Which is more important? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Which is more important?


Freedom
  50% (12)
Wisdom
  50% (12)


Total Votes : 24
(last vote on : 6/4/2014 12:39:15 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


joether -> Which is more important? (5/22/2014 10:16:02 AM)

If you were forced to choose one quality or the other for America?

A seemingly easy question,,,,,




Musicmystery -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 10:19:00 AM)

I'm wise enough not to buy into false dilemmas, and I'm free enough not to have to choose.




BamaD -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 10:55:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

If you were forced to choose one quality or the other for America?

A seemingly easy question,,,,,

Without wisdom you can not make proper use of freedom
Without freedom you can not avail yourself of your wisdom
A free man (person) must be wise.
If you mean as national policy freedom is better as the people can make up for the governments stupidity




Musicmystery -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 11:32:19 AM)

Except that it's the idiot people who elect that government . . .




joether -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 11:58:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
If you were forced to choose one quality or the other for America?

A seemingly easy question,,,,,

Without wisdom you can not make proper use of freedom
Without freedom you can not avail yourself of your wisdom
A free man (person) must be wise.
If you mean as national policy freedom is better as the people can make up for the governments stupidity


Very good points.

I would say that without wisdom, freedom allows for bad decision making. Without freedom, could wisdom exist? I would argue that good wisdom makes for not just enjoying freedom more deeply, but establishes good government.




BamaD -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 1:00:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
If you were forced to choose one quality or the other for America?

A seemingly easy question,,,,,

Without wisdom you can not make proper use of freedom
Without freedom you can not avail yourself of your wisdom
A free man (person) must be wise.
If you mean as national policy freedom is better as the people can make up for the governments stupidity


Very good points.

I would say that without wisdom, freedom allows for bad decision making. Without freedom, could wisdom exist? I would argue that good wisdom makes for not just enjoying freedom more deeply, but establishes good government.

I think we agree that we need both.




Kirata -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 1:06:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think we agree that we need both.

I think we should ask what he means by "wisdom".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false

There are several words that could be applied to denying historical fact and promoting one's febrile imaginings as truth instead, but "wisdom" isn't among them.

K.






thompsonx -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 1:53:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think we agree that we need both.

I think we should ask what he means by "wisdom".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false

There are several words that could be applied to denying historical fact and promoting one's febrile imaginings as truth instead, but "wisdom" isn't among them.

K.






I think we should ask what he means by "freedom".




Musicmystery -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 2:45:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether, [Removed a change in member's name]


I would say that without wisdom, freedom allows for bad decision making. Without freedom, could wisdom exist? I would argue that good wisdom makes for not just enjoying freedom more deeply, but establishes good government.

Can I get a "Duh!"

[8|]




Kirata -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 3:15:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I think we should ask what he means by "wisdom".

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false


I think we should ask what he means by "freedom".

You're only truly free when your imagination outranks facts. [:)]

K.





Tkman117 -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 4:02:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I think we should ask what he means by "wisdom".

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false


I think we should ask what he means by "freedom".

You're only truly free when your imagination outranks facts. [:)]

K.




Ask Fido about that, he knows all about "Freedom" [:D]




TheHeretic -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 6:25:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm wise enough not to buy into false dilemmas, and I'm free enough not to have to choose.



This




BamaD -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 7:25:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think we agree that we need both.

I think we should ask what he means by "wisdom".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false

There are several words that could be applied to denying historical fact and promoting one's febrile imaginings as truth instead, but "wisdom" isn't among them.

K.




Perhaps but I wouldn't ask such questions due to my well know aversion to acrimonious debate.
Sarcasm for off




joether -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 10:55:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false

There are several words that could be applied to denying historical fact and promoting one's febrile imaginings as truth instead, but "wisdom" isn't among them.


Why not stick to the topic, instead of taking something...WAY OUT OF CONTEXT...?





joether -> RE: Which is more important? (5/22/2014 10:57:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
I think we should ask what he means by "wisdom".
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false


I think we should ask what he means by "freedom".

You're only truly free when your imagination outranks facts. [:)]


Now who would accuse you have having an imagination or facts? [:D]




Kirata -> RE: Which is more important? (5/23/2014 5:39:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false


Why not stick to the topic, instead of taking something...WAY OUT OF CONTEXT...?

I do apologize. You're right. Wisdom has nothing to do with your poll.

K.




Zonie63 -> RE: Which is more important? (5/23/2014 10:04:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

If you were forced to choose one quality or the other for America?

A seemingly easy question,,,,,


Interesting question to ponder. I suppose at one time, when humans existed in a state of nature, we were living in total freedom, but ostensibly had to develop the wisdom to build a civilization at some point. I think that we're wise enough to know that total freedom is not an option. Perhaps true wisdom comes from knowing where the proper balance should be in a given society, as to how much freedom is "too much" or "not enough" or "just right."





joether -> RE: Which is more important? (5/24/2014 9:05:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false


Why not stick to the topic, instead of taking something...WAY OUT OF CONTEXT...?

I do apologize. You're right. Wisdom has nothing to do with your poll.


Your definition of Wisdom seems to be different from most peoples....

Could you elaborate on your definition of the word?




joether -> RE: Which is more important? (5/24/2014 9:17:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
If you were forced to choose one quality or the other for America?

A seemingly easy question,,,,,

Interesting question to ponder. I suppose at one time, when humans existed in a state of nature, we were living in total freedom, but ostensibly had to develop the wisdom to build a civilization at some point. I think that we're wise enough to know that total freedom is not an option. Perhaps true wisdom comes from knowing where the proper balance should be in a given society, as to how much freedom is "too much" or "not enough" or "just right."


Total freedom is anarchy, right? Where as total wisdom would lead a people to a perfect government. If a good people were to form a good society/government to say, Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, good wisdom would be a requirement. The reason tyrannical governments never work well, is the absence of good, healthy freedoms. But to have those good, healthy freedoms, takes wisdom. But in order to obtain that wisdom, one must have freedom to experiment on productive and destructive moments. It may sound like I'm arguing both sides here, but I would favor wisdom over freedom. Since wisdom gives good freedoms, while acknowledging what destructive freedoms can do.




Kirata -> RE: Which is more important? (5/24/2014 1:57:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Total freedom is anarchy, right? Where as total wisdom would lead a people to a perfect government.

Why would a people possessed of total wisdom require government?

K.





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