Previous Damage! (Full Version)

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MojoDaddyMarine -> Previous Damage! (6/17/2014 1:26:26 PM)

Has any Doms here ever run into a situation where you had to repair the damage of a sub from a previous Dom? The reason I ask, my sub has communicated to me issues I am gravely concerned about. She is into extreme force, extreme pain in the form of beatings and slapping the snot out of her during sexual intercourse. When we discoussed she spoke of the need to own her abuse. She was abused earlier in life, but my biggest concern was her first Dom, who had his own issues, and taught her things such as "Feelings are a weakness" and his history is he ended up abducting her after they split, held her hostage for 8 hours then killed himself. I worry about the emotional damage he left her with, and I see signs that she has feelings of worthlessness due to no one addressing her early abuse, and her first Dom just used these issues to maintain control over her without considering her wellbeing. Would appreciate any input. I already am searching for a good counselor/therapist in this area familiar with those in the lifestyle who may help her grow beyond this. I attempt to do what I can to help her in growing confidence and self esteem, and focus n her personal growth. Any recommendations?




smartsub10 -> RE: Previous Damage! (6/17/2014 1:38:01 PM)

You're doing the absolute right and good thing by trying to find a therapist/counselor who is kink-aware. What you can do is support your sub while she is going through therapy. Be aware, though, that she has years of abuse to work through. That can take years to get beyond.

Good luck to you and your girl.




DarkSteven -> RE: Previous Damage! (6/17/2014 2:37:29 PM)

Good luck. Based on what you've said, is she ready for a D/s relationship right now?




angelikaJ -> RE: Previous Damage! (6/17/2014 4:34:16 PM)

You can not fix her.

Kink Aware Professionals may be able to help you locate a therapist for her.

She may be resistant to that because it is going to cause her to deal with some very painful things.

Is she as committed to you are you are to her?

If pain is her thing, may I suggest an Evil Stick?
That can cause a lot of pain with very little damage, although I am not sure that would satisfy her, since she doesn't seem to be a masochist who seeks endorphins.





AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Previous Damage! (6/17/2014 11:22:00 PM)

fr

The therapist she picks needs to be not only kink aware, but highly experienced in dealing with domestic abuse. In fact, I would argue that someone experienced with domestic abuse issues is much more important than advertising as kink aware, because at the core D/s relationships are still relationships. She might also benefit from a survivor's support group where she can relate to someone with similar past experiences as well as learn about healthy relationship boundaries and building self esteem.

Let's make this clear though: YOU cannot fix her. You're not qualified and even if you were, being in an intimate relationship means you're not the right person to try. What you can do is make sure she gets that help, let her express her emotions openly and be her rock.

Is this the same women you moved in with after a couple of months? And want to limit the friends she communicates with? Bad idea. It's unlikely that she's ready for a serious relationship if she hasn't finished working through these issues. It's even more unlikely she's ready for a D/s relationship. Being abused erodes your sense of self worth and healthy intimacy. She needs a really strong sense of what a good relationship looks like BEFORE she negotiates giving up some of the rights and expectations of a normal vanilla relationship. At best, she's likely to go through her recovery and leave you behind, at worst you're going to be actively causing more damage.

If it were me, my order would be 'no kink or submission until you're well established in therapy and we're confident we can do this without harming you further' and I would expect that to be months or years from now.

The popular myth of the wise leader dominating the vulnerable sub back to health is one of the most dangerous and pervasive in this lifestyle.




angelikaJ -> RE: Previous Damage! (6/18/2014 2:29:40 AM)

Here's the other thing: if she was abused early in life then of course she is going to lie.
She might not get into trouble if she lies.
It may be unacceptable, but it is, at least somewhat understandable.





MojoDaddyMarine -> RE: Previous Damage! (6/18/2014 6:36:17 AM)

Thankyou all for your insight. Athena I think you hit on many key points and I tend to agree with you that there should be no D/s relationship until we understand more clearly what she needs. I clearly feel she is worth all that I can do to help her through this. Is it uncommon to find individuals in submissive role because of something in their lives that they might feel it helps quell or answer? I find it curious that she say she uses the near abusive sexual play as a way to feel it is done by her choice so therefor she feels she is controlling it. She "owns" it. And it is not something that is perpetrated on her. I do notice in her traits that suggest to me that she can be self destructive and I do all I can to control that. I do not allow her choices that will put her at risk.

Again thank you for the insightful words.





Domnotlooking -> RE: Previous Damage! (6/18/2014 7:32:02 PM)

You seem like a nice person, but this screams co-dependent clusterfuck.

Why for example, are YOU searching for an appropriate therapist for this person with her many long standing and complicated emotional problems? Stop finding her problems so "interesting". That is co-dependence 101.

Her problems and their eventual resolution are HER job, not yours. The sad fact is that YOU can't do much for her. YOU are completely in over your head.

The best thing you could do for this person is to show her genuine respect and concern for her situation and back waaaay off.

If it were me, I'd give her the benefit of my opinion in 100 words or less, encourage her to get help, and tell her to lose my phone number until she's had sea change of mental uplift -call it a 6 month minimum lay off.

Pretending you are offering some kind of real assistance when you're yet another person that wants to have sex with her is exactly the kind of mixed message/trust issues that have her rolling in the deep.




smitten77 -> RE: Previous Damage! (7/5/2014 11:26:43 AM)

No matter how she presents it to you, you are still continuing the abuse upon her. As long as she links the interactions between the two of you to her history of abuse, you are just continuing the abuse. She needs serious help, but unless she recognizes that need, nothing that anyone does will be of any help to her. You talked about trying to undo the damage the other Dom did to her... Her abuse and issues started well before him. He just added his own twist to it, and so are you if you believe you are doing what she wants so you go along with it. She needs help, intensive help, and even that may not be able to undo what has been done to her....

Smitten




MojoDaddyMarine -> RE: Previous Damage! (7/6/2014 12:03:55 PM)

Smitten77 I beleive in much of what you say, and that is why I have finally convinced her that she must seek ongoing therapy. This is not just about D/s, she knows she is important to me and I am here for her to help her through. If kink play is just her attempt to "own" her abuse then that makes me part of her abuse and I do not want that. She has agreed, even though as she says she feels it will open a can of worms, then so be it. I am in for the long haul!




alumina -> RE: Previous Damage! (7/6/2014 11:32:55 PM)

I am so sorry to hear what your submissive endured under the care of her previous Dominant. I know that death and suicide of a partner alone is a difficult thing to get past.. How long as it been since it happened? From experience, I can understand the feeling of worthlessness she seems to be going through. When I was in my first relationship (only semi kink and I was young) the person I was in love with left this world by their own hands as well, and I felt worthless, scared, lost.. I couldn't understand how I could have meant so little, or how I couldn't have helped... Or how I couldn't have stopped what happened.. I felt worthless, useless.. Now, having experienced that, I can not imagine what your girl has gone through with the emotional, mental and physical abuse. Some of the ways that I was able to begin repair when I found my first M/s relationship later in life was to journal... journal for myself, and my Dom was allowed to read it each day.. He wasn't allowed to get angry, or judge what was on those pages.. but instead accept it as a small view into my mind each day. If you are curious about certain things (Like where this need for extreme force came in)...then give her a specific topic for the evening, and say two or three pages on it.. Tell her to dissect her feelings. It may help you with finding out more about what's going on in her mind.. I am sorry you are having to pick up the pieces from such a tragedy. I know it must be hard, but you are a wonderful person for helping put her back together.

a




LafayetteLady -> RE: Previous Damage! (7/7/2014 11:36:33 AM)

Of course a can of worms is going to be opened in therapy. She will have to stop thinking she "owning" her abuse through her kinky relationship with you and have to actually gace those past traumas head on and deal with them. Its also possible that through therapy she will find herself no longer desiring any BDSM and she need assurance that's ok as well.




booklover13 -> RE: Previous Damage! (7/7/2014 11:52:00 AM)

FR

This woman sounds damaged to the point where she needs intensive care in an institution with a team of mental health professionals.

Many, many men in their 50s and 60s just love the idea of having young pussy - even if it's attached to a crazy mind.

Just my [sm=2cents.gif]




CloakedProtector -> RE: Previous Damage! (7/8/2014 6:30:12 AM)

MojoDadyMarine, yes I have 3 such experiences. I read the replies to your initial post and I tend not always to agree.

I'll start with the easy one. A BDSM couple I know had an accident in play with a male. During suspension a hook came out of the roof and the male who had thin ropes attached to a number of testicle ring piercings had all 4 rings pulled through his skin.
The man didn't want a doctor or the hospital (he was married and his sessions were non-disclosed so to say). He was a regular play partner and this was an accident and therefore isn't comparable to situation you described.
The man kept coming and was able to get over it himself, age may have been a factor. Hiding the damage at home will have been the hardest part.

The other case is one of abuse of the negotiation. I young sub visited a certain Dominant for the first time (she was not new to BDSM). the negotiation was around suspension but all forms of piercing, knife-play, fire, etc had been excluded.
Yet, when suspended and helpless the man pierces one of her nipples with a ring, attaches a long thin rope to it (probably with the intend to attach the other end somewhere) and then falls over something ripping the ring and splitting the nipple.
I his panic he apparently left her suspended, pulled the session over time so she couldn't pick-up her kid at school and finally send her away blaming her. Now physically it was taken care of and of course you can, and probably always will, be able to see the traces (a permanent reminder).
However mentally we are dealing with a case of non-solicited abuse. Also her great reluctance for help, certainly from therapist. "Therapis"t is the LAST WORD they need to hear. The word "therapist" implicitely means to them: You are the problem, you need therapy, not the other guy.
However it may have been a way to go but you can't force people and as a single mom there was no one in her life that could exercise some pressure to make her go to one. That makes it particular difficult as one of the therapists tasks will be to make them see that they are/were NOT the problem. She stopped BDSM all together and found that in that way every potential future risk was thereby gone. She never saw a therapist (as far as I know).

The third case is more severe because it is comparable with the one you describe. A young woman is the partner of a motor gang guy. He is sadist, she is masochist. All goes well for more then a year until during a session, for no apparent reason, he looses control and beats her so hard that she ends up several weeks in coma in the hospital. She never saw the guy again and all paths to him closed. However, the physical thing wasn't the problem she said because at a certain point you pass out and the awakening pains out of coma are nothing compared to those in sessions.
It was the psychological side, and most of all the fact that he left her. She explicitly said she would have no doubt forgiving him because she was aware of the risks in that kind of game. It didn't even keep her from further BDSM activities but, strangely, she became Domme!
She practices ball-kicking, male humiliation and denigration, extreme piercing and knife-play, etc and her sub side in the pain area was reduced to whipping, caning, etc but no more torture-grade stuff. That is how I met her and she asked for whiping because she knew that I am not in torture etc I am Dominant not a sadist and that gave her a safe feeling.

What is needed here however, and I think it is the same in the case you are presenting, is closure. The events you described have created a "Gestalt" and that must come to completion. As long as it doesn't it will surface with less or more severe consequences.
The best chances for resolution of a (and since she was abused before) multiple "Gestalts" are to resolve them quickly. If they fade-away it is difficult to find and identify them, make them surface and resolve them. It is not because they are no longer at the surface that they are gone. Fritz Perl (and his wife) clearly demonstrated that in the surroundings of their "Gestalth" theory. So time is your enemy here.

She had some brain washing (Feelings are a weakness) but she also seems to have an extended level of awareness of the situation in that she expresses the need to own her abuse.
That is an IMPORTANT statement because she has qualified the facts as "abuse". With "owning it" she differentiates between abuse that she likes (how strange that may sound to you) and which is the abuse that she solicits/solicited (like a masochist solicits pain) and the abuse that she didn't solicit (like others you described). She actually says: I can handle all the abuse physically, even the abuse I didn't solicit, but I can not handle the unsolicited abuse mentally.

So here there will be some need to settle the score, actually she wants to own that abuse in retrospect and the psyche will restore, that "Gestalt" will have come to a resolution. Possibly because she is in a situation where other abuse that happened to her is out of her reach for restoration.
Now, the second number of events (her needs for violent sex) may have been triggered by her past abuse and I would not be surprised if BOTH "Gestalts" will solve together. Thing is to find out what event is needed to accomplish that.

Can she have a BDSM relationship? From what you write, yes. She clearly is aware of the difference between solicited and unsolicited and she has a head-rule for solicited, which is the abuse she gets in BDSM.
If you fall from your horse it is best to immediately climb back on it if you can otherwise you may have trouble even riding again. I think this applies to the BDSM part.
Nature will protect her from practising BDSM is that would be not good for her. It is just the SHE must ask for it, nobody should force her into it, also not emotionally guide her into it. It MUST come from her.




MojoDaddyMarine -> RE: Previous Damage! (7/8/2014 6:33:03 AM)

Her first Dom was with her some 12 years back when they started her relationship with him. It has been over a decade since he killed himself, so this was not recent. She has opened up to me and we keep no secrets between us, and I know about all her darkest secrets. Primarily we know we are first and foremost in a relationship, and we will remain together. I choose to not allow certain elements of kink at this time unless I know it is done in a healthy manner for her. Booklover 13, this is not a situation where this old man is desperate to hang on to young tail. I can find all the young pussy in the world, she is loved and cherished and I am devoted to her as she is to me, and I would never walk away from her just because she needs help and concern. Unfortunately too many Doms in the community search out submissives with such issues to enable them to maintain a level of control over their lives through abuse and I for one refuse to damage her further in that manner when we have the opportunity to enjoy a long life together in a healthy relationship by working through this together.




ASimpleTailor -> RE: Previous Damage! (9/25/2014 9:11:06 PM)

Wow, brother. You might as well buy yourself a 747, because you can fill that sonofabitch up with that kind of baggage.

If you're in it for the long haul, you have quite a road ahead of you. Often times, things like that can't be fixed. Or it takes literally decades to fix. But if you are willing to tow the line on it, then by all means, go all in.

The unfortunate part, and I hate to even mention it but I've seen it before, is you are probably going to reach a point where you won't be able to trust this girl, through no fault of your own, mind you, but she will either lie or bend or hide the truth and that will be the beginning of the end.

I wish you all the luck in the world. You're going to need it.




satw -> RE: Previous Damage! (9/26/2014 4:20:18 PM)

If it has been over a decade, it seems to me that opening up to you is a sign she's ready for facing her past in a more proactive way. I agree with others here that it is probably best not to include any kink involving pain until she's fully dealt with what happened. That said, I'm wondering if it isn't like some rape victims, who become promiscuous after the rape for a period of time. It's partly about controlling your own sexuality, and partly because the victim feels undesirable - rape has that effect. By becoming promiscuous, the victim addresses both issues, and can then move on past being a victim and into a healthier headspace. It may be that your sub, by "owning" her pain, has in fact been doing what she needs to move past the rejection she must have felt by her previous Dom's suicide. A professional should be able to help her move past that. I wish you both the best; and I wish to add that it is heartening and inspiring to read your devotion to her, and willingness to do what is necessary to help her. She is fortunate to have you; she must be a special person indeed to have inspired such care from you.

I'm not sure why everyone seems to think she is, or will be, dishonest. If she has had trouble opening up, that's one thing, but I don't see a strong case for some of the gloom-and-doom comments I've seen here on this thread.




FieryOpal -> RE: Previous Damage! (9/26/2014 8:05:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: satw

I'm not sure why everyone seems to think she is, or will be, dishonest. If she has had trouble opening up, that's one thing, but I don't see a strong case for some of the gloom-and-doom comments I've seen here on this thread.

Just FYI, this isn't the first thread where these issues have been raised before, where OP had explained that his nearly 20 years younger sub had moved in with him after only a couple of months of dating (so they therefore hadn't had much time getting to know one another better).

In that "Naked" thread, OP wanted transparency in their relationship and his sub was not forthcoming about it and had exhibited questionable behavior and/or conduct.




satw -> RE: Previous Damage! (9/27/2014 9:09:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: satw

I'm not sure why everyone seems to think she is, or will be, dishonest. If she has had trouble opening up, that's one thing, but I don't see a strong case for some of the gloom-and-doom comments I've seen here on this thread.

Just FYI, this isn't the first thread where these issues have been raised before, where OP had explained that his nearly 20 years younger sub had moved in with him after only a couple of months of dating (so they therefore hadn't had much time getting to know one another better).

In that "Naked" thread, OP wanted transparency in their relationship and his sub was not forthcoming about it and had exhibited questionable behavior and/or conduct.



Thank you so much. I kept feeling I was missing something, and clearly I was, but it wasn't in this thread. I appreciate you clearing up my confusion.




CountDrackula -> RE: Previous Damage! (9/27/2014 10:07:55 AM)

fieryopal, already said,you cannot fix her - You cannot.there is in theory a minuscule chance
People are generally destined to live out past and future abuse, bar some fortuitous blind luck.
They are simply drawn to those who offer that which they seek
Abuse is very common at various points in any relationships typically 10-20%, perhaps even higher for the severe forms

It will not help made up people often already in a relationship sending these people mail along the lines id punch your face and drag you across the floor and so on... These mails can be almost accepted as the normal, or to add gravitas to i am a domly dom, which is why some people have abhorrent views of BDSM, and i personally to not like many elements associating with the lifestyle although i run into trouble for stating my views, curious is that nit.

As for predators, I have no time for those who exploit the weak and vulnerable; my thoughts on these matters are well known everywhere - but some of the weak and vulnerable wish this.
This ilk will try and maintain there ludicrous expectations and horrific behaviors is the accepted normal.

I think that is all I shall say on this one and good luck with your relationship and support

Although, I certainly cannot get all the young pussy as you eloquently termed it, nor would I want it. nor would I lead others too believe I am beating the fanny(UK term) of me with a stout stick such is my desirability





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