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Who are the terrorists? Pick a date and time. - 6/11/2014 6:05:44 AM

cloudboy

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It is hard to follow the bouncing ball. Please remember the following. I post this in response to threads and posts upset that we are "negotiating with terrorists."

(1) Under Ronald Reagan -- the Taliban were heroes and freedom fighters sponsored, armed, and trained by the USA to fight and oust the Northern Alliance, who were sponsored by the USSR. The US, once having deposed the Northern Alliance, abandoned Afghanistan to the Taliban.

(2) After 9/11, the former freedom fighters of the USA (The Taliban) became the USA's enemies by harboring Al Qaeda operatives.

(3) The old enemy, The Northern Alliance, suddenly became the new "Freedom Fighters" and the USA sponsored them to oust the Taliban.

(4) The USA's main ally in the region, Pakistan, actively sponsors, aids, and abets the Taliban giving their fighters refuge and allowing them to train outside Afghanistan.

(5) The USA gives Pakistan billions of dollars in aid -- and it's safe to say some portion of that aid goes to the Taliban.

(6) Many of the USA's allies in Afghanistan are thugs and thieves who terrorize the local population -- but to us they are freedom fighters b/c they oppose the Taliban.

(7) Rather than consolidate it's victory in the Afghanistan, the USA pulled out its forces and diverted the bulk of its fighting forces to IRAQ. When Bergdahi disappeared, only 60,000 soldiers were left in Afghanistan and his remote outpost served little if any strategic purpose.

(7) The POW swap is small potatoes compared to all of the above.

(8) It would be hard to make all that shit up.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/11/2014 6:21:01 AM >

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RE: Who are the terrorists? Pick a date and time. - 6/11/2014 6:10:59 AM

cloudboy

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One side note. I always found it particularly funny how Donal Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney referred to terrorists there as "foreign fighters" after we destabilized and occupied IRAQ.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/11/2014 6:11:23 AM >

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RE: Who are the terrorists? Pick a date and time. - 6/11/2014 6:12:40 AM

Musicmystery

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Every time I point that out, someone from the right comes along to tell me it's irrelevant.

People aren't interested in the facts of the situation.

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RE: Who are the terrorists? Pick a date and time. - 6/11/2014 6:19:37 AM

cloudboy

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It reads like an SNL skit.

Without partners to work with in the region, the USA is really spinning its wheels. Our cultural literacy abroad gets failing grades.

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RE: Who are the terrorists? Pick a date and time. - 6/11/2014 6:21:41 AM

Musicmystery

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Close. Our interest in caring about that gets failing grades.

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RE: Who are the terrorists? Pick a date and time. - 6/11/2014 6:38:24 AM

tweakabelle

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The US-Pakistan relationship is characterised by expediency and duplicity on both sides.

The US sees Pakistan as a supply route for its forces in Afghanistan, while the Pakistanis see the US as a money and arms bank. Neither has a genuine interest in seeing the other's policy goals being achieved.

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RE: Who are the terrorists? Pick a date and time. - 6/11/2014 7:25:38 AM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

It is hard to follow the bouncing ball. Please remember the following. I post this in response to threads and posts upset that we are "negotiating with terrorists."

(1) Under Ronald Reagan -- the Taliban were heroes and freedom fighters sponsored, armed, and trained by the USA to fight and oust the Northern Alliance, who were sponsored by the USSR. The US, once having deposed the Northern Alliance, abandoned Afghanistan to the Taliban.

(2) After 9/11, the former freedom fighters of the USA (The Taliban) became the USA's enemies by harboring Al Qaeda operatives.

(3) The old enemy, The Northern Alliance, suddenly became the new "Freedom Fighters" and the USA sponsored them to oust the Taliban.

(4) The USA's main ally in the region, Pakistan, actively sponsors, aids, and abets the Taliban giving their fighters refuge and allowing them to train outside Afghanistan.

(5) The USA gives Pakistan billions of dollars in aid -- and it's safe to say some portion of that aid goes to the Taliban.

(6) Many of the USA's allies in Afghanistan are thugs and thieves who terrorize the local population -- but to us they are freedom fighters b/c they oppose the Taliban.

(7) Rather than consolidate it's victory in the Afghanistan, the USA pulled out its forces and diverted the bulk of its fighting forces to IRAQ. When Bergdahi disappeared, only 60,000 soldiers were left in Afghanistan and his remote outpost served little if any strategic purpose.

(7) The POW swap is small potatoes compared to all of the above.

(8) It would be hard to make all that shit up.

A few corrections and additions are in order. Function: Do NOT believe anything you read or hear from our govt.

Prior to 9/11...OBL wanted to hit the US, the Taliban did not. OBL wanted to recruit from the Taliban and because the Taliban wanted his money...they allowed him. OBL got two men.

Al Qaeda translates into 'data base' and became the code word for that which was originally a list of fighters in the Mujaheddin fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. Among those was OBL who eventually was to receive million$ from the CIA.

Al Qaeda became a term the CIA fixed on to give a name to what was NOT a worldwide network of terrorists but a very small and loose affair originally financed by the CIA and many in foreign govts. will tell you...still is, in order to perpetrate the 'war on terror.'

The US special forces and army of some 2000+ men, had OBL totally encircled at Tora Bora only months after we invaded, at the Afghan and Pakistan border and on orders from the GWB white house...deliberately let him pass through to Pakistan. He needed to be alive to perpetrate the 'war on terror.'

side note
(this is a man [OBL] who had acute kidney disease and was treated at a US funded hospital (dialysis) in Yemen in 8/01, and whose relatives were having lunch with GHWB ON 9/11. So OBL died long before our so-called 'mission' at that Pakistan compound as here was man in his 60's as of 9/11 already dying)

Pakistan is and has been both arson and fireman when it come to terrorism in general and what we need from them on Afghanistan in particular. Many will tell you that a Pakistan General in the ISI fed $100,000 to a 9/11 conspirator in Florida that the 9/11 comm. never pursued and as likely because that money was earmarked from US aid.

The US govt. has used what is called 'back channels' throughout history in dealing with govts., terrorists and criminals and what Obama has done particularly as compared to Reagan with Iran and GWB since...is only so much partisan tripe.

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RE: Who are the terrorists? Pick a date and time. - 6/11/2014 8:24:07 AM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

One side note. I always found it particularly funny how Donal Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney referred to terrorists there as "foreign fighters" after we destabilized and occupied IRAQ.

Youre really trying to claim that Iraq was "stable" under Saddam Hussein?

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RE: Who are the terrorists? Pick a date and time. - 6/11/2014 8:25:15 AM

Musicmystery

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Even Bush the First pointed that out.

You think it's stable NOW?

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RE: Who are the terrorists? Pick a date and time. - 6/11/2014 8:33:57 AM

tweakabelle

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One indication of Iraq's current 'stability', or more accurately, the Bush-Blair neo con legacy in Iraq":

"Islamist extremists have seized control of much of Iraq's second biggest city, Mosul, and the surrounding province, freeing more than 1,000 prisoners, sending troops and residents fleeing and crippling Baghdad's efforts to quell a fast-spreading insurgency.

Mosul fell early on Tuesday after four days of advances by the Islamic State of Iraq in Syria (Isis) and rapid capitulation by the Iraqi military, whos"e members reportedly abandoned their posts as the jihadists advanced."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/10/iraq-sunni-insurgents-islamic-militants-seize-control-mosul

If any one is unfamiliar with ISIS, it's an AQ franchise regarded by some as even more extremist than AQ itself. More on this perspective here.

If this represents stability in Iraq, give me anarchy every time.

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RE: Who are the terrorists? Pick a date and time. - 6/11/2014 10:06:14 AM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

It is hard to follow the bouncing ball. Please remember the following. I post this in response to threads and posts upset that we are "negotiating with terrorists."

(1) Under Ronald Reagan -- the Taliban were heroes and freedom fighters sponsored, armed, and trained by the USA to fight and oust the Northern Alliance, who were sponsored by the USSR. The US, once having deposed the Northern Alliance, abandoned Afghanistan to the Taliban.

The Mujahideen, mostly composed of two alliances – the Peshawar Seven and the Tehran Eight. The Peshawar Seven insurgents received military training in neighboring Pakistan and China, as well as weapons and billions of dollars from the United States, United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, and other countries. The Shia groups of the Tehran Eight alliance received support from the Islamic Republic of Iran. Early in the rule of the PDPA government, the Maoist Afghanistan Liberation Organization also played a significant role in opposition, but its major force was defeated by late 1979, prior to the Soviet intervention.

The Tehran Eight became the Taliban, not all of the groups.

The US backed the Peshawar Seven, a moderate alliance and sent weapons and personnel to train them (officially) in Pakistan. When the soviets left, the US basically left these freedom fighters swinging in the wind and the Taliban walked in and took over.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
(2) After 9/11, the former freedom fighters of the USA (The Taliban) became the USA's enemies by harboring Al Qaeda operatives.

(3) The old enemy, The Northern Alliance, suddenly became the new "Freedom Fighters" and the USA sponsored them to oust the Taliban.

Please see the information under your first wrong assumption.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
(4) The USA's main ally in the region, Pakistan, actively sponsors, aids, and abets the Taliban giving their fighters refuge and allowing them to train outside Afghanistan.

(5) The USA gives Pakistan billions of dollars in aid -- and it's safe to say some portion of that aid goes to the Taliban.

Portions of the Pakistani government supports the Taliban, as well as helped hide Bin Laden. Other factions inside the government support other groups. And the whole of the Pakistani government trusts the US about as much as they trust a cobra in a playpen with an infant. You see, the US government deals with India, which have fought a number of border wars with Pakistan.
FYI, the most likely region for a nuclear exchange is between Pakistan and India.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
(6) Many of the USA's allies in Afghanistan are thugs and thieves who terrorize the local population -- but to us they are freedom fighters b/c they oppose the Taliban.

No, the majority of our allies in Afghanistan are businessmen, dealing in the international trade of opium, which becomes morphine and other drugs when sold to pharmaceutical companies, heroin when sold to other less reputable people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
(7) Rather than consolidate it's victory in the Afghanistan, the USA pulled out its forces and diverted the bulk of its fighting forces to IRAQ. When Bergdahi disappeared, only 60,000 soldiers were left in Afghanistan and his remote outpost served little if any strategic purpose.

WTF are you talking about? There was never anything to consolidate. NATO had no area 'pacified,' hell the closest thing to a pacified area was one where there was not a firefight on a daily basis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
(7) The POW swap is small potatoes compared to all of the above.

(8) It would be hard to make all that shit up.

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RE: Who are the terrorists? Pick a date and time. - 6/11/2014 10:23:29 AM

Zonie63

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

It is hard to follow the bouncing ball. Please remember the following. I post this in response to threads and posts upset that we are "negotiating with terrorists."

(1) Under Ronald Reagan -- the Taliban were heroes and freedom fighters sponsored, armed, and trained by the USA to fight and oust the Northern Alliance, who were sponsored by the USSR. The US, once having deposed the Northern Alliance, abandoned Afghanistan to the Taliban.

(2) After 9/11, the former freedom fighters of the USA (The Taliban) became the USA's enemies by harboring Al Qaeda operatives.

(3) The old enemy, The Northern Alliance, suddenly became the new "Freedom Fighters" and the USA sponsored them to oust the Taliban.

(4) The USA's main ally in the region, Pakistan, actively sponsors, aids, and abets the Taliban giving their fighters refuge and allowing them to train outside Afghanistan.

(5) The USA gives Pakistan billions of dollars in aid -- and it's safe to say some portion of that aid goes to the Taliban.

(6) Many of the USA's allies in Afghanistan are thugs and thieves who terrorize the local population -- but to us they are freedom fighters b/c they oppose the Taliban.

(7) Rather than consolidate it's victory in the Afghanistan, the USA pulled out its forces and diverted the bulk of its fighting forces to IRAQ. When Bergdahi disappeared, only 60,000 soldiers were left in Afghanistan and his remote outpost served little if any strategic purpose.

(7) The POW swap is small potatoes compared to all of the above.

(8) It would be hard to make all that shit up.

It seems like a lot of political rhetoric which seems to depend mainly on whose ox is gored and whose side the "terrorist" is on at any given time. Kind of an "Eastasia"/"Eurasia" thing. This shtick is getting so old I'm surprised people still fall for it.

As for "freedom fighters," I'm reminded of George Carlin's comments on that: "If crime fighters fight crime, and fire fighters fight fires, what do freedom fighters fight?"

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