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Pushy vs assertive - 6/16/2014 9:39:57 PM   
riderchick320


Posts: 6
Joined: 8/1/2013
Status: offline 		I recently read a post on the ask a sub page about a sub who laid out her needs and wants in a lot of detail and very early with a guy she wanted to connect with (in her case she knew him in the vanilla sense already). I wanted to post a similar question to here.

I have recently been talking to two Doms and both have disappeared. The first was a man that had previously been a fwb situation in order for me to explore my submissive side. After we stopped because my emotions were involved, he contacted me months later to pursue a vanilla relationship in addition to the D/s relationship. Many times he said things like, "we need to go slow so we can build this into something more." During this time I was the one pushing and trying to organize our time together. It seemed more important to me than to him. With no warning he literally disappeared.

Then I talked to a different Dom. We exchanged numerous emails about our vanilla lives as well as our D/s lives. We discussed meeting to see if we meshed as we'll in person. Although no promises were made he asked me to remove or notify others on my profile to state that I was taken. I was ok with this and did so. However, now he is also gone. Again, I fear that I pushed too hard to make plans. I'm currently on summer vacation and have a lot of free time. I wanted to meet before he started a job and got busy. I know not everyone is on break now, so maybe I'm just being self centered because I'm expecting this to happen on my time schedule.

Overall, I'm wondering if as a Dom is it off-putting for a sub to push to spend time with you? I feel like I've aired my dirty laundry and that was not my intention, but I'd honestly like an opinion about this. I am not looking to hook up with people and I hate dating. It is all anxiety provoking and scary for me. I don't want to play games, ifI like you I want to be able to show that. Is this a D/s quirk I need to balance or just a dating rule in general that I'm missing?

Thanks in advance for your input and for taking the time to read my rambling!
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Pushy vs assertive - 6/16/2014 9:52:52 PM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline 		~FRing it~

It can also be that neither one intended to even meet with you in the first place and were just looking for their internet jollies. Could be they were married, could be they were just bullshit artists, could be they got scared. Who knows.

I personally am the type who likes to meet sooner rather than countless emails. It's easier to determine if any chemistry exists when you can interact with a person on a face-to-fave level.

The thing is to not try to take on their behavior as your responsibility or fault. Id frankly just wash my hands of the both of them and continue on with my search. They aren't worth the time or energy you waste thinking about them.

(in reply to riderchick320)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 6/16/2014 10:06:18 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Sorry that happened to you. The transitory nature of online, along with several other things, are why I tend to recommend meeting people at munches and events, rather than online.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 6/16/2014 10:12:25 PM   
riderchick320


Posts: 6
Joined: 8/1/2013
Status: offline 		Thank you both for your replies. I think I rambled too much because both of your responses were really nice and supportive and make me feel a bit like a kicked puppy who needed some coddling. But I do really appreciate your kind responses. I have put off going to a munch or event because I'm nervous to venture out into that world alone but I may just try it. Thank you!

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 6/16/2014 10:20:22 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Lemme know when you're about to go, and to which one, and I'll see if I can put you in touch with someone I know who's also attending.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to riderchick320)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 6/16/2014 10:22:52 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If they wanted to be with you, they would have made it happen.

Vanilla or kinky doesn't matter. They may use all the right words, but actions are far more important.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 6/16/2014 10:34:21 PM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: riderchick320
<snip>
It is all anxiety provoking and scary for me. I don't want to play games, ifI like you I want to be able to show that. Is this a D/s quirk I need to balance or just a dating rule in general that I'm missing?

Since both Doms have suddenly gone MIA, it sounds to me that SeekingTrinity might be right about neither one intending to follow through for whatever reason(s). You've had an NSA relationship with one already, so he didn't get cold feet in getting together with you, but he may not have been comfortable with your setting the pace. He made it clear he wanted to take things slowly. You, on the other hand, committed the kiss of death, which was to make yourself appear overly eager, available and accessible and didn't give him the opportunity to pursue you.

quote:

Although no promises were made he asked me to remove or notify others on my profile to state that I was taken. I was ok with this and did so.

With the second Dom, putting yourself under a collar of consideration prematurely was a big no-no. He made you "no promises" and you hadn't met one another yet either. You made it far too easy to be *pre-*owned. You're only in your mid-20s, so I wouldn't expect you to know what wheels spin in men's minds. Although you don't wish to play games and prefer to cut to the chase, I'll give you the same advice I would give my own daughter if I had one.

There are solid reasons for going through the dating process before jumping into a serious relationship. You don't have to do any game-playing, and you can conduct yourself in a straightforward manner. But keep in mind that not only do you desire to be owned, you want to be prized. In order to be prized, your suitor must feel that he has "won" you--won your favor, won your affections, and ultimately won your love (later on). This isn't a "game" in the sense of superficiality, mindfucks, and stringing the man you're dating along. It is a critical step in human mating rituals. To circumvent this process will gain you nothing, and instead of your not playing games, you ended up getting played in a sense by not being validated. Count yourself lucky that you were not used sexually and then discarded. Please give this some thought and adjust your approach accordingly.

You say in your profile that you are a strong, independent woman, and without realizing it, you may be intimidating to men and perhaps come off as a tad bit desperate. Step back and give them breathing space. If you're seeking a Dominant man, then let him take the lead.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to riderchick320)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 6/17/2014 8:57:49 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		The other thing to consider is so what if you scared these two off? This is who you are, your natural way of relating- being straight forward and blunt.

If you pretend to be someone else, then the guy you start a relationship with will feel lied to when you eventually stop pretending.

You need someone who likes you as is. And you should not expect to find that in the first guy you talk to. Any more than you would expect to marry the first person you date.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 6/17/2014 8:58:47 AM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Pushy vs assertive - 6/17/2014 11:39:14 AM   
orgasmdenial12


Posts: 613
Joined: 9/18/2012
Status: offline 		I don't think you pushed too hard. The failure rate of online romances is incredibly high, chances are they would have eventually disappeared no matter what you did.

Best way to avoid it is to decline all play or status changes until you've met them in real life - this will sort the wheat from the chaff.

(in reply to riderchick320)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Pushy vs assertive - 6/17/2014 3:41:32 PM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline 		Not a Master, but I've been in this situation before. I got involved with someone who was constantly disappearing and I began to wonder if I was being too pushy by things like "When can I see you again?" and "How've you been?"

Late I came to the conclusion that I was being too hard on myself. If they've expressed interest in a relationship with you and then don't follow through with their actions, the fault is with their lack of interest rather than your supposedly aggressive approach.

Don't beat yourself up because they decided to flake out.

(in reply to riderchick320)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 6/18/2014 6:00:22 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

Not a Master, but I've been in this situation before. I got involved with someone who was constantly disappearing and I began to wonder if I was being too pushy by things like "When can I see you again?" and "How've you been?"

Late I came to the conclusion that I was being too hard on myself. If they've expressed interest in a relationship with you and then don't follow through with their actions, the fault is with their lack of interest rather than your supposedly aggressive approach.

Don't beat yourself up because they decided to flake out.

Along with DesFIP and orgasmdenial12, I'll go along with what RockaRolla posted because I was thinking more along the lines of real time, and on line is a whole other dimensional (non-)reality.

I'll be the first to admit I don't know how M/f relationship or pre-relationship dynamics work.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to RockaRolla)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 6/18/2014 6:56:41 AM   
EligibleOwner


Posts: 51
Joined: 10/16/2009
From: London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

Not a Master, but I've been in this situation before. I got involved with someone who was constantly disappearing and I began to wonder if I was being too pushy by things like "When can I see you again?" and "How've you been?"

Late I came to the conclusion that I was being too hard on myself. If they've expressed interest in a relationship with you and then don't follow through with their actions, the fault is with their lack of interest rather than your supposedly aggressive approach.

Don't beat yourself up because they decided to flake out.


I agree. I think you're over-analysing, and I don't think this is to do with you at all. If a man's interested in dominating you and thinks the two of you could be a good fit, then I think you can only put him off by saying "no". If you're unrealistic in your expectations for some reason, well, I'd expect him to tell you. But I don't see how that would lead to a complete loss of interest. On the contrary, it's an opportunity for him to take leadership in your developing relationship.

All sorts of things are possible – people have crises, and we can never know. But I think these men were probably just wrong for you.


(in reply to RockaRolla)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 6/18/2014 10:30:06 PM   
riderchick320


Posts: 6
Joined: 8/1/2013
Status: offline 		Just wanted to say thank you again for reading my ramblings. I feel a lot better after reading your responses. I'm new to all of this but it's interesting how many of your remarks are things I hear a lot from people in my life.

FieryOpal- it's kind of ridiculous how often I'm told I intimidate men. In terms of my career and reaching life goals I've got it on the ball. I also reached this stage well before my peers, I think they have caught up now though! It's my hope to find someone who is strong enough to not be intimidated. As for appearing desperate I think I do that sometimes as well. Your ideas about the game of dating are interesting and something I'll consider. In my mind it is superficial but I think you have truth to what you say.

As for the comments about over analyzing, well as I like to say, why quit the things you are good at? No, in all seriousness, I do it a lot and I know it's not a good idea. Thank you all for your compassion and straight forward answers. I'm moving on and feel better about doing it.

(in reply to EligibleOwner)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 7/4/2014 10:47:54 AM   
slavewife72


Posts: 1
Joined: 4/2/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EligibleOwner

I agree. I think you're over-analysing, and I don't think this is to do with you at all. If a man's interested in dominating you and thinks the two of you could be a good fit, then I think you can only put him off by saying "no". If you're unrealistic in your expectations for some reason, well, I'd expect him to tell you. But I don't see how that would lead to a complete loss of interest. On the contrary, it's an opportunity for him to take leadership in your developing relationship.

All sorts of things are possible – people have crises, and we can never know. But I think these men were probably just wrong for you.



That's very good advice. But I'm sure you're aware that most women do tend to over-analyse. I'd certainly expect a dominant man to tell me if I had done something wrong but not all do. Maybe if any are reading this they might have the kindness to put any woman they just cut off in the past out of her misery.

(in reply to EligibleOwner)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 7/4/2014 9:22:30 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		You"re a cyber booty call. Sorry. Just how I see it.


_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 7/5/2014 6:57:38 AM   
Bhruic


Posts: 985
Joined: 4/11/2012
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		In this on-line world, I think it is perfectly appropriate to make it clear from the start if you are the type of person who wants a real world contact, and not just an on-line one.

Anyone who claims to be seriously interested in you ought to be willing to meet, perhaps in a public place over coffee or something, as soon as is convenient for both of you.

Just like dating sites... someone who is not serious about meeting you, isn't serious at all.

Reading your above post... if you are a confident and intimidating woman, you will need an even more confident Master. Such a guy will never be intimidated by meeting... in my opinion.

< Message edited by Bhruic -- 7/5/2014 7:00:45 AM >

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pronounced "VROOick"

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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 7/5/2014 7:29:38 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
I'm getting a sneaky suspicion that #2 is actually #1, checking up on you to see if you've moved on or not.

Either he's decided that you should have "waited" for him or you might just expect #1 to resurface.

Obviously, I'm postulating since I don't know the situation all that well.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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(in reply to Bhruic)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 7/5/2014 11:59:30 AM   
smitten77


Posts: 4
Joined: 6/19/2014
Status: offline 		Keep being that confident and sometime intimidating woman!!! Everything you have described can happen in any relationship, vanilla, lifestyle, online, real-life... whatever. The key is to know who you are, what you want, and then to remember those things. If they flaked out and disappeared, consider yourself lucky because they didnt deserve your submission. I agree with what Bhruic said, a strong woman just requires a stronger Master. Always be yourself. If you try to be someone else in an attempt to "keep" someone you are not being honest to yourself or to them. I am very self-confident, intelligent, and can be intimidating and will-full. There are Doms who will appreciate these traits in you, and they do not make you any less submissive. They make you... you!

Smitten

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 7/8/2014 3:35:30 PM   
CloakedProtector


Posts: 70
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline 		riderchick, this is a good question and it can be answered in different ways.

I am not in the Gor scene but if you ask one of them they'll come with a more protocol oriented way of how sub/slaves approach Dominants (Gorean masters). Entering virtual rooms etc it is all kind of regulated there.

In the mind of the Old Leathers respectful and polite dialogue will do and they will normally take the lead from there, up to you to go along or not.

With the new Internet generation it is all some different. Many people don't even think about the fact that there could be some rules in approaching and building up a D/s relationship.
I am sure you must have seen sub/slave profiles with : I want.... You will... etc at a point were you wonder if they miss clicked their role.

Furthermore, some old dochma's such as "The slaves comes to the Master" may, certainly in the beginning, hold some security risk. In general first meetings in crowed public places are advised.

So I would say, just be yourself and volunteer that you are new to this. But in ALL cases remember that nobody is to order you around as long as you didn't submit. You go and stand were you decided.
Being a sub is not equal to being a doormat or weak person, on the contrary the most sub/slaves I know are among the strongest women I encountered.

What troubles me in your story is the request to mark your profile as "taken" (or under consideration) and not contact others.
Let me tell you one thing in relation to that.

Many Masters/Mistresses/Dom(me)s/Tops play the role. They would not stand the competition of others and prefer to isolate the sub/slave ASAP.
Sometimes even with e-mail censoring, profile passwords, etc. Don't go for that. A Dominant must be able to make you want to chose him if there is a match.
Let them work some to see if they are up to your expectations and not just looking for a free cleaning woman with extra's or some quick sex.

Now this being said, the disappearing acts you mentioned could simply be because some people play but when it gets hot and one needs to meet they back out.
This doesn't even happen to be planned or at purpose but sometimes people engage in a road were on the road they suddenly see they shouldn't have or they suddenly detect consequences they didn't anticipate.

Therefore don't take it personal. Statistically there is only a 50% chance it has something to do with you, because there also it is hard to tell people that you want out after you just build up some rapport.

Good Luck next time.



(in reply to smitten77)
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RE: Pushy vs assertive - 7/8/2014 4:44:24 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

Not a Master, but I've been in this situation before. I got involved with someone who was constantly disappearing and I began to wonder if I was being too pushy by things like "When can I see you again?" and "How've you been?"

Late I came to the conclusion that I was being too hard on myself. If they've expressed interest in a relationship with you and then don't follow through with their actions, the fault is with their lack of interest rather than your supposedly aggressive approach.

Don't beat yourself up because they decided to flake out.


Agree. I've never been put off by someone wanting to meet me. It's either they decided they were not your type or they were married or simply playing here online but I don't think it is likely you are at fault.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to RockaRolla)
Profile   Post #: 20
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