Memorial Day and War Crimes (Full Version)

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CobaltRose -> Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/25/2014 10:19:03 PM)

This Memorial Day, if you think about blaming soldiers for the warcrimes made by the US Armed Forces, don't. Most are just trying to do whats right, or just want to get home. They are hardwired to think "if i disobey orders more lives will be at risk". If you are gonna blame anyone for the warcrimes the US does, blame our warmongering government, who make such commands and send men and women to their doom yet have no risk of their own. Its like when people were blaming the soldiers for Vietnam, dont blame them, blame the warmongers. Of course there are some sociopaths in our military, as in life. Sorry im ranting



DaddySatyr -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/25/2014 10:24:57 PM)


I'm sure the citizens of Mai Lai feel differently.

Remember: "I will obey all lawful orders ..."

Soldiers always have the ability ... scratch that ... the duty to disobey unlawful orders.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?



CobaltRose -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/25/2014 11:54:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I'm sure the citizens of Mai Lai feel differently.

Remember: "I will obey all lawful orders ..."

Soldiers always have the ability ... scratch that ... the duty to disobey unlawful orders.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

I know, but when you are out in the field, as i said, if you disobey orders more lives can be at risk. Im not saying its right, im just saying i understand.



TheHeretic -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 12:57:07 AM)

FR

Please don't mark the holiday by trying to lump everyone who has served into some box, and speak for, or of, all of them with a single broad brush. "Hardwired" can be taken as pretty offensive word, by some.




DomKen -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 3:04:40 AM)

I certainly always knew the difference between lawful and unlawful orders.



CobaltRose -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 3:09:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

FR

Please don't mark the holiday by trying to lump everyone who has served into some box, and speak for, or of, all of them with a single broad brush. "Hardwired" can be taken as pretty offensive word, by some.



Let me clarify i want to not lump everyone together. I dont want to shame our troops. I regret making this thread, after thinking about it, it sounds stupid. IM just sick of the fact that our whole armed forces are being blamed for what the government is doing. Im sorry



DaddySatyr -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 3:16:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose

I know, but when you are out in the field, as i said, if you disobey orders more lives can be at risk. Im not saying its right, im just saying i understand.



I've "defended" you, a couple of times on these forums. I've tried to be friendly to you so, please, take what I'm saying not as a personal insult but as talking to you "like a Dutch uncle"; as me, trying to help you, again.

You're being insulting in your insistence in remaining obtuse. I've had something I like to say for quite a long time, now; "Everything after 'but' is bullshit".

When you say: "I know but ..." You're blowing smoke up my ass. You don't know because you keep insisting that what you say is right, when it isn't. You're taking a day when we honor our dead and pissing all over it. Some of us on these very boards have lost family members in the military.

Just taking my example, there's a sliver of evidence that Calley (Spelling?) was ordered to do what he did at Mai Lai. It doesn't fucking matter. Any soldier with a brain knew it was an immoral (and therefore; unlawful) order which should never have been followed.

I would also bring to your attention that history decides what are "war crimes" and what aren't. Around the time of our revolutionary war, I am quite sure the Brits were less than happy with our tactics. Were those men "war criminals"?

You could have picked a better day to try and shit on our country.

Strike one.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?



JstAnotherSub -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 3:22:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose

This Memorial Day, if you think about blaming soldiers for the warcrimes made by the US Armed Forces, don't. Most are just trying to do whats right, or just want to get home. They are hardwired to think "if i disobey orders more lives will be at risk". If you are gonna blame anyone for the warcrimes the US does, blame our warmongering government, who make such commands and send men and women to their doom yet have no risk of their own. Its like when people were blaming the soldiers for Vietnam, dont blame them, blame the warmongers. Of course there are some sociopaths in our military, as in life. Sorry im ranting


WTF does this have to do with a day that we stop to remember those who gave their lives for our freedom?

Shame on you.



DominantWoman65 -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 3:31:04 AM)

If you didn't mean to poke, you would have never sharpened the damn stick.

I will celebrate Memorial Day by remembering, honoring and mourning my brothers and sisters who valiantly gave the ultimate sacrifice.



CobaltRose -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 3:55:25 AM)

Im sorry. I really dont know what i was thinking. Please, mods, lock this thread. I really, really dont know what i was thinking. Im sorry. i am ashamed. OI have someone i know who died in a war by doing something selfless and defending others.

And DS i do think Mai Lai was a war crime and that man was at fault, but i think its wrong for people to blame ALL of the armed forces that mans, or any other soldiers, crimes.That was my true point. And yes, people do, and maybe i was impulsive with making this topic, doesnt make it less wrong.

Remember our fallen and the sacrifice they gave to our country. All gave some, some gave all. Never forget.

I hope i can earn forgiveness.



Musicmystery -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 5:01:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose

This Memorial Day, if you think about blaming soldiers for the warcrimes made by the US Armed Forces, don't. Most are just trying to do whats right, or just want to get home. They are hardwired to think "if i disobey orders more lives will be at risk". If you are gonna blame anyone for the warcrimes the US does, blame our warmongering government, who make such commands and send men and women to their doom yet have no risk of their own. Its like when people were blaming the soldiers for Vietnam, dont blame them, blame the warmongers. Of course there are some sociopaths in our military, as in life. Sorry im ranting

Stupid time to bring it up, and get the ball rolling in the negative direction.

Shut up, honor our soldiers with the rest of us, and bring up the controversial shit tomorrow.



Musicmystery -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 5:02:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose
And DS i do think Mai Lai was a war crime and that man was at fault, but i think its wrong for people to blame ALL of the armed forces that mans, or any other soldiers, crimes.

No one does that, except in your head.




CobaltRose -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 5:06:27 AM)

Please lock this thread. Now. I feel horrible for what i said and want to thankpeople for showingnme i was wrong. Im really sorry.



thompsonx -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 5:32:05 AM)

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I'm sure the citizens of Mai Lai feel differently.

Remember: "I will obey all lawful orders ..."

Soldiers always have the ability ... scratch that ... the duty to disobey unlawful orders.


Cam ne was not exactly a "lawful order" either.






CobaltRose -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 6:03:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I'm sure the citizens of Mai Lai feel differently.

Remember: "I will obey all lawful orders ..."

Soldiers always have the ability ... scratch that ... the duty to disobey unlawful orders.


Cam ne was not exactly a "lawful order" either.





Lawful isnt the same as right btw.

Anyway im really scared. I never wanted to disrespe t our troops. I should have ignored those assholes who were saying all soldiers are war criminals, they were probably trolls. Now everyone hates me because i was too impulsive. I wish this thread never existed. I hate myself for doing this horrible thing.



thompsonx -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 6:42:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I'm sure the citizens of Mai Lai feel differently.

Remember: "I will obey all lawful orders ..."

Soldiers always have the ability ... scratch that ... the duty to disobey unlawful orders.


Cam ne was not exactly a "lawful order" either.





Lawful isnt the same as right btw.

Yeah but we made the cover of time and newsweek.




jlf1961 -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 7:22:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I'm sure the citizens of Mai Lai feel differently.

Remember: "I will obey all lawful orders ..."

Soldiers always have the ability ... scratch that ... the duty to disobey unlawful orders.


Cam ne was not exactly a "lawful order" either.





Lawful isnt the same as right btw.

Anyway im really scared. I never wanted to disrespe t our troops. I should have ignored those assholes who were saying all soldiers are war criminals, they were probably trolls. Now everyone hates me because i was too impulsive. I wish this thread never existed. I hate myself for doing this horrible thing.


I served in the army, and I saw combat.

I find it funny that people who have never been in the military or been under fire have such an easy way of saying American soldiers are baby killers and murderers.

Then you have the people who take that bullshit as gospel and make stupid statements about war crimes and other crap that they know nothing about.

In case you haven't noticed, soldiers have been tried and convicted for war crimes in both the Iraq and Afghanistan theater of operations.

I am going to lay it out for you.

Yes we try to keep collateral casualties to a minimum. However, if I were leading a patrol and started taking heavy fire from a building or group of buildings, you better believe I am calling for support, be it air, chopper, gun ship or arty.

If you are in charge, be you an NCO or officer, you have two jobs. 1) Achieve your objective and 2) Keep you guys alive. And if a 14 year old kid is popping at you with an AK47, I am not going to find his parents to punish his ass.

Now someone brought up Mai Lai and Cam Ne.

Here is a statement by a man who was there.

Here is a further report.

Morley Safer failed to report the full number of marine casualties, or anything about the fact that the Marines operating in the area had received fire from the Cam Ne village complex.

And the poster who brought it up will surely claim other wise.

As for Mai Lai, Calley got convicted in a court martial and the case was forgotten. There is more to that story than what came out in the trail. For one thing, Calley claimed he was following orders, yet none of his superiors were brought up on charges.

Lastly, to my brothers and sisters, be they marines, air force, army or navy, thanks for being on the wall.




dcnovice -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 8:20:26 AM)

FR

[image]http://botyflorist.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/arlingcemetery2.jpg[/image]


ALMIGHTY God, our heavenly Father,
in whose hands are the living and the dead;
We give thee thanks for all those thy servants
who have laid down their lives in the service of our country.
Grant to them thy mercy and the light of thy presence,
that the good work which thou hast begun in them may be perfected;
through Jesus Christ thy Son our Lord. Amen.

BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER, 1928



TheHeretic -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 8:26:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose
I should have ignored those assholes who were saying ...



As near as I can tell, you are the one bringing it up.

The diagnosis seems accurate though. Make sure you move the bbq grill out from under your bridge a little bit. We wouldn't want the carbon monoxide to build up where you sleep.



CobaltRose -> RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes (5/26/2014 8:31:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose
I should have ignored those assholes who were saying ...



As near as I can tell, you are the one bringing it up.

The diagnosis seems accurate though. Make sure you move the bbq grill out from under your bridge a little bit. We wouldn't want the carbon monoxide to build up where you sleep.


What, you think im trolling? Im not im just an idiot. also these trolls were not on this site just to let you know. I wasnt trying to be "edgy" or cause controversy, i just was too impulsive. An impulsive idiot. Im not trolling. Why do people think im trolling. I admitted my mistakes, i said they were wrong. How does that make me a troll? Yes, i should have consequences for being an offensive idiot who while trying to do the right thing by clarifyhing that those who commit war crimes shouldnt be used as an excuse to tarnish the rep of the rest of the armed force, messed up in my message big time.



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