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RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 8:57:28 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

They are POW's


No they aren't

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:00:55 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, not an impeachment on that one, no more than W would be impeached for his breakings, no more than St. Wrinklemeat for treason, the law is unconstitutional anyway, it violates the constitution in several respects.

Nothing is gonna happen, same as the unconstitutional war powers act.


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:02:13 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

He was captured on the battlefield in a US uniform.


Deserting your post (he was on guard duty), leaving your weapon behind, and wilfully looking to "talk to" the enemy does not qualify for "captured on the battlefield".

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:04:56 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		that may be your opinion, but it is not one held by the military in any case, and they sort of are considered the subject matter experts here.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:08:43 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		No, Truckinslave, he was not on guard duty. He left from his quarters.

Telling stupid lies does not help your argument.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:11:02 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

But really he's spent 5 years in a cage already what more should be done to him?


A court-martial is required.
We deserve it.
If he is innocent he deserves it.

And if guilty he merits a firing squad

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:12:47 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Since they say they signed non-disclosure agreements


First I've heard of this..
Can you point me to who required them to sign them, and when?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:15:33 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I think we have to look beyond how he came to be captured,


Exactly wrong.
If he deserted, nothing that follows matters. He's guilty.

Exactly wrong.
If he did not desert, nothing else matters. He's innocent.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:17:08 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		It's been referenced in quite a bit of the coverage regarding their statements. Maybe try getting up to speed on the topic? Try Michelle Malkin's hit piece.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:19:04 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Since it is fairly well established that he intended to come back


That's created from whole cloth.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:21:40 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Since it is fairly well established that he intended to come back


That's created from whole cloth.



Ken does that. Given your claim that Bergdahl left while on guard duty, are you in a position to bitch about it?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:22:46 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		It was not a lie but a mistake (he had completed his shift).
Thanks for the correction

Edit: Not so fast.
When I first researched this, the accounts I found said Bergdahl completed his shift. I made the above correction based on those accounts.
I have since found other accounts that say he walked off while on guard duty.
Which makes a lot more sense. The place from which he deserted was nothing more than a small barren hilltop. Had he not been on guard duty, other guards would have been more likely to stop him. Leaving was a planned act; leaving while on guard duty was easier....
I'm going with the people who say he deserted while on guard duty.

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 6/7/2014 9:40:26 AM >

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:24:55 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		It may have been a mistake, but you seemed perfectly happy to volunteer for the firing squad detail over it.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:30:35 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Something we might want to recall here is another soldier who wandered off his post in the night. That was the guy who went out on his own little killing spree among women, children, and old men sleeping in their homes.

We brought him home to try, rather than turning him over to Afghanistan's judicial process. He was still ours, too.

Link added
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/05/us-usa-afghanistan-trial-idUSBRE9540H720130605


< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 6/7/2014 9:35:12 AM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:35:32 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

"[I]t is always the person not in the predicament who knows what ought to have been done in it,
and would unquestionably have done it too."

Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:40:54 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Reread #102 please.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:43:54 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

you seemed perfectly happy to volunteer for the firing squad detail over it.


Nah.
First: the court-martial.
Even then they'd have to draft me.

Drafted, I would do my duty

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 9:50:20 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Drafted, I would do my duty



That's convenient, considering we ended the draft 40-odd years ago.

A downside of having done that is we wind up with a vast majority of people having precisely zero clue about actually serving in the military.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 10:37:37 AM   
ThirdWheelWanted


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/23/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: HornyDaisy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

In the real world desertion has a definition and so does treason and Bergdahl meets neither. His command can charge him with a bunch of stuff, being UA, dereliction, disobeying but not desertion. It's the sort of stuff he very well might not even get court martialed for in peace time but I expect he will in this case. But really he's spent 5 years in a cage already what more should be done to him?


Desertion is leaving one's post without being relieved, with the intention of not returning. If you're AWOL for more then 30 days, you're automatically classified as being a deserter, but that's more of an administrative action. If you're on a combat footing, this is often much more serious. Desertion during time of war/while under combat conditions, carries a maximum penalty of death. The death penalty is pretty rare now, since the Civil War it's only been carried out once. More commonly it's life without parole.

Going AWOL to "shirk important duty", which includes to miss a combat deployment or while your unit is actively deployed, is also desertion. If he went AWOL, but was captured a minute later, he's still guilty of desertion. If he colluded with the enemy after deserting, those are the sort of extenuating circumstances that gets the charges increased from just a few years to life or worse.

Since it is fairly well established that he intended to come back desertion is off the table.

Going UA and getting captured does not make you guilty of desertion. No one has ever been treated that way before. And it has happened before.

And escaping from captivity twice seems to be indicative of not colluding with his captors.


It's really amusing how you skipped right over the section that makes your statement pointless. Let's try this again.

1) If you go AWOL (Not UA, there's no such thing, especially in the Army) to "shirk important duty", which includes to miss a combat deployment or while your unit is actively combat deployed (being on a small hilltop in Iraq certainly seems to qualify) it's desertion. It doesn't matter if you're gone a minute or a year, it's desertion, this is especially true if he left when he should have been on guard duty. If that's the case, he endangered the entire command in order to leave, which again, is desertion.

2) Regardless of your opinion, if he deserted (see #1 above), even if he was subsequently captured, he is still a deserter. One does not alter the other.

3) If the radio traffic that was reported is accurate, he left his post and traveled to a nearby town to talk to the enemy. That's collusion.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Bergdahl - 6/7/2014 10:59:37 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Considering what we know now about the "prisoner" we got back, we traded four known killers for a deserter that we are going to through in Fort Leavenworth.

But it is true, we negotiated with Yasser Arafat, Iran, Iraq, Democrats and Republicans (yes there are times I consider both political parties in the US terrorist groups.)

Of course, I consider every asshole that takes a hostage to be a terrorist, so local and federal agencies negotiate with them, when as soon as they take a hostage a fair trial should be tossed, and a bullet to be guaranteed.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to ThirdWheelWanted)
Profile   Post #: 200
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