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Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/20/2014 5:00:09 PM

Crouchingtiger77

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A Good Cowboy does not need to use Spurs, but,

For those who need to spur on their submissive, metaphorically or realistically speaking, do you as Cowboys, or Dommes, as Cowgirls see use of Spurs as useful in same way you would use on your faithful steed?

And, as you read the link on use of Spurs, you learn some things, which I did not know until I read this.

Enjoy the link
Tiger

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/20/2014 5:43:51 PM

DesFIP

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My daughter's last horse was trained to stop when the spurs lightly rolled down his sides. We're not believers in causing pain to teach an animal anything.

He had been sent to a professional trainer for 90 days, several years before we bought him. The result of that was PTSD. Seeing a 1200 lb horse in a panic attack is not something you want to see or deal with. It took years to remove some of the emotional triggers that this uncaring creep caused.

She wore rounded ones for classes where that was part of the necessary costume. She never used them to hurt, she never used a crop.

We found a liberal application of jelly beans and praise along with repeating a command taught the horse to respond to voice commands.
Good western riders ride bridleless, controlling the horse by simply shifting their weight. I've seen John Lyons take a western horse over a 4 foot fence with no training simply because the horse trusted him.

She won an invitation to the AQHYA World competition doing this. She was high point rider from her region in IHSA using kindness, that means one of only 26 riders in the nation.

I know the difference between positive and negative reinforcement, between punishment and reward. And I have nothing but contempt for people who don't.

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/20/2014 6:02:25 PM

punisher440

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While I have never ridden in any type of horse show, I have trained and ridden several horses in my life and never used a spur for any reason. The horses I have raised were all imprint trained following Dr Robert Miller's methods meaning the first thing they saw/smelled/had touching them was me and I worked with them several hours a day and they saw me as the "leader" of the herd. I also read and followed John Lyons as well as Pat Parelli,Clinton Anderson and GaWaNi Pony Boy and found good solid wisdom in all of their methods. I ended up with well mannered horses that wanted to please instead of ones that obeyed only to save them from pain. Plus a few pieces of peppermint candy went a long way as a reward for doing as I asked.... ;)

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/20/2014 6:13:57 PM

NiceButMeanGirl

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I will not use spurs on an animal or a human, either one. I just won't. Not that I won't give some pain to a submissive. If he's into it, yes, I'm a sadist. But I won't attempt to teach anyone, animal or human, by inflicting pain. Now I can think of some, umm, "other things" to do w/ a sub who's in assless chaps and bent over a fence....

NBMG

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/20/2014 6:48:03 PM

LaTigresse

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I don't use spurs because I grew up riding bareback (no saddle). My first instinct when a horse gets jiggety is to grab on with my legs. My one and only experience with spurs involved a pheasant blowing up from under my horse, making it do a springy jump to the left. That caused my right spur to dig into my baby's side. I am a sadist but not with my furry babies. Never again.

I'd rather encourage them in other ways.

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/20/2014 7:44:26 PM

shiftyw

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Spurs piss off my appy mare. If you want to fight her, touch her with spurs.

As a person and a maso, I admit to like the sensation of having them rolled over my skin. I'm not into pet play though (I have back problems, its pretty much off the table).

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/20/2014 8:56:08 PM

Crouchingtiger77

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quote:

I will not use spurs on an animal or a human, either one. I just won't. Not that I won't give some pain to a submissive. If he's into it, yes, I'm a sadist. But I won't attempt to teach anyone, animal or human, by inflicting pain. Now I can think of some, umm, "other things" to do w/ a sub who's in assless chaps and bent over a fence....

NBMG

Nicebutmeangirl, thanks and to all for posting to this. But, when you read the link, it is made clear that first a good cowboy uses only their legs to direct the horse. If they use spurs,

They are not used to kick with but to put gentle pressure because the article makes clear kicking a horse, hurting it, will make things worse and for the rider, increase probability of injury.

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/21/2014 7:57:24 AM

DesFIP

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If you've established a rapport with the horse, you don't need to use spurs to put pressure on. You could do it with your knees.

Or just shift your weight.

Or as with my daughter's horses, simply telling him the command and having him do it. Because sufficient trust had been built that he knew it was safe to do what she wanted.

Congress Queens of late have won riding without bridles or saddles or spurs. When it's just you and the horse, and no aids, that's the mark of a good rider.

My daughter rode through Quarterhorse Congress sitting on the horse's back the whole way, just a halter on. She was heading for the lunging arena and didn't feel like walking him there. For us, it was old hat. But everyone else was astonished that he would follow her directions without harsh bits and heavy control.

Now, I don't respond to jellybeans or peppermints like a horse. I respond to praise and affection. So why would he use something harsh, when there's a gentler way to do it? And if it's sadism, then you need to discuss ahead of time that she's an emotional masochist. I can tolerate a small amount of physical pain, but no emotional cruelty.

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/21/2014 9:19:32 AM

OriginalRebel

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Probably the only riding discipline I have never done is western riding and this thread, along with its link is specifically about western riding. I can’t comment on the use of spurs and western riding but I will comment on spurs in general.

I’m an ex show jumper and dressage rider. As I moved up the ranks in dressage I started using spurs. For anyone who has indulged in classical dressage at a level beyond medium, you will understand that moving the lower leg against the horses side will move the entire leg. This causes the knee to turn out and the hip to rotate, which in turn draws the leg up. When your sitting deep into the horse and encouraging the horse to lift his back, the last thing you need is tension in the entire leg. If your training a horse in piaffe/passage, touching the horse under his belly will assist greatly. If you look at dressage spurs they usually have long shanks and very soft rowels, unlike the harsh wheel that seems to be used for western riding.

Its not about hurting the horse, god forbid, to hurt a horse with a spur is darn right criminal. A spur is an extension of the leg and merely caresses the horses side. Push a horse and it will resist by pushing back against your hand, heel or calf. Touch with the gentlest of touches and the horse will respond positively. Riding, no matter what discipline, is all about understanding that the horse responds to the most subtle of actions. A dressage whip should never be used to hit the horse but to touch. Like a spur is an extension of the heel, a whip is an extension of the hand.

Of course horses can spook, rear, buck and do all manner of things to get you off but do you really hold on with the lower leg? No, you relax your pelvis and upper thighs into the horse, keeping your heels away from its sides. I don’t care what the horse does, if spurs are dug in then the rider clearly shouldn’t be wearing them. I’ve jumped on horses that are petrified of spurs and once a rider has caused that kind of damage, its very hard to overcome.

I worked for a while with Richard Maxwell in ‘natural horsemanship’ and understand the importance of horse and rider bonding. After a hard days work, me and my horses would ride through the woods with no saddle and no bridle. We would swim together in the river and play games.

(in reply to DesFIP)

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/21/2014 12:46:35 PM

Crouchingtiger77

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quote:

I worked for a while with Richard Maxwell in ‘natural horsemanship’ and understand the importance of horse and rider bonding. After a hard days work, me and my horses would ride through the woods with no saddle and no bridle. We would swim together in the river and play games.

Original Rebel,
Thanks for your posting and you seem to have caught the heart of the link posted and also that I think others saw the word 'Spurs' and think, cruel and inhumane treatment of a horse.

That is not the case. There is a person called, 'The Horse Whisperer,' I'm not sure if that is one of the people already mentioned and perhaps he would say no need for spurs.

But, I was also thinking of if using spurs in some context with a submissive, does not have to be about, 'the pain' they can apply but other things also.

Just a person who wears spurs can or could be saying, I am in control, and that my submissive takes my lead knowing I have the spurs but never having to use them and if she or he depending on case of sub, feels them as a friend, and responds to them. Of this ,I speak in metaphor.

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/21/2014 2:43:07 PM

StrictlyADomina

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Different things motivate different people and to some degree animals. Spurs are a tool, just like a crop. Some horses operate better with spurs and some don't' need them. Likewise with people, some people require different motivation. Some horses, dogs and people who can put forth effort and do "A" caliber work, proudly hand in a "C" constantly because it requires minimal effort. Others do the best that they can do all the time.

Do I need to "spur on" my submissive? Well I do enjoy pushing them from time to time. Am I going to do it on an on going basis....ie.. wear spurs all the time? Nope. I'm gong to have a horse or submissive that puts forth the same effort that I do the bulk of the time.

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/21/2014 4:36:56 PM

DesFIP

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If you don't ever use them, then why bother to go to the effort of wearing them?
Same with inspiring a sub. Why would you need to display a punishment paddle or whatever, if you never use it?

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/21/2014 4:51:39 PM

Crouchingtiger77

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quote:

Why would you need to display a punishment paddle or whatever, if you never use it?

.
First, question would or could be, but does not have to be the first question but in this case is the first question: What rule in bdsm land says one must use things and cannot have them either for display or for a type of show in times of play or other.

There is not as of yet a second question, but there could be a second question

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/21/2014 5:51:28 PM

catize

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It would take more than being submissive to stop me from pointing and laughing at someone who wore spurs just to show me they are dominant........................it is a bit.............spurious!!!

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/21/2014 5:58:12 PM

Crouchingtiger77

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quote:

.it is a bit.............spurious!!!

I would think this would not happen unless it were within the framework of who that person is, and not just done because it was something different.

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/22/2014 2:13:46 AM

ShaharThorne

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Never used spurs on the horses I rode years ago. Simply used my legs and the bridle if I was not riding bareback. Been bucked off plenty of times...

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/22/2014 2:13:57 AM

OriginalRebel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

It would take more than being submissive to stop me from pointing and laughing at someone who wore spurs just to show me they are dominant........................it is a bit.............spurious!!!

This is BDSM as well as D/s. People really need to lighten up and understand that people like to have a bit of fun. There will always be those who sit in the far corner of a club pointing and laughing at people they consider 'jerkish' in their dominance. These people, in my opinion, take life all too seriously and because they don't do light-hearted they just don't get it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crouchingtiger77
There is a person called, 'The Horse Whisperer,' I'm not sure if that is one of the people already mentioned and perhaps he would say no need for spurs.

You're probably talking about a guy called Monty Roberts. People were practising natural horsemanship long before he came along. He was just a good marketeer that cashed in on something thats been practised for thousands of years. He is a business man and would only take the time to learn about the proper use of spurs if there was something in it for him at the end of it.

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/24/2014 1:36:57 PM

DesFIP

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If the op wants to wander around the dungeon in chaps and spurs, then he should go for it.

But he seemed to be sincerely asking about using an aid. And many of us responded that with our horses, and when it comes to ourselves, we far more esteem a rider or dominant who can inspire obedience, and not one who has to compel it through force.

Resistance play can be fun, but it's right time and place. For a power relationship, if you have to chase her around the house to get a second cup of coffee, there's a definite problem.

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/24/2014 1:49:30 PM

Crouchingtiger77

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quote:

if you have to chase her around the house to get a second cup of coffee, there's a definite problem.

Well, I've got two bad knees and though I do not need crutches to walk around the house I use at least one, when walking out side to avoid falling if one of my knees decides to buckle on me, so,
I do not chase around my apartment.

I was thinking more of also the psychological impact having something though not used can have on another. Not everything has to be used.

Imagine for example a person enjoys buying and collecting antique things used for actual torture and punishment in ancient times. That does not mean you use it but that you have possession of them can create an atmosphere special, and suggestive to the submissive.

It could also allow for interesting conversation with friends and guests.

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RE: Are there Cowboys out there to answer this - 5/24/2014 6:38:03 PM

HoldinOn

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Any educated horseman will tell you that spurs are an aid used on finished horses. Meaning the correct use of spurs is for subtle cues. Think of the surface are of the side of a heel and a calf, now think of the surface area of the size of a sure. The objective of the use of spurs is to create more subtle specific cues, and the requires a higher level of training. Moving your foot a fraction on an inch vs moving it several inches to indicate the desired movement. Using spurs to cause pain or to force a horse to do something is archaic. Use that analogy and apply it to your relationship please.

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