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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 7:28:51 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact


...
Do you mean in this section or the forum, overall?

If it's the end, two things:

1) I'm glad we made it through to the finale on The Walking Dead thread.

...



UMM, it can't be the end! I freaking MUST know who was killed!!!


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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 7:28:51 PM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: Nnanji

Air farce aircrews do not carry silenced pistols. Garry powers was in the cia at the time of his capture not the air farce.



Again, there is no such thing as a silencer or a silenced pistol. In my experience, crews flying over hostile territory pretty much carry what they want. You didn't read Gary Powers book did you? You're winging it. Powers was flying a plane for the CIA when he was shot down. He was an Air Force trained pilot, in a plane developed for the AirForce, flying from Air Force fields. You're going to have to give me a cite for what Air Force crews carry on combat missions. Oh, by the way, I learned how to swim at the Air Base that Powers learned how to fly at about the same time. Just an interesting aside. If you don't give me a cite for what air crews carry on combat missions, please never ask me for a cite again.

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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 7:30:08 PM   
littleclip


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67

I like McDonald's.
My kids love McDonald's.
We back McDonald's.
Now if you all don't like McDonald's. Go live on an island or say no.
Don't be concerned about our arteries.


Recent studies have shown clogged arteries have nothing to do with what you eat. It's hereditary.

its only half from our geans the other half is from our diet. for those that are predisposed to high colesterol the processed fods and the sodas make it worse.
i still eat at mcdonalds just no soda but tea and just a cheeseburger my kids love mcdonalds it has a play place

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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 7:33:53 PM   
littleclip


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact



Do you mean in this section or the forum, overall?

If it's the end, two things:

1) I'm glad we made it through to the finale on The Walking Dead thread.

2) If this is it, so long folks, and thanks for all the fish.



the answer is always 42

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i will always come to the call of those i love


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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 7:34:50 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: Nnanji

Air farce aircrews do not carry silenced pistols. Garry powers was in the cia at the time of his capture not the air farce.



Again, there is no such thing as a silencer or a silenced pistol. In my experience, crews flying over hostile territory pretty much carry what they want. You didn't read Gary Powers book did you? You're winging it. Powers was flying a plane for the CIA when he was shot down. He was an Air Force trained pilot, in a plane developed for the AirForce, flying from Air Force fields. You're going to have to give me a cite for what Air Force crews carry on combat missions. Oh, by the way, I learned how to swim at the Air Base that Powers learned how to fly at about the same time. Just an interesting aside. If you don't give me a cite for what air crews carry on combat missions, please never ask me for a cite again.

When I was in the chiefs carried a .38 special.
I don't know what people carried outside my field but I do know that I used to own an aluminum frame .38 snub nose that was developed by Colt for the Air Force and that a former POW said that when he got shot down he has a .38, likely the same type of gun.

_____________________________

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 7:45:24 PM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: Nnanji

Air farce aircrews do not carry silenced pistols. Garry powers was in the cia at the time of his capture not the air farce.



Again, there is no such thing as a silencer or a silenced pistol. In my experience, crews flying over hostile territory pretty much carry what they want. You didn't read Gary Powers book did you? You're winging it. Powers was flying a plane for the CIA when he was shot down. He was an Air Force trained pilot, in a plane developed for the AirForce, flying from Air Force fields. You're going to have to give me a cite for what Air Force crews carry on combat missions. Oh, by the way, I learned how to swim at the Air Base that Powers learned how to fly at about the same time. Just an interesting aside. If you don't give me a cite for what air crews carry on combat missions, please never ask me for a cite again.

When I was in the chiefs carried a .38 special.
I don't know what people carried outside my field but I do know that I used to own an aluminum frame .38 snub nose that was developed by Colt for the Air Force and that a former POW said that when he got shot down he has a .38, likely the same type of gun.



AR-7 .22 caliber survival rifle developed for the Air Force.

https://www.henryrifles.com/rifles/u-s-survival-ar-7/


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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 7:51:43 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Shooting to wound or to warn also, in court, lends credence to the idea that you didn't have fear for your life.

Really????how so???[/quote]

In California law...you look it up, I have...the Castle Doctrine states that you may use deadly force if you are in imminent danger of death or great bodily injury. The law presumes you had the right to use deadly force unless the prosecutor can provide contrary evidence.

This is in the law



Shooting to wound is such evidence, shooting warning shots is such evidence. Actually, shooting to warn turns the roles around and legally provides the home invader with evidence that his/her life is in imminent danger.

This is not the law in fact the law is the exact opposit. So clearly you have not looked up the law.

3) California’s stand-your-ground defense as part of the justifiable homicide rules has several conditions. Aggressors are not eligible for this — you must be defending, not striking first.


http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2013/07/22/5-things-to-know-about-stand-your-ground-in-california

It takes a well trained person about 1/4 second to get a shot off with a Glock.

This would be opinion unsubstantiated by fact Cycle time on a glock or a baretta is .05 sec.
The discussion is about a .22 high standard which is a blow-back auto loader with a similar cycle time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_93R


(Again, you look it up.). It takes a person 18/100's of a second to raise a hand from the waists to the shoulder. It's pretty impossible to hit a hand except by luck. A toe would be very similar.

The toe is attached to a foot. When you run the foot has to stop each time it is planted and it stays
stationary for about a third of a second. When you are running at someone the foot is moving fore and aft not side to side. The foot also goes up and down but always in the same plane. Travel time of the bullet in the challange being discussed is about .025. cycle time of the weapon is .05 seconds That would be .075 sec from triger pull to bullet strike to battery, leaving plenty of time for a second shot. The amount of time to raise my arm is not relevant since once it is up it is up. So each time the foot plants I have about .333 seconds to do .075 seconds worth of work to do. It will take a running man about 8 seconds to cover 25 yards. The bulls eye on a 25 yard pistol target is 1.51" in diameter. Why do you think that is too difficult for someone who knows how to shoot?




In the clay target Trap shooting, a clay target is about a third the size of my foot. Except for handicap Trap, it's shot with a shotgun from 16 yards. Rarely do people break all the Traps.

Shooting clay birds(not traps) is different from the challange being discussed. The birds are thrown up and away and at varying angles from the shooter. My handicap by the way is 22 yards.

So, I'd say your ability to hit a moving toe with a handgun at 25 yards should be good enough to get you into competition...or the circus.

Actually it barely gets my name on the list of real shooters.



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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 7:59:03 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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I don't believe you can double tap a one inch moving target at 25 yards in a third of a second, I promise I won't call you a liar.

Your foot is not moving when it is planted for that third of a second.

And as pointed out it takes a thrid of a second for it to register where the foot is, thus by the time you can fire it isn't there anymore.

That would be your opinion and not substantiated by any facts.
There is also the fact that the person running is running in a straight line at you and the position of their foot is quite predictable.


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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 8:04:31 PM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Nnanji


There are some specific cases where that sort of foolishness is done. A simple google search would allow you to discover at what age medical doctors agree that the human brain is fully formed and capable of making rational decissions.
There is a reason why there is an age restriction for being a congressman,senator or president in this country.
It would follow from that why the age restriction for joining the military is so low. What adult with a fully formed brain would join the military?






My uncle went to Annapolis and gave his life for his country. My father was in the Air Force. I was an Air Force brat. I know many people, men and women, who join and reenlist. I find them to be smart, resourceful honorable people. You wouldn't understand that it seems. It appears you ridicule much more than understand such things as honor and commitment to something larger than yourself. The way you argue here shows you're small. That's too bad.

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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 8:05:52 PM   
Cinnamongirl67


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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 8:09:18 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Nnanji
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Shooting to wound or to warn also, in court, lends credence to the idea that you didn't have fear for your life.

Really????how so???


In California law...you look it up, I have...the Castle Doctrine states that you may use deadly force if you are in imminent danger of death or great bodily injury. The law presumes you had the right to use deadly force unless the prosecutor can provide contrary evidence.

This is in the law



Shooting to wound is such evidence, shooting warning shots is such evidence. Actually, shooting to warn turns the roles around and legally provides the home invader with evidence that his/her life is in imminent danger.

This is not the law in fact the law is the exact opposit. So clearly you have not looked up the law.

3) California’s stand-your-ground defense as part of the justifiable homicide rules has several conditions. Aggressors are not eligible for this — you must be defending, not striking first.


http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2013/07/22/5-things-to-know-about-stand-your-ground-in-california

It takes a well trained person about 1/4 second to get a shot off with a Glock.

This would be opinion unsubstantiated by fact Cycle time on a glock or a baretta is .05 sec.
The discussion is about a .22 high standard which is a blow-back auto loader with a similar cycle time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_93R


(Again, you look it up.). It takes a person 18/100's of a second to raise a hand from the waists to the shoulder. It's pretty impossible to hit a hand except by luck. A toe would be very similar.

The toe is attached to a foot. When you run the foot has to stop each time it is planted and it stays
stationary for about a third of a second. When you are running at someone the foot is moving fore and aft not side to side. The foot also goes up and down but always in the same plane. Travel time of the bullet in the challange being discussed is about .025. cycle time of the weapon is .05 seconds That would be .075 sec from triger pull to bullet strike to battery, leaving plenty of time for a second shot. The amount of time to raise my arm is not relevant since once it is up it is up. So each time the foot plants I have about .333 seconds to do .075 seconds worth of work to do. It will take a running man about 8 seconds to cover 25 yards. The bulls eye on a 25 yard pistol target is 1.51" in diameter. Why do you think that is too difficult for someone who knows how to shoot?




In the clay target Trap shooting, a clay target is about a third the size of my foot. Except for handicap Trap, it's shot with a shotgun from 16 yards. Rarely do people break all the Traps.

Shooting clay birds(not traps) is different from the challange being discussed. The birds are thrown up and away and at varying angles from the shooter. My handicap by the way is 22 yards.

So, I'd say your ability to hit a moving toe with a handgun at 25 yards should be good enough to get you into competition...or the circus.

Actually it barely gets my name on the list of real shooters.





You lie well. I can admire that.everyone has to have their thing.

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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 8:09:28 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Nnanji
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


When you document your CIA assassins I'll document the gang bangers home invasions.


The High Standard HDM is a semiautomatic pistol equipped with an integral sound suppressor.[1] Based on the High Standard HD model target pistol, it was adopted by the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) during World War II. OSS head Bill Donovan demonstrated the pistol to President Franklin Roosevelt inside the Oval Office. Because of legal concerns during wartime, full-metal-jacketed .22 LR rounds were developed for this pistol.
It is still found in United States inventories, including that of the CIA, United States Marines, and Special Forces

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Standard_HDM

Oh...and...the Air Force still gives pilots .22's. It's not to shoot bad guys while escaping and evading. It's to provide food while escaping and evading.

I did not mention the air farce. I mentioned gary powers who worked for the cia...and got hosed by the air farce when he was released from prison. His weapon was had an intergral sound supressor..you do not need a sound supressed pistol to hunt rabits.


Whether Gary Powers was flying for the Air Force or the CIA is moot. He was an Air Force pilot. Didn't you read his book?

Yes I did and he says quite clearly that he resigned his commission to work for the cia with the verbal promise of the air farce to reinstate him when he finished working for the cia. When he was released from prison the air farce told him he would return to flight status as a junior officer with no time granted for his stint with the cia.

The OSS developed, and dropped into occupied countries, several weapons systems, including a crappy single shot .45, with the intention that they be used once in order to capture a more fitting weapon to actually use. And, if you are escaping and evading, a suppressed (not silenced, there is no such thing as a silencer) method of harvesting rabbits is useful. You assume it's for assassination and show no evidence here that was the intention.

What purpose would the cia have for a sound supressed pistol?

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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 8:11:32 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: Nnanji

Air farce aircrews do not carry silenced pistols. Garry powers was in the cia at the time of his capture not the air farce.



Again, there is no such thing as a silencer or a silenced pistol. In my experience, crews flying over hostile territory pretty much carry what they want. You didn't read Gary Powers book did you? You're winging it. Powers was flying a plane for the CIA when he was shot down. He was an Air Force trained pilot, in a plane developed for the AirForce, flying from Air Force fields. You're going to have to give me a cite for what Air Force crews carry on combat missions. Oh, by the way, I learned how to swim at the Air Base that Powers learned how to fly at about the same time. Just an interesting aside. If you don't give me a cite for what air crews carry on combat missions, please never ask me for a cite again.

When I was in the chiefs carried a .38 special.
I don't know what people carried outside my field but I do know that I used to own an aluminum frame .38 snub nose that was developed by Colt for the Air Force and that a former POW said that when he got shot down he has a .38, likely the same type of gun.



AR-7 .22 caliber survival rifle developed for the Air Force.

https://www.henryrifles.com/rifles/u-s-survival-ar-7/



True.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 8:15:57 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Nnanji
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Shooting to wound or to warn also, in court, lends credence to the idea that you didn't have fear for your life.

Really????how so???


In California law...you look it up, I have...the Castle Doctrine states that you may use deadly force if you are in imminent danger of death or great bodily injury. The law presumes you had the right to use deadly force unless the prosecutor can provide contrary evidence.

This is in the law



Shooting to wound is such evidence, shooting warning shots is such evidence. Actually, shooting to warn turns the roles around and legally provides the home invader with evidence that his/her life is in imminent danger.

This is not the law in fact the law is the exact opposit. So clearly you have not looked up the law.

3) California’s stand-your-ground defense as part of the justifiable homicide rules has several conditions. Aggressors are not eligible for this — you must be defending, not striking first.


http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2013/07/22/5-things-to-know-about-stand-your-ground-in-california

It takes a well trained person about 1/4 second to get a shot off with a Glock.

This would be opinion unsubstantiated by fact Cycle time on a glock or a baretta is .05 sec.
The discussion is about a .22 high standard which is a blow-back auto loader with a similar cycle time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_93R


(Again, you look it up.). It takes a person 18/100's of a second to raise a hand from the waists to the shoulder. It's pretty impossible to hit a hand except by luck. A toe would be very similar.

The toe is attached to a foot. When you run the foot has to stop each time it is planted and it stays
stationary for about a third of a second. When you are running at someone the foot is moving fore and aft not side to side. The foot also goes up and down but always in the same plane. Travel time of the bullet in the challange being discussed is about .025. cycle time of the weapon is .05 seconds That would be .075 sec from triger pull to bullet strike to battery, leaving plenty of time for a second shot. The amount of time to raise my arm is not relevant since once it is up it is up. So each time the foot plants I have about .333 seconds to do .075 seconds worth of work to do. It will take a running man about 8 seconds to cover 25 yards. The bulls eye on a 25 yard pistol target is 1.51" in diameter. Why do you think that is too difficult for someone who knows how to shoot?




In the clay target Trap shooting, a clay target is about a third the size of my foot. Except for handicap Trap, it's shot with a shotgun from 16 yards. Rarely do people break all the Traps.

Shooting clay birds(not traps) is different from the challange being discussed. The birds are thrown up and away and at varying angles from the shooter. My handicap by the way is 22 yards.

So, I'd say your ability to hit a moving toe with a handgun at 25 yards should be good enough to get you into competition...or the circus.

Actually it barely gets my name on the list of real shooters.




Trap is, of course, done with a shotgun, making it a faulty comparison to anythig with a handgun.
BTW you never did come up with any expert, other than yourself, who advocates foot shooting.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 8:26:38 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
UMM, it can't be the end! I freaking MUST know who was killed!!!

Win, as long as you've got an internet connection come Monday, (I'm estimating) October 10, you won't be able to help but know. Variety, The Hollywood Reporter, Entertainment Weekly, and every other organization that has somebody doing reviews of television shows will have somebody doing a commentary as soon as they can get it out there.

However, if it makes you feel better, I went looking for an article about frustrating/unresolved cliffhangers. Link - http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/last-episodes-cliffhangers/ I, just now, found out who killed Samantha on "Reunion" over ten years later. http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/reunion-killers-identity-revealed-for-cancelled-fox-show/




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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 8:29:07 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't know... I've never heard of a Big Mac walking into a kindergarten and shooting children full of holes.

Butch

But in every McDonalds you will find them clogging arteries.


Yep and you also find a few nuts with guns murdering patrons don't you.

PS... the colors are links to just a few of the many mass shooting at fast food restaurants ... there are many more.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/6/2016 8:41:50 PM >

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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 8:31:48 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Nnanji
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


When you document your CIA assassins I'll document the gang bangers home invasions.


The High Standard HDM is a semiautomatic pistol equipped with an integral sound suppressor.[1] Based on the High Standard HD model target pistol, it was adopted by the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) during World War II. OSS head Bill Donovan demonstrated the pistol to President Franklin Roosevelt inside the Oval Office. Because of legal concerns during wartime, full-metal-jacketed .22 LR rounds were developed for this pistol.
It is still found in United States inventories, including that of the CIA, United States Marines, and Special Forces

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Standard_HDM

Oh...and...the Air Force still gives pilots .22's. It's not to shoot bad guys while escaping and evading. It's to provide food while escaping and evading.

I did not mention the air farce. I mentioned gary powers who worked for the cia...and got hosed by the air farce when he was released from prison. His weapon was had an intergral sound supressor..you do not need a sound supressed pistol to hunt rabits.


Whether Gary Powers was flying for the Air Force or the CIA is moot. He was an Air Force pilot. Didn't you read his book?

Yes I did and he says quite clearly that he resigned his commission to work for the cia with the verbal promise of the air farce to reinstate him when he finished working for the cia. When he was released from prison the air farce told him he would return to flight status as a junior officer with no time granted for his stint with the cia.

The OSS developed, and dropped into occupied countries, several weapons systems, including a crappy single shot .45, with the intention that they be used once in order to capture a more fitting weapon to actually use. And, if you are escaping and evading, a suppressed (not silenced, there is no such thing as a silencer) method of harvesting rabbits is useful. You assume it's for assassination and show no evidence here that was the intention.

What purpose would the cia have for a sound supressed pistol?




You know, when I hunt I carry a little Freedom Arms .22 as a finish gun. I've killed a lot of animals with it. You basically have to put the barrel in the animals ear and pull the trigger to penetrate the skull. And you say you're going to send an assassin out with one. Everything you've said is fantasy. It's so weird. All to try and prove a point to people who know you're BS. That takes a certain disconnection from the real world.

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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 8:33:40 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


There are some specific cases where that sort of foolishness is done. A simple google search would allow you to discover at what age medical doctors agree that the human brain is fully formed and capable of making rational decissions.
There is a reason why there is an age restriction for being a congressman,senator or president in this country.
It would follow from that why the age restriction for joining the military is so low. What adult with a fully formed brain would join the military?



Both my adopted father and my stepfather retired from the Air Force.

My adopted father was a Colonel when he retired, my stepfather a Senior Master Sergeant.

Each put in 20 years of service. They may have enlisted at 18, but their fully formed brains chose a career in the military.

3 of the greatest men I've known in my life all served in the military.

While I have read articles and studies about how the human brain isn't fully formed in adolescents and agree that children generally don't fully comprehend the consequences of their choices because of it - I see no reason to disparage the choices of young adults who join the military. For some, it is a calling. For other's a way to pay for college and simply a job.

(in reply to Nnanji)
Profile   Post #: 558
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 8:35:35 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't know... I've never heard of a Big Mac walking into a kindergarten and shooting children full of holes.

Butch

But in every McDonalds you will find them clogging arteries.


Yep and you also find a few nuts with guns murdering patrons don't you.

Butch

Every time I go to McDonald's someone is shooting the place up.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 559
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/6/2016 8:36:01 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: BamaD

BTW you never did come up with any expert, other than yourself, who advocates foot shooting.

Had you been paying attention to anything but your own ego you may have noticed that I mentioned several times it was my opinion and only my opinion.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 560
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