than just a cog in the wheel of the D/s machine.

Page: [1]

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875