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What's The Difference? - 11/23/2004 5:13:45 AM   
SentForu


Posts: 303
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Middle Tennessee
Status: offline 		This thought, comes from another thread here in the "Ask a Mistress" section. I've read about SOME Mistresses asking for "tribute" before a first time meeting. Now, this isn't the ProDommes. They seem to do this, because of things like, being stood up, subs only wanting sessions, instead of relationships, using it as a weed out tool, etc etc. JUST in my opinion, I can't say I agree with it. But, whatever floats your boat.

This made me wonder, why is it that it seems to be only the Mistresses/Dommes who require this? I've never seen a sub, Dom, Master, etc asking for such beforehand. I'm sure, we get just as much game playing as the Dommes do. So, what's the difference.

If this has already been covered in another thread, would Ms. Proud please care to direct me to the proper link? I don't remember reading about it, and not exactly sure what to search for...lol. Another little tid bit, this is NOT intended to start flames, just to get different ideas. Thanks in advance.

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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/23/2004 5:45:59 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Access Denied

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/15/2005 11:31:11 PM >

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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/23/2004 7:52:13 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

If this has already been covered in another thread, would Ms. Proud please care to direct me to the proper link?


There are several threads on financial domination, tributes, money slaves, etc. but they all involve Dommes. I don't recall any about subs and Doms being the recipients of such. Maybe someone else does. The only thing that might be relevent is that a lot of Doms financially support their subs.

< Message edited by proudsub -- 11/23/2004 7:56:54 AM >

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proudsub

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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/23/2004 9:10:55 AM   
SentForu


Posts: 303
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Middle Tennessee
Status: offline 		Thanks, I was just wondering why it seems as if it's only the Dommes who are into this sort of thing. I could never see myself interested in it. But, was curious what the connection might be. Maybe, it's a psychological thing?

< Message edited by SentForu -- 11/23/2004 9:16:01 AM >

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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/23/2004 9:20:06 AM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		Actually Myra, the financial domination thing with male dominants is VERY alive and kicking. HOWEVER, it is usually catered once again, to male subs. It usually centers around humiliation, cucking, and pimping. To see a very good example of this. . .just go to the niteflirt website. Almost all of the "masters" have a financial domination line. . .and if you look at their feedback, they *do* get a lot of calls. There are also websites dedicated to male dom/male sub financial domination. I guess the bottom line (even if it stinks) is women just don't have to pay for it period.

Jules

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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/23/2004 11:08:20 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Jules,

One other Male Dom / female sub financial domination should be considered. And if added to the mix I think it's accurate to say it is much more prevalent then any Domme dominated financial slavery. I believe there are a lot of woman being financial dominated by men. But these men refer to themselves as Pimps instead of calling themselves Doms.

On inspection I'd say a Pimp / "whore" dynamic has many if not all the elements of D/s relationship. The Pimp controls the "whore" and ALL the money she/he makes. I'd be willing to bet that throughout the world, male Pimps far outnumber the "Financial Service Dommes". And although many of the whores are not in their situation voluntarily, many are and treat their Pimps as a slave would a Master in this lifestyle.

beth was very curious about this subject. And wanted to determine if within the lifestyle there were any advertised Dom's for female slaves. So far her internet search has not found one "Pro Dom".

We frequently attend a club party in LA held at a local "Pro-Lifestyle" club. The club is very successful. It has 11 Pro Doms, 5 switches, and 5 Pro subs on the menu, and is always searching for 'new talent'. It's strictly BDSM - no sex. But you can't order a male heterosexual Pro-Dom from their menu! So I figured it was simply an oversight and I tried to apply for the job. They wouldn't even give me an application! I think this is obviously prejudicial, and I think that all the Doms from this site should join me in a class action suit.

And ever the business person I'm curious. If such a place existed where females could go to 'rent' a heterosexual male, as a Dom or sub, for strictly BDSM play would they go?

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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/23/2004 11:15:51 AM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		I'm familiar with some of the area "pro dungeons" simply because I need options for sessions. One in my area (I can give you the name via email if you really want to know) does on occassion feature heterosexual male dominants. Why do they not get the marketing and "featured position" like the Mistresses and pro subs do? Simple. There is no demand for it. From a business stand point, why pay money to market/advertise something that has no demand? And as you know, it is very expensive to buy ads in industry magazines and such. The male dominants are somtimes on the webpage of that particular dungeon, but other than that I'm sure they aren't getting marketed. How many female submissives do you think are willing to pay for play time with a male dominant ESPECIALLY when they are bombarded with the same offers for free?

Jules

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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/23/2004 11:21:19 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

why pay money to market/advertise something that has no demand?


Are you implying Male Doms are cheap and common?! Ha!!

Of course that's the right answer, supply and demand. If a pretty woman walks up to 10 males walking down the street, hand them a flogger and ask them to use it on them and 7 out of 10 will agree. (I think the current acceptable ratio of gay men to straight is 3 out of 10 accounting for the 3 turn downs.)

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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/23/2004 11:33:38 AM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		LOL Merc!!!

I wasn't trying to imply that male dominants are cheap and common at all. From a business point of view. . .it just doesn't sell. I'm sure there are a lot of things/people that are uncommon and valuable that still don't sell. . . but we appreciate them none the less.

Jules

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A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/23/2004 11:47:16 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

beth was very curious about this subject. And wanted to determine if within the lifestyle there were any advertised Dom's for female slaves. So far her internet search has not found one "Pro Dom".

They're certainly a minority, but they are indeed out there. A good deal of them cater exclusively to other men and don't do sessions with women. I've seen ads in DDI for male pro-doms before and after a quick glance, Domme.com has a section for men with 11 links but only 7 of those are active. Whether or not such a person could do this full time and make a living at it is another matter entirely.

quote:

We frequently attend a club party in LA held at a local "Pro-Lifestyle" club. The club is very successful. It has 11 Pro Doms, 5 switches, and 5 Pro subs on the menu, and is always searching for 'new talent'. It's strictly BDSM - no sex. But you can't order a male heterosexual Pro-Dom from their menu! So I figured it was simply an oversight and I tried to apply for the job. They wouldn't even give me an application! I think this is obviously prejudicial, and I think that all the Doms from this site should join me in a class action suit.

Perhaps you can get the law firm of Dewey, Cheetham & Howe interested in taking on the case. I'm sure they would jump at the chance for the notoriety!

~stef

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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/30/2004 11:48:17 AM   
subgreg


Posts: 50
Joined: 11/29/2004
Status: offline 		The question is, how many of those men would allow the woman to use the flogger on them? I agree though that it is supply and demand, and this problem cuts across vanilla boundaries. There will always be more men willing to pay to interact with a woman than the other way around. In women payingfor play situations, do you think there would be more male Doms or subs?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/30/2004 12:04:01 PM   
MistressFire70


Posts: 378
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		In the het vanilla world: Men control the money and women control the sex. This isn't how it SHOULD be, necessarily, but how it is in this society.

For a Male Dom/fem sub Ds relationship, it will, most likely, be centered about sex and the Male getting it when and how he wants (and why shouldn’t he, if this is a defining characteristic of the Ds dynamic?). The female give this up the control that she has over sex eagerly as part of the power exchange. The sex control is usually one item in the scheme of the entire relationship, but it CAN stand alone as “kinky sex”.

For a Fem Dom/male sub Ds relationship, the male can give up control of his money as a form of power exchange in a very similar manner. Again, the financial control is usually one item in the scheme of the entire relationship, but it CAN stand alone as “financial domination”.

So given the above statements, why would a Male Dominant want money from a fem sub when the male controls the money anyway (in this society). And, why would a Fem Dom give up her sexual power to the man, giving it to her slave anytime and every time he wants? Giving up what you have control over in the vanilla world to your Dominant partner is what the power exchange is all about.

It works the same way in the gay and lesbian world; it’s just that there aren’t two genders to the relationship. Some control the money and some control the sex. Each chooses to take control or give up control of each item in the Ds dynamic.

Fire


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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/30/2004 12:26:51 PM   
ModeratorThree


Posts: 949
Status: offline
quote:

I dont see how it could be a real kink, if some one would like to enlighten me?


There are many many very powerful and wealthy men that desire to give up control, sometimes the only thing they can give up is money.


quote:

But then again, isnt it odd that its mostly just "dominant" women who ask for tribute? That you must "earn" (rather pay for) their time?


I have seen this practiced by male Dom's as well, maybe it is not as common.. but then again, sadly it would seem that men tend to be the majority in regards to wealth and power.. could explain it.

Also, while there are literally thousand's of profiles claiming financial domination, most really are not Dommes at all. I think the majority know this. It is something they read and thought, hey I can get someone to pay my bills.. and they insert the words "financial domination"- "tribute"- and the like. Much similar to horny men who think hey.. maybe I can get sex and they slap on the "Master" tag.

As with any relationship, one must always investigate and get to know someone before making any kind of commitment, be it financial or otherwise. Common sense is one attribute most need in this lifestyle.

Mod3

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/30/2004 12:32:46 PM   
ModeratorThree


Posts: 949
Status: offline
quote:

beth was very curious about this subject. And wanted to determine if within the lifestyle there were any advertised Dom's for female slaves. So far her internet search has not found one "Pro Dom".



www.eros.com I have seen them there on many occasions..


Here is a rather amusing one in San Fransisco

http://www.eros-guide.com/files/ouchy1.htm

..::laughs::..


Mod3

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RE: What's The Difference? - 11/30/2004 12:51:36 PM   
Nvernilla


Posts: 303
Joined: 10/1/2004
Status: offline 		It seems to me that this probably has some relation to our mainly patriarcal society. Mike

(in reply to SentForu)
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RE: What's The Difference? - 12/5/2004 2:09:38 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		reading different peoples opinion
I have to make My opinion known.

associating either Pro Dommes or Pro Doms
to the sex trade is degrading. There are
true Pros out there whom Dominant financially
and it has NOTHING to do with sex in any way.
besides associating ANY money with sex is illigal
in the USA except for the few licenced brothels
in a few States that Im aware of.
This is not to say there are those whom are
preditors with in Our Lifestyle and abuse Our
lifestyles ways both from the Dominant side
and the submissive side in the Arts of Domination
be it financial or other applyed art and take
advantage of a business proprosition availed
to any with a little savvy. But to lump all together
into the negitive responces I see here is simply
not fair to those whom are true to their Lifestyles ways.
Ive known Good Pros whom excel at Their practice
legally and honestly and I have known those whom
corrupt it and give it a bad name to the point that
even others with in the lifestyle feel it is wholly corrupt.
Its not. We are ALL ADULTS here and no matter what
there is presented to anyone on line the old saying goes
theres a fool born every moment and a person out there
to take the fools gold. Thats the lesson that all should
follow and learn and understand this is not just a lifestyle
problem but a Integral and Honor one where people have
learned to become unscrupulous in applying their trades
for the love of money and not the love of their lifestyle.
Just this past week a group of 11 people were busted for
calling people out of the phone books and requesting donations
to a pobox from unsuspecting folks saying they were from
United Way just because they knew that United Way was
here helping during the hurricanes and tried to make a
gain off of others misery. No non profits call over the phone
asking for donations but there was over 27 thousand dollars
collected by this group befor they were caught and shut down.
And that was just the funds they could find. Who knows how
much or how many folks were biked out of their funds not to
mention the United Way that will suffer because of other peoples
ignorance. This is no differant in that most people choose to do
what they do for what ever reason in order to feel better about
their selfs or to feel how they desire to feel in the giving or Dominance.JMO

(in reply to Nvernilla)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: What's The Difference? - 2/15/2005 6:00:56 PM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressFire70
Each chooses to take control or give up control of each item in the Ds dynamic.


This is an interesting idea -- the difference between male subs and female subs is that female subs give up control of sex (a power given to them by vanilla society) and male subs give up control of money (a power they have disproportionate to women).

Of course male subs don't gain or lose control over sex... because sexual permission comes from women - the ability to say Yes or No. Men are assumed to be always switched 'On'.

Do male subs lose control over money? Certainly not completely - but dommes requiring tribute makes sense when this dynamic is considered.

In many ways the D/s dynamic described by MistressFire is practiced in vanilla society. Women are pressured to use sex as a lure or a hook to hold a man. And there is a residual tradition of a man paying for dates, buying gifts, the engagement ring etc. Both male and female exchanging some of their traditional power to woo the other.

I am bothered by a nagging feeling that the dynamic involving male subs and the dynamic involving female subs is more complex than this. But I think it certainly plays a role.

(in reply to MistressFire70)
Profile   Post #: 17
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